shaman patch notes

[kosajk]

You're moving the goalposts. You started off talking about the class in general, now you're wanting to focus solely on Enh PvP. Changing the argument midway when confronted says that you don't actually have any confidence in your own original claims.


However, I haven't heard anything negative about Enhancement in any meaningful way, with regards to PvP. The AJ forums are pretty upbeat about the spec in general. Shaman aren't lacking. The idea that our abilities need to be as good or better than anyone else's is just absolute, unadulterated bullshit. You aren't asking for balance, you're asking to be as good as the best classes at literally everything, and have our unique advantages on top of those. You're placing your minimum expectations at "grossly overpowered" and QQing because we're not there.

Well, we're not. Because that would be stupid and wrong. Elemental could use a little love, Enh is fine, and Resto is possibly a little too strong right now.

im seriously having much respect for you but sometimes you are just anoing with all that "its fine stop whining" pose

i dydynt change anything midway i just cleared situation to make sure we are talking about same aspect of the game, beside aoe part my post is on pvp (just mentioned about it cose its really clunky in my opinion) and i wanted to make it clear cose you are talking with everyone at once andd thing may get mixed

if you would say "after next patch things will get nerfed for op clases and it will be prabobly ok" i would agree with you but curently we have plenty of specs that have insane burst along with really good defensive cds and i really dont think that giving use instant stun in mele range or some 5 sec oh shit buton would brake or homgenize game and thats all what im asking really,
i never sayed i want all of the aspect of the class to be improved, im not sure where you get that really, just mentioned that we are lacking in all

We do have some of what you're referring to, and many other classes are missing one or more of that list as well. You have an overly narrow vision of what a spec should be. It's not something reflected in reality.

i asked you to name one cose i must be to "narrow visioned" to see it myself obviously so my question still stands

[Radux]

- As for PvE: We are doing alright but AoE mechanism doesn't feel right in terms of effort / gain. It's really disheartening to see EVERY single spec does almost the same damage with way too less effort (one button in general).

I agree and disagree, to an extent.

I like the mechanic as a whole, but I hate how it's really shitty/impossible to work with when dealing with low health mobs. Also spread targets when target switching (mostly just thinking annoyances within 5 mans).

Enh AoE is quite amazing, though, in a sustained situation. I also really like it works soooo nicely with EotE and UE:FT.

[Deleted]

- As for PvE: We are doing alright but AoE mechanism doesn't feel right in terms of effort / gain. It's really disheartening to see EVERY single spec does almost the same damage with way too less effort (one button in general).

Not only that, it doesn't even work like pestilence by refreshing the already existing FS on target with the first spread.

I wish that:

1- Chain Lightning was Enhancement's go-to Cleave/AOE ability, like Elemental;
2- Fire Nova Scrapped; (or nº4)
3- Magma Totem giving Searing Flames when hitting +5 targets;
4- Chain Lightning spreading Flame Shocks (to a maximum of x targets if nº2 is not scrapped);


PS still haven't figured out why they dont buff MSW by adding + 100% healing and +x% damage to the next spell used with MSW5.

I mean seriously they did it with Hot Streak procs and this would terminate our melee hard casting.

[Endus]

[quotei never sayed i want all of the aspect of the class to be improved, im not sure where you get that really, just mentioned that we are lacking in all

Because we're NOT lacking in all areas. Not unless you're comparing us in every aspect to the best specs for that. So yes, you're complaining that because Enhancement AoE, CC, and defensive tools aren't at least equal to the absolute best specs in the game, Enhancement is "bad".

And that's simply not true. It's a gross misunderstanding of how class design works. Class design is an equation, class balance is the result. It doesn't matter if shaman are a+b+c+d+e, and <class X> is A+B+C, where A>a, B>b, and C>c. What matters is whether a+b+c+d+e=A+B+C. And the end result that we're seeing is pretty broad support for Enhancement as a competitive PvP spec, from the PvP community.

Trying to break it down into the specific variables says absolutely nothing about the final result. It doesn't matter if some of our stuff is weaker than some other class'. What matters is whether the collective pool of all our tools is competitive against their collective pools.

[Mithgroth]

And that's simply not true. It's a gross misunderstanding of how class design works. Class design is an equation, class balance is the result. It doesn't matter if shaman are a+b+c+d+e, and <class X> is A+B+C, where A>a, B>b, and C>c. What matters is whether a+b+c+d+e=A+B+C.

Although I agree to a point, I don't think class balance entirely is like that.

a+b+c+d+e can never be equal to A+B+C, so it's more of a categorization and sub-categorization:

Common in all classes (all classes and specs have these criterias)
Damage --> Sub-categories: Single target (burst - sustained), AoE (burst - sustained)
Self healing / Survivability
Mobility --> Escapes, gap-closing (melee), cast-on-move (ranged, started with cata)
Control - CC

Categories (Monk excluded):

Tanks
Block tanks, shield users: Paladin, Warrior
Heal tank: DK (revolves around DS)
Avoidance tank: Druid

Pure DPS: Can only fit DPS role, rich CC and survivability, no direct healing spells except self heals to enhance survivability
Rogue
Mage
Lock
Hunter

Hybrid DPS without off-healing: Similar to Pure DPS with less CC options but can tolerate more incoming damage, lacks utility
Warrior
DK

Hybrid DPS with off-healing: Can off-heal in dire situations, trades off CC and survivability, rich utility
Shadow Priest
Boomkin - Feral
Enh - Ele

Healers
Absorb healer: Disc priest, instead of healing, they aim to absorb and prevent the damage, lacks mana regen, rich utility
HoT healer: Druid, less direct heals, focused more on HoTs, the best utility, weak against Stun & Silence, moderate mana regen
Direct healers: Holy Priest, Shaman, Paladin, very powerful direct healing with moderate utility, strong mana regen (unsure for holy priest)


Although it might be argueble, this is the way I see how specs are categorized. The goal is to have an equation within each sub-category, your formula goes there. But with same amount of variables on each side. Hypotheticly, a hunter may have more CC than a Mage, and a Mage may have a bit more mobility options. In the end, when you roughly sum up all these criterias, they should be close to each other. This is what I understand from class design and balance.

What people are claiming, we may not have the best a, b and even c. But we are behind even when it's summed up all together. Although the gap is smaller than it was on Cataclysm (which doesn't mean we should be grateful and not expect furthermore until it's close to be equal), I think we still need tweaking.

And in addition to all this, off-healing is a criteria of our division and the incoming nerf to off-healing will hurt DPS shamans the most since we had the best off-healing but the worst defensive (again compared to our division).

[Taalyn]

Fire Nova would work a little better if it was a fire and forget spell. Hit Fire Nova and for the next X sec all targets with a Flame Shock on them deal Y damage to all targets within Z yards.

[Radux]

Fire Nova would work a little better if it was a fire and forget spell. Hit Fire Nova and for the next X sec all targets with a Flame Shock on them deal Y damage to all targets within Z yards.

It would "work better", but Blizzard has also made it abundantly clear that they don't like stuff like that to be completely fire and forget. They've gone through great lengths to make a distinct single target and AoE 'rotation' for all* specs.

* off the top of my head.

[Endus]

Although I agree to a point, I don't think class balance entirely is like that.

a+b+c+d+e can never be equal to A+B+C, so it's more of a categorization and sub-categorization:

Let a through e be 10,11,12,13, and 14. Values created solely to prove a point. Let A, B, and C be equal to 19,20, and 21.

For any given a through e, it's lower than A, B, or C. But a+b+c+d+e=60, and 18+19+20=60.

While it's true that class balance isn't this precise, I'm using an analogy to get across a greater point. It doesn't matter if some of our abilities are, strictly speaking, not as good as some other spec's. What matters is the total sum of what all our tools bring to the table. Class balance is more like "it needs to be ~60, +/- 3 or so", and there's some other rock-scissors-paper dynamics, but my point is that 1:1 comparisons between abilities are pointless and distracting. Not only does it not matter if they aren't the same, they SHOULDN'T be the same. The entire point of different classes is having different abilities with different strengths

[Mithgroth]

Let a through e be 10,11,12,13, and 14. Values created solely to prove a point. Let A, B, and C be equal to 19,20, and 21.

For any given a through e, it's lower than A, B, or C. But a+b+c+d+e=60, and 18+19+20=60.

While it's true that class balance isn't this precise, I'm using an analogy to get across a greater point. It doesn't matter if some of our abilities are, strictly speaking, not as good as some other spec's. What matters is the total sum of what all our tools bring to the table. Class balance is more like "it needs to be ~60, +/- 3 or so", and there's some other rock-scissors-paper dynamics, but my point is that 1:1 comparisons between abilities are pointless and distracting. Not only does it not matter if they aren't the same, they SHOULDN'T be the same. The entire point of different classes is having different abilities with different strengths

I understand your point, even support the part in bold.
To get back to the original topic, we support that we need changes and having no changes at all in a major patch is just unacceptable. However you claimed that the class is basically fine as it is, which is not. The way I and other people claim that, our sum in your equation example is lower than other classes who do similar jobs and in the same division as we are. We discussed many points yet, and there are lots of other points to discuss as far as I'm sure. But claiming that every single one of them are wrong and class is fine, and having no change at all is normal, isn't constructive and realistic. Furthermore, off-spec healing nerf will hurt us very badly unless it's an insignificant nerf, which I doubt highly after GC's statement on the issue. There should be something going wrong to be fixed, or to be improved with the class in a major patch, and hell yes there are issues even if you accept them or not. Nobody claims Shaman to be the worst of the worst as if you are argueing otherwise. Yes, we have strengths, we should have weaknesses too, we love them both, but we need equality in our sum, we are lagging behind.

I agree that comparing abilities and spells one by one isn't way to go, and I believe people only wrote it because it has that feel. Yes, it really feels like an inferior Shadow Fury, that's the feeling. However noone asked to make it the same or similar as Shadow Fury, that would just be the lazy solution. What we want has nothing to do with Shadow Fury, for my case, I just want the ability to be reliable and not frustrating to use. I should be able to set my mind on the battle and my tactics instead of stressing myself to make CPT work. It's not fun, it's stressing. An ability should be fun to use, and a CC should be reliable and dependable in PvP. I've seen this many times on official forums too, yet Blizzard has taken no actions yet. It's a big issue because it also limits our choices on glyphs and talents, resulting in less joy playing the class and because it is so easy to fail with it, it's so demoralising to use. It doesn't require any sort of buffs ever, but it requires either a revamp or lots of Quality of Life changes. Again, as a result, there should be any changes and not being mentioned in a major patch note is not acceptable for the current state of the class.

[Endus]

I agree that comparing abilities and spells one by one isn't way to go, and I believe people only wrote it because it has that feel. Yes, it really feels like an inferior Shadow Fury, that's the feeling. However noone asked to make it the same or similar as Shadow Fury, that would just be the lazy solution. What we want has nothing to do with Shadow Fury, for my case, I just want the ability to be reliable and not frustrating to use. I should be able to set my mind on the battle and my tactics instead of stressing myself to make CPT work. It's not fun, it's stressing. An ability should be fun to use, and a CC should be reliable and dependable in PvP. I've seen this many times on official forums too, yet Blizzard has taken no actions yet. It's a big issue because it also limits our choices on glyphs and talents, resulting in less joy playing the class and because it is so easy to fail with it, it's so demoralising to use. It doesn't require any sort of buffs ever, but it requires either a revamp or lots of Quality of Life changes. Again, as a result, there should be any changes and not being mentioned in a major patch note is not acceptable for the current state of the class.

While I'm not a huge fan of Capacitor Totem (it's okay, but it's not game-changing in a huge way or something), the thing is, the current design is almost exactly what the community's been asking for, for years now. Ever since we lost Fire Nova Totem. The one big complaint with FNT was that we couldn't chuck it and that 5 seconds was a long charge. Capacitor Totem has a glyph to reduce the charge, can be chucked, and stuns for 5 seconds, not 2 like Fire Nova Totem. The only negative Capacitor Totem has with regards to the old FNT is that it doesn't deal damage, but that was never the point of FNT in PvP.

That's partly why I take issue with the current attitude. They gave us exactly what Shaman have been asking for, and improved on it in exactly the ways we asked. And we're still complaining that it's crap and they never listen and yadda yadda. Being critical of it and that it's not quite "enough" in the current paradigm, sure, I can get behind that. I've got plenty of suggestions I keep making on the official forums myself, and capacitor totem DOES figure in, there. But the idea that the devs aren't listening or paying attention? No, this is EXACTLY what was asked for. The idea that we get "bad" abilities constantly? No, that's simply false; it's biased grass-is-greener QQ.

There's plenty of room for constructive criticism. Kicking your toys across the room and saying they suck isn't constructive criticism, though.

[Deleted]

Its always been like that. Ive waited so long in cataclysm for them to buff elemental shaman in PvE and PvP and after 6 month without anything happening I quit. A few weeks after that they finally changed the PvP Set bonus and buffed Lightning Shield and a few damage spells

[Mithgroth]

While I'm not a huge fan of Capacitor Totem (it's okay, but it's not game-changing in a huge way or something), the thing is, the current design is almost exactly what the community's been asking for, for years now. Ever since we lost Fire Nova Totem. The one big complaint with FNT was that we couldn't chuck it and that 5 seconds was a long charge. Capacitor Totem has a glyph to reduce the charge, can be chucked, and stuns for 5 seconds, not 2 like Fire Nova Totem. The only negative Capacitor Totem has with regards to the old FNT is that it doesn't deal damage, but that was never the point of FNT in PvP.

That's partly why I take issue with the current attitude. They gave us exactly what Shaman have been asking for, and improved on it in exactly the ways we asked. And we're still complaining that it's crap and they never listen and yadda yadda. Being critical of it and that it's not quite "enough" in the current paradigm, sure, I can get behind that. I've got plenty of suggestions I keep making on the official forums myself, and capacitor totem DOES figure in, there. But the idea that the devs aren't listening or paying attention? No, this is EXACTLY what was asked for. The idea that we get "bad" abilities constantly? No, that's simply false; it's biased grass-is-greener QQ.

There's plenty of room for constructive criticism. Kicking your toys across the room and saying they suck isn't constructive criticism, though.

MMOs are living, breathing and evolving creatures. This has been said even by Blizzard themselves many times.
You can't simply compare CPT to Fire Nova Totem and say "this is what we exactly want". PvP changed a lot since Fire Nova Totem.

Also, even if we completely ignore what I just said and assume that it's like FNT which we lost (I disagree here, CPT today has a more important role than Fire Nova used to have), it still doesn't explain why it shouldn't receive any improvement like I stated before, mostly QoL-wise instead of straight buffs.

Hunters asked for a Trap Launcher every single day before they finally got it.
However, it was too annoying to use before its final state today. It actually made using traps a lot more difficult than it was, and simply was not fun to use at all. Blizzard eventually improved it and now Trap Launcher is great, finally reliable, usable and enjoyable.

I don't see how FNT justifies your "we are fine" arguement.

[Murderdoll]

While I'm not a huge fan of Capacitor Totem (it's okay, but it's not game-changing in a huge way or something), the thing is, the current design is almost exactly what the community's been asking for, for years now.

People have been asking for the return of 2H WFLOLOL and Shaman tanking since the dawn of time. Does that mean if it returned we should embrace it because its what a portion of the community wanted?

Of course not, it would be a horrible move. I would think you of all people would know that just because a segment of the player base wants something it doesn't mean its the best thing for the class/spec/game.

Im sure a lot of the "We want FNT back" was rose colored glasses - much like the 2H enhance threads. The totem was horrible when it was around and it was only when we had no stun that we wanted it back. FNT was gone for 4 years, in that space a lot changed, including us moving away from some totems which is where I think some of the frustration with this stems from. The devs said they were reducing the number of totems yet have we have most of our utility (snares etc) tied to them still. TP hasnt made the totem system any less clunky or annoying to use. I dont even know why people were wanting it for so long.

[kosajk]

Because we're NOT lacking in all areas. Not unless you're comparing us in every aspect to the best specs for that. So yes, you're complaining that because Enhancement AoE, CC, and defensive tools aren't at least equal to the absolute best specs in the game, Enhancement is "bad".

And that's simply not true. It's a gross misunderstanding of how class design works. Class design is an equation, class balance is the result. It doesn't matter if shaman are a+b+c+d+e, and <class X> is A+B+C, where A>a, B>b, and C>c. What matters is whether a+b+c+d+e=A+B+C. And the end result that we're seeing is pretty broad support for Enhancement as a competitive PvP spec, from the PvP community.

Trying to break it down into the specific variables says absolutely nothing about the final result. It doesn't matter if some of our stuff is weaker than some other class'. What matters is whether the collective pool of all our tools is competitive against their collective pools.

i supose we can asume that pure dps clases can chose best spec for pvp and use it sucefully at will, with changeing couple glyphs maybe reforge, and weapons sometimes so its not that much efort like for hybrids to change from enh to ele for instance

now keping that in mind find me one pvp spec that have worse A+B+C+D than ours D+E+F cose i cant find that class and thats my problem really atm
i cant think about any pvp spec that have worse defensive cds, worse mobility and problems similiar to ours with cc (capacitor + hex with long cd) and that are 3 aspects that shape good class/spec in pvp cose burst is pretty similiar acros the board (not counting hunters and mages cose they will be nerfed from what i know)

so i may be plaing another game or it maybe that im really bad at it, hard to say, but imo some tweaks would not kill the game and im not asking about anything else really, maybe some understanding instead of slaping me in the face with some posts saing "stop talking bullshit and QQ" cose its exacly your words m8

its nice to know that there are ppls that dont have any problems tho i would love to play some pvp with you

[Chainreactor]

While I do agree with your sentiment that any negativity is shouted down and viewed as trolling, I do agree that you are going about your arguments the wrong way.

I am finding Capacitor Totem to be useful (moreso in a PVE scenarios such as Elegon), yet overly complicated for what it is trying to accomplish.

I havent done much PVP this expansion I have been to focused on getting my tank and shammy in a good spot, but from my PVE uses of it, I would hate to have to rely on it for a stun. Totems can be destroyed. It has a charge time (5 seconds is a long time to wait for a stun in PVP so the glyph is mandatory). Players can just move away from its field during its charge time making the stun also rely on TP. It just has far to many negatives about it to be a reliable tool.

Is it an issue that needs to be urgently resolved, no, I think the Diablo III "Arent you thankful" message should apply here. We had no stuns for a very long time. Our slows were clunky and shit. Now we have Earthgrab and CPT. I can live with CPT being a pain in the arse sometimes.

That is exactly my point

5 Sec charge on 5HP Totem will only Stun half wit players in Random BGs

With Major Glyph it becomes a bit more manageable
With Projection it can be used at range instantly

After all this there is still the fact that u cannot sacrifice Glyph of Ghostwolf/Unleashed Elements followed by Purge/Thunder for CPT in PvP
Also Totemic Restoration is a solid talent which affects all totems compared to choosing Projection for just one totem

The trade offs are very high

now keping that in mind find me one pvp spec that have worse A+B+C+D than ours D+E+F cose i cant find that class and thats my problem really atm
i cant think about any pvp spec that have worse defensive cds, worse mobility and problems similiar to ours with cc (capacitor + hex with long cd) and that are 3 aspects that shape good class/spec in pvp cose burst is pretty similiar acros the board (not counting hunters and mages cose they will be nerfed from what i know)

Mage / Lock /Spriest have

- Stronger Defense
- Stronger CC
- Stronger Damage / Burst
- Better Mobility / Gap Openers

compared to Ele Shaman

[shell]

Meh, I use glyphs of GW, Purge, and CPT with Totemic Restoration and its working out just fine for me. The TS glyph isn't on my radar and it doesn't bother me not to be able to run and shoot off 10k lightning bolts. Other people like those glyphs and that's fine but those particular glyphs are just not right for me.

[mrinvisable2]

capatitator totem should be like thrown on someone and after 5 sec player and players around him are stunned totem cant be removed but stun can be dispelled like now

and other thing we have too much glyphs almost useless / with minor benefit as major ( hex it should be base line 35 sec, gw ,frost shock, grounding,clensing waters) or they almost all are pvp glyphs

as resto i use hex capatitaor against casters Hst against mele / hunts gw glyph

[Protoman]

-------***** The most important issue for QoL change *****-------
- While you are trying to aim it, your mouse turns into TP's AoE pointer, which is a circle about 2-yard radius. When you try to aim it 30-yards away, it becomes too hard to predict 8-yard effect area on a moving target, while in the mean time you have to count for the arming time and hit it exactly on the right milisecond to land it. I don't see how this is "skill-cap" instead of just annoying. In the heat of combat, count to x, place it in the very right spot at the very right time, and try to predict 8-yards AoE, it's just asking too much for an AoE stun which is already balanced by its own long cooldown . It's not reliable enough, hitting with CPT shouldn't be a bonus, it should be one of our tools that we use for control.
-------***** The most important issue for QoL change *****-------

- Glyph feels plain wrong. Glyphs should alter and tweak a spell further instead of making them more reliable to use. The ability itself should be decent enough to be useful. Similar to talents, glyphs should be playstyle choices. CPT glyph feels like a bug-fix now. Because CPT isn't a reliable stun and too difficult to execute properly on its own (see the reasons above), glyph becomes mandatory if you intend to use it in your arsenal. This is just plain wrong because it contradicts with Blizzard's revamped talent and glyph logic. Also, "making a spell more reliable to use" isn't the same as "altering your playstyle by adding CPT".

I would say making TP and totem placement more accurate and reliable is not QoL but something that should happen just to improve the spell to normal standards.....it makes no sense that the totem ends up in a random area around the actual target reticle and not where you want to place it, they can just cluster the totems closer together instead of spreading them so far apart.

And I agree with your point about glyphs..... imp GW, totemic vigor, and CPT glyphs all basically make certain abilities go from almost useless or weak to useable and normal, GW is necessary for PVP mobility but without glyph its useless, totems with longer CD's but only 5HP is just unbalanced IMO and the glyph should be a standard part of most totems anyways, and the CPT glyph makes it so your CPT isn't easily one shot by any decent player and makes your CPT closer to the level of reliability as almost every other instant AOE stun.

Since I'm doing Enh PvP as well, I feel like I can say a few words about it:

Enh has certain issues, overally thanks to Shamanistic Rage, it's doing better.

- Mobility: It's terrible. The biggest issue with Enh is mobility. Compared to any other period in WoW history, all classes have many ways to snare and root melee. Enh is a melee spec, thus needs to be at melee range as much as possible. Enh doesn't have a gap-closer, to make up for it we have sprints. Spirit Walk is a situational sprint due to it's long cooldown to be a gap-closer, so we are forced to pick Unleashed Fury. Picking any other T6 talents will result in a much lower uptime, they are not even competitive enough.

- As for PvE: We are doing alright but AoE mechanism doesn't feel right in terms of effort / gain. It's really disheartening to see EVERY single spec does almost the same damage with way too less effort (one button in general).

I think this is the biggest problem facing Enh in PVP as well, our poor mobility. Every other class has recieved more significant updates to their mobility then we have, even classes like ret or priests got more reliable mobility tools then we do when they used to have almost nothing. Shaman need a reliable form of mobility and GW + Frozen Power sorta suits that purpose but we have to be stuck with certain talents and glyphs to get what should be a given tool. Enhance in particular as a melee class should have a real gap closer but we have no such thing, I personally would like to see TP given baseline and the Tier 3 talents turned into a mobility tier.....but aside from that Enhance deserves a real gap closer, its ridiuclous that a class like druids gets snare/root shift plus 2 different charges or Ret gets snare/root dispel plus a choice of 3 diff mobility tools and we have almost nothing.

The suggestion to make ULE FB also remove snares/roots is a good one and something I think should be considered, or make the current PVP 4set bonus a baseline ability by adding the 40%LL damage into LL and removing it from FT, then make the 4set PVP bonus let your ULE also remove snares/roots so you can take full advantage of the sprint instead of have it be gimped when you are snared or rooted.

Not only that, it doesn't even work like pestilence by refreshing the already existing FS on target with the first spread.

I wish that:

1- Chain Lightning was Enhancement's go-to Cleave/AOE ability, like Elemental;
2- Fire Nova Scrapped; (or nº4)
3- Magma Totem giving Searing Flames when hitting +5 targets;
4- Chain Lightning spreading Flame Shocks (to a maximum of x targets if nº2 is not scrapped);

Enh AoE is just poorly designed.....they originally made it to work for both a ranged and melee class, but now that Elem has it's own AoE it just seems weird for Enhance. I like the idea of FLS spread and more FN's, but it's just annoying that you need a target to use FN, plus have to apply FLS first, and to spread it you need your 10 sec LL which we use right away so could be on CD. The FLS spread should be based on FN, not LL.....and IMO FN should be a targetable spell on its own and not require FLS, OR make a true melee AOE like "Lava Slash" that doesn't require a target and just works like swipe and somehow work FN+FLS into that.....so maybe Lava Slash has a 6 sec CD and this way we can just use that for quick AoE or for sustained, ramp up aoe use FLS>spread with Lava Slash>FN multiple times....gives you a layered AoE with some depth but not so dependent on a target or single target abilities in aoe rotation.

[shell]

the CPT glyph makes it so your CPT isn't easily one shot by any decent player and makes your CPT closer to the level of reliability as almost every other instant AOE stun.

This is why I use the glyph. And brings me to the issue that I'm having with people who keep saying its a bad totem: on the one hand they keep saying that its the worst aoe stun in the game but in the same breath they'll say its reliable with the glyph or TP, or both combined. Yet there are all these calls to increase its health or make it instant. This seems contradictory to me, nevermind that making it instant is counterintuitive since you wouldn't be able to use it with TP. Why should they increase its health or make it instant if its reliable with a 3 sec charge time? If the general opinion, amongst the people who don't like the totem, is that the base charge time is too long then just say that, just say that you want the glyph to be baked into the ability. Maybe if they do that people will stop complaining about it, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they won't. I suspect that a lot of people just want an unavoidable cc.

[Endus]

This is why I use the glyph. And brings me to the issue that I'm having with people who keep saying its a bad totem: on the one hand they keep saying that its the worst aoe stun in the game but in the same breath they'll say its reliable with the glyph or TP, or both combined. Yet there are all these calls to increase its health or make it instant. This seems contradictory to me, nevermind that making it instant is counterintuitive since you wouldn't be able to use it with TP. Why should they increase its health or make it instant if its reliable with a 3 sec charge time? If the general opinion, amongst the people who don't like the totem, is that the base charge time is too long then just say that, just say that you want the glyph to be baked into the ability. Maybe if they do that people will stop complaining about it, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they won't. I suspect that a lot of people just want an unavoidable cc.

The other issue to me, with that argument, is that they usually respond with "but I have so many other glyphs I want to use and can't fit that in." Glyphs are all optional. What you are actually saying when you say you "can't fit it in" is that improving on Capacitor Totem is, at best, 4th in your priorities when it comes to glyphs.

If the argument were "everyone always takes Glyph of Capacitor Totem because it's SO useful in PvP we can't do without it", you'd have a stronger case for changing Capacitor Totem accordingly. But nobody's saying that. Their actual argument is that, even to them, it's relatively low on their priority. Or they're glyphing it but somehow don't think they should have to, and sorry, no, that's what glyphs are for; tweaking your gameplay to be how you prefer it. You wanting certain glyphs means the system is working, not that it needs to be changed.