Glaive Toss vs Barrage

[rickhunterr]

Now that the expac has been out for a while, do people still see Glaive Toss as being better dps than Barrage. I ran with 2 hunters with higher Ilvls than I had (~2pts) they did 5.25 million on Feng with glaive while I did 7.5 million with barrage. Now is the reason they say Glaive is better only because of movement?

[deepjazz]

you need to channel barrage so it means u cant throw off any shots while your doing that.. with claive you just hit the button and keep on doing your rotation.

I thought the same, I would be doing so much more aoe with barrage but once i tried out claive i noticed my dps went up by alot.

some hunter doing less dmg doesnt mean it's just because they are using claive instead of barrage, might be something wrong with their rotation.

[eschatological]

Barrage would win on fights with lots (I'm thinking 3+) of adds persisting for lots (probably at least 2m) of time. I can see it being useful for Wind Lord, maybe - roll a SrS via ISSon the whole group, then unload a barrage, proc ToTH, 3 20 focus MSs.

The problem is, those fights are few and far between.

[Tehterokkar]

Barrage would win on fights with lots (I'm thinking 3+) of adds persisting for lots (probably at least 2m) of time. I can see it being useful for Wind Lord, maybe - roll a SrS via ISSon the whole group, then unload a barrage, proc ToTH, 3 20 focus MSs.

The problem is, those fights are few and far between.

Glaive Toss is still better, Glaive toss is a trick shot, you have to know how to use it in AoE situation.


Target the add that is the furthest away from you, use Glaive Toss, Glaives hit all the mobs(read: the entire AoE Pack) in their path. Not to mention that you can use Cobra Shot to get more focus for more Multi-shots if you were to use Glaive Toss instead of Barrage.

[Deleted]

Target the add that is the furthest away from you, use Glaive Toss, Glaives hit all the mobs(read: the entire AoE Pack) in their path

Tricky to see/target sometimes wich mob is furthest away when they are all packed up, especialy if they are moving and the damn hitboxes are small and the bars are constantly moving up...

Fortunately the Glaives are fairly OK to hit mobs very close to your main target but quite honestly in an already packed-up rotation with lots of things to keep track, i simply cannot afford the time it requires sometimes to target exactly the furthest mob just for 1 ability every 15 seconds.

I still love the glaives though. Good damage, splash damage, OK cooldown, low focus cost... nothing not to like.

[Carni]

Tricky to see/target sometimes wich mob is furthest away when they are all packed up, especialy if they are moving and the damn hitboxes are small and the bars are constantly moving up...

Fortunately the Glaives are fairly OK to hit mobs very close to your main target but quite honestly in an already packed-up rotation with lots of things to keep track, i simply cannot afford the time it requires sometimes to target exactly the furthest mob just for 1 ability every 15 seconds.

I still love the glaives though. Good damage, splash damage, OK cooldown, low focus cost... nothing not to like.

Pick a mob to the left or right, and when able, meaning you wont kill yourself, or pull more mobs or fucking something up, disengage to the opposite side. If you angle yourself right you will hit most of the mobs considering they usually always move into a semi circle around the tank.

[eLPachuukko]

Barrage = Pve
Toss = PvP

pretty much it.

[Divinespeed]

Barrage = Pve
Toss = PvP

pretty much it.

No, please delete this, it is completely false and ignorant.

[Speedlance]

Barrage would win on fights with lots (I'm thinking 3+) of adds persisting for lots (probably at least 2m) of time. I can see it being useful for Wind Lord, maybe - roll a SrS via ISSon the whole group, then unload a barrage, proc ToTH, 3 20 focus MSs.

The problem is, those fights are few and far between.

I wouldn't call it a problem, it means you will actually change specs every now and then to be competitive on certain fights, is't that a good thing?

[Migrin]

Barrage = Pve
Toss = PvP

pretty much it.

Sorry but that is just not true.. Using Barrage over glaives is a dps decrease in both single and multy target situations.

[soulcrusher]

hoppe suisse!

[MonsieuRoberts]

You could always just interchange between the two like we're supposed to.

[Woobels]

You could always just interchange between the two like we're supposed to.

Very little reason to though.

[Nangz]

Very little reason to though.

I recently watched a video of Method, while I don't have anything to back it up besides the video, the hunter PoV on Wind Shaper used barrage. You can see the video here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Fhzt8EqlE

Though it is very odd that he takes fervor over the other two, especially since, as I understand it, thrill of the hunt is much better for aoe than all the other options.

On pure single target though, its almost undenyable that glaive toss wins.

[Woobels]

I recently watched a video of Method, while I don't have anything to back it up besides the video, the hunter PoV on Wind Shaper used barrage. You can see the video here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Fhzt8EqlE

Though it is very odd that he takes fervor over the other two, especially since, as I understand it, thrill of the hunt is much better for aoe than all the other options.

On pure single target though, its almost undenyable that glaive toss wins.

Hence the very little reason There's hunters who like it on Will too but I disagree with that myself.

[Deleted]

Hence the very little reason There's hunters who like it on Will too but I disagree with that myself.

If it wins on a fight, that's more than enough reason to take it into consideration.
That's just how talents are today, situational and dependent on boss fights.

I get increased DPS with Barrage and Thrill aswell, but there would be no way I would even consider any of the 2 for any other boss fight.

[Snassern]

Guess i better respecc to Glaive again then. :3

[eschatological]

Wind Lord standard strat is to pile the boss and the 5 unCCed adds on top of each other and AOE your heart out with a main focus target for "automatic damage" (for SV on this fight, LnL procs, cobra shotting, etc). I can see Barrage being a DPS gain on this fight, but I think it's probably the only fight this tier so far.

Also, iirc, the "cleave" damage of glaive toss on secondary targets is much lower than the cleave damage on secondary targets from Barrage - but I might just be misremebering that. GT does about double the damage of an AS with both glaives hitting, so it's 1/4th of that for all secondary targets, or half an AS on each, and that's if you hit them all, GT's pathing is very narrow as opposed to Barrage and mobs are rarely lined up so neatly. It's something 320% *weapon damage* to secondary targets in Barrage (640% to the main target). I'm currently using the bow off Normal Will of the Emperor, so that's 8790-16326 damage, which makes the primary hit 56,256-104,486, plus ~28-52k per secondary target (about half an AS to a full AS, unbuffed). I'm not exactly sure how you calculate the damage of an rAP scaling attack like GT against a weapon dmg attack like Barrage, but it seems like Barrage can be competitive on sustained, 5+ target AoE.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

what I don't understand, is why barrage/powershot are ooften considered better for high aoe situations (many adds) but glaive toss great for single target.
it doesnt' make sense, because all 3 spells on that talent tier do high dmg single target, and 1/2 dmg as AoE, thus the best singletarget ability also does the most AE dmg...
just to clarify this: GT does 4x the dmg to the primary, but only gets hit once from the glaives. the AE dmg does 1/4 of the dmg, but hits twice (on the way to target, and on the way back)
so why is GT considerer single, and the others multitarget? Is it just the way that GT does dmg? powershot has a very similar mechanic (dmg to targets on path) onyl barrages way of targeting is a bit different

[Puerto]

Yup.. I found barrage actually being high DPS than glaive on Wind Lord.

To bad I died on our kill attempt =(