USA falling apart?

[kleinlax21]

[url]http://www.examiner.com/article/citizens-15-states-file-petitions-to-secede-from-united-states[url]



See bold. This is just people trying to start drama, nothing more.

Citizen from North Dakota files a petition for New York to secede? Country's going down the shitter. No doubt about it anymore, we are all completely fucked.

[Seezer]

Let's all come back to this thread in a few years and have a laugh.

[WeaponXAnimosity]

Old news. There's always been people saying the U.S. is going "downhill" and this is not the first time America has been through a recession. The U.S. has survived for 200+ years and will continue to do so.

[Psilar]

The USA is falling apart. Slowly though...

The problems that truly face the US are not being addressed by the President, the Democrats, the Republicans, or Congress. Sadly our country is turning into a welfare state. The powers at be think its OK to run a huge deficit. The powers at be think its OK to wage war and push our influence. This decline will be gradual.

Currently the US is doing very stupid things. Our current generation is filled with uneducated children that have a bleak future. Our schooling is getting worse and that's destroying the one thing that makes this country great. Ingenuity. Our draconian drug laws are a tax burden, they're not stopping addictions, they're not treating patients, and they're creating a divide between citizen and policeman. As a result, more and more Americans are unwilling to deal with policemen when it comes to solving violent crimes. Murder-solving rates have decreased in the last 1/2 a century.

Furthermore, issues such as abortion and gay marriage are elevated to a status way beyond normal. These "fake" issues are dividing the country and making it harder to deal with what really matters.

I don't think America is doomed - we are truly living during a great time. I believe that America needs to reduce the deficit and get those living off entitlements back to work. I don't mean create jobs - I mean create a sense of worth. I just went to go buy a sub at a corner store....Two humans, minorities, with poor-english (yes it was their first language) just spent $33 on junk food - $12 of which was Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream (for those who don't know its premium ice cream that's like $4 a pint)...all of which they paid for with a benefit card. I don't make enough money to buy Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream.

As Thomas Jefferson said....

"Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not."

---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 08:28 PM ----------

Old news. There's always been people saying the U.S. is going "downhill" and this is not the first time America has been through a recession. The U.S. has survived for 200+ years and will continue to do so.

With all due respect, America has gone through three huge turning points in the last century. One was the creation of the federal reserve, the second was our victory in WWII and the third was the removal of the gold standard. There are also massive problems with entitlement spending. Rome was a republic at one time - and a great one. It had security, it had strong families, and it had a bright future. Now what does America have? The middle class was the pioneer of the strong american family...they're dying off. Minorities in particular in this country, in urban areas, have they're own communities. They're not families. These communities support themselves because every one else is hostile - including police. What am I saying? There are deep divides in America, and they're not going away.

The federal reserve and the gold standard have removed the peoples power to control the currency. WWII put the US in a position of power, and I'm not convinced some of the decisions we made in the post-war era are very good in the long term.

[Christan]

So, what, some 20,000 people don't like the way the government is going? Oh by gosh that's a lot of people. I mean there's only 310 million people in the USA, I mean that's what, .006% of the country? Clearly the country is falling apart!

well petition is only 3 days old and only signed by people in texas... cuts a huge chunk out of your numbers.
there are petitions for other countries to succeed but none have as many numbers within such a short amount of time.
texans tired of the economy of the rest of the country dragging it to the ground.

if the 15th largest economy in the world part is indeed true (and i am inclined to believe)
the USA would lose a huge boon in its failing economy,
even if it werent for the economy i highly doubt it would be allowed...

i remember a post from a lubbock judge who said it might come to civil war if he is re-elected.

i for one think its about time for our people(the entire nation) to stop cowering before big brother(the gov't)
and get a damned spine.

for those wondering, Austin Texas is where im from,

still debating whether to sign it...

-edit- went back and looked at it, not only signed by texans.

[DiscoLemonade]

I wish; I've always been sad that good ol' Abe Lincoln fought so hard to keep them in the first place. The rest of the country would be so much more advanced by now.

They aren't going anywhere, though. They'll be held onto with the same ferocity now as they were in the Civil War.

[TheWerebison]

As Thomas Jefferson said....

"Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not.

A very true and intelligent quote. I also take it to mean those folks like us who work two jobs and still remain under poverty level vs. those folks who inherit their wealth and do nothing with it but accumulate more.

---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 02:58 AM ----------

I don't get why people seem to think that everyone who is poor is so because they aren't willing to work. Romney and his fucking 47% bullshit. Now, granted, I'm sure there are LOTS of people who would love something for nothing, but Christ, it's not all of us.

[Rukentuts]

A very true and intelligent quote. I also take it to mean those folks like us who work two jobs and still remain under poverty level vs. those folks who inherit their wealth and do nothing with it but accumulate more.

This is why Thomas Jefferson also supported a hefty estate tax.

[TheWerebison]

This is why Thomas Jefferson also supported a hefty estate tax.

They always seemed so much smarter back then. Brilliant quotes from political minds back then. I wonder if they had so much political division, to the point where each party just wanted to work on ruining the other rather than fixing the problems, as we have. If their campaigns were more about points and winning just for the sake of winning rather than because you truly believe in your country and want to improve the lives of your fellow countrymen.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'd love to see Texas try and secede. As much as people believe that Texas would be fully capable of running as its own independent country, that's about as far from the truth as you could get.

If Texas seceded from the nation just because Obama won the reelection, all the sane people would leave the state and all that would remain are the crazy, gun toting, bible thumping extremists who would piss everyone off and either kill each other or get themselves nuked.

[Mormolyce]

As Thomas Jefferson said....

"Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not."

That quote looked suspiciously anachronistic and influenced by partisan bias so I decided to google it. Here is one of many pages I found on it:

Question:
Who said democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not?
Answer:
This quote is frequently cited by conservatives, who usually attribute it to Thomas Jefferson. But Jefferson scholars say he never made such a statement. More likely, it was uttered by conservative columnist Cal Thomas, in a column he wrote for a newspaper.
SOURCE

[Cthulhu 2020]

That quote looked suspiciously anachronistic and influenced by partisan bias so I decided to google it. Here is one of many pages I found on it:

Question:
Who said democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not?
Answer:
This quote is frequently cited by conservatives, who usually attribute it to Thomas Jefferson. But Jefferson scholars say he never made such a statement. More likely, it was uttered by conservative columnist Cal Thomas, in a column he wrote for a newspaper.
SOURCE

Conservatives misquoting and using faulty sources? Color me... not surprised at all.

[Mormolyce]

A very true and intelligent quote.

You'll be reassured to know it's neither :P

[Laize]

They always seemed so much smarter back then. Brilliant quotes from political minds back then. I wonder if they had so much political division, to the point where each party just wanted to work on ruining the other rather than fixing the problems, as we have. If their campaigns were more about points and winning just for the sake of winning rather than because you truly believe in your country and want to improve the lives of your fellow countrymen.

I know. Politicians are always so mean spirited and all they ever do is sling mud. I wish we could have Presidential campaigns like they had back in the day.

"... murder, robbery, rape, adultery and incest will be openly taught and practiced. The air will be rent with the cries of the distressed, the soil will be soaked with blood, and the nation black with crimes."

That's Thomas Jefferson regarding what would happen if John Adams won the Presidency over him. Good old American politics. Never change.

---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 03:30 AM ----------

And honestly, American politics is really pretty civil. I mean really civil.

Not just compared to nations like India in parliament:



But also nations like the UK:



In comparison, here's one of the most violent and rude altercations in the US Senate. The "fight" starts 45 seconds in.

[OneSent]

The U.S. is going downhill regardless of who's in office.

You can take any possible political candidate from the past 30 years and put him in the seat, and we would still be in the exact same place we are today. I guarantee it.

We have set ourselves up a lifestyle which can only foster more problems down the road. Within the next decade or so, we are going to have to start taking drastic measures if we want this to continue working and it's not going to be very pretty.

As a nation and as a civilization, we are further ahead than at any other point in our existence, yet we are falling faster than ever before. How is it that previous civilizations thrived for thousands of years when we, as a nation only 236 years old, can barely keep it together?

[TheWerebison]

I know. Politicians are always so mean spirited and all they ever do is sling mud. I wish we could have Presidential campaigns like they had back in the day.



That's Thomas Jefferson regarding what would happen if John Adams won the Presidency over him. Good old American politics. Never change.

Hahahaha. Good. At least it's good to know we've always been a little fucked in the head. I kinda feel better. XD

[slackjawsix]

glad to know OP isnt biased and can spell

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Really? I dont think its illegal. States have the right to leave the US. Why wouldnt they? If Texas believes that its better for them to leave then they should. I as a resident of Virginia dont care, and wouldnt care if Virginia decided to leave.

The Supreme Court of the US upheld that secession is illegal. It was even previously ruled that, since secession was illegal, that the Confederate government in Texas was an illegitimate government and that Texas never seceded from the union.

What grounds the the US military have to attack Texas if it secedes?

The reason states wont secede has nothing to do with the US military, it has to do with not only a lot of laws that are going to have to change, as well as politicians at the top spots are not going to allow their own state to leave.

In a country that was founded on becoming independent it would be hypocritical to not let states secede.

Rebelling against the federal government. There are many reasons that states won't try secede.

The US wasn't founded on being independent. The Revolutionary War was started based on taxation without representation. If the colonies had been given representation with which to discuss tax rates with, they would have stayed British because we were perfectly fine with being a British colony. The Declaration of Independence is named as such to declare our independence from Britain, not to promote independence itself.

[EternalK]

Secession through consent of the States is not explicitly illegal, which is what the states on the current list are petitioning for...Texas v White established that while secession by proclamation (or however you want to describe just "up and leaving") is unconstitutional, doing so via a petition to the Pres. and Congress is not.

[LilSaihah]

The U.S. is going downhill regardless of who's in office.

You can take any possible political candidate from the past 30 years and put him in the seat, and we would still be in the exact same place we are today. I guarantee it.

This is probably the best thing to take out of this election; your choice didn't matter. The system has too much steam; it doesn't matter who's at the front of the rollercoaster. It wouldn't have mattered if Jesus H Ron Paul took the seat.

As a nation and as a civilization, we are further ahead than at any other point in our existence, yet we are falling faster than ever before. How is it that previous civilizations thrived for thousands of years when we, as a nation only 236 years old, can barely keep it together?

You can count the number of civilizations that survived for thousands of years on one hand. 236 years is pretty average so far as imperialistic civilizations go, and the lifecycle of civilisations is pretty well documented. Don't get too caught up.