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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayonel View Post
    Gosh, so, personally, my health care costs have gone up $4,000 this year, and you think I'm a jerk for telling my family that we have to cut back further simply because we've already cut back because my income has also gone down?

    Lousy economy + increasing expenses + increasing overhead - lower income = more cutbacks. Simple.

    People who don't understand math or economics shouldn't try to form thoughts based on political hogwash they've been spoon-fed.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:34 AM ----------



    You, like almost everyone else, fail to understand how this works. Suppose I run a large public corporation. Ok, sure, let's say I, and my board, make a lot of money. But my job is to maximize profits - for shareholders. More on that in a minute. If the economy is bad, and I am not increasing revenues, then I must cut expenses. The largest expense in most companies is its employees.

    Now, what's all the hoopla about profits? Why can't these greedy CEO's make a little less and make the world a better place? Because lower profits mean lower stock prices. Lower stock prices means unhappy shareholders...but who are the shareholders?

    Let's assume that my company is a Fortune 500 company. That means that it's probably included in the S&P 500, the Russell, and a few other indices. The point being, there is a high level of institutional ownership. Maybe as high as 90%. So who are your institutional owners? Well, as it turns out, most of them are the woefully underfunded pension funds being managed for the benefit of public employee unions, ERISA's, and 401's.

    So, it all comes around to: if public companies are not managed in a way that maximizes profits and drives stock prices up, the main people who are hurt are the very people complaining about the greedy bastards on Wall Street.
    If it makes you feel better I understand you and agree with you. Not many others will though because the liberal media tells them different and they won't do their own research to prove otherwise.

  2. #502
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Forbes did a great article going through the math of John Schnatter's claims. They found that the price increase per pizza is actually 3.4 to 4.6 cents per pizza.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/calebmel...bamacare-math/

    So not only does this guy make shitty pizza, but he sucks at math.

    My favorite part of the article:

    Meanwhile, shares in Papa John’s International have been tumbling since last Thursday, falling from $51.70 at market close Wednesday to $49.22 on Monday, a 4.2% drop.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Varabently View Post
    You're right though, it is partially because Obama wants to keep Obamacare + get rid of the Bush tax cuts on millionaires. Both are going to cut into their bottom line.
    Tax hikes on wealthy individuals do not cut into a business' bottom line. There is a separate business tax code.

  4. #504
    I'm not sure I want to make much of the "tumbling" shares. Stocks fluctuate in a semi-random fashion for all sorts of reasons, and the overall trend for Papa John's has been strongly upward. If they've flinched down slightly over an internet meme, they're probably a decent enough buy at the moment.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Tax hikes on wealthy individuals do not cut into a business' bottom line. There is a separate business tax code.
    Exactly. Sorry most just take the crap in about the wealthy and do not even understand how business tax works. In my start up business I knew from the start to file as a corporation or LLC which a) protects you from all incoming getting taxed, especially C-corporations. 2) protects you from individual law suits, which in the law suit happy society probably will happen once in you business lifetime.

    Also this douche Papa John takes the cake. He is crying because of all his part-time employees and people he barely pays minimum wage will raise his health cost by 3-5 cents a pizza. People have to realize INCOME TAX to the rich do not create jobs, how well the economy creates jobs. Just look at past 8 years under Bush and even Obama who extended the cuts and the job market was stagnant.
    Last edited by Paranoid Android; 2012-11-14 at 03:33 PM.

  6. #506
    LOL that is the worst business move ever.

    You don't lay people based on increased prices, you lay people off based on demand for your product or if a product line is simply not profitable.

    /facepalm


    Does someone have the sales figures? Maybe business took a hit, and they are passing the blame on to Obama.
    Last edited by Purlina; 2012-11-14 at 03:15 PM.

  7. #507
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I'm not sure I want to make much of the "tumbling" shares. Stocks fluctuate in a semi-random fashion for all sorts of reasons, and the overall trend for Papa John's has been strongly upward. If they've flinched down slightly over an internet meme, they're probably a decent enough buy at the moment.
    You're right, the tumbling shares could be nothing more than business as usual.

    But there has been a pretty huge "internet" backlash against this guy. This is the age group that's probably most likely to buy his product. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up hurting his bottom line.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  8. #508
    Deleted
    I find it funny/sad that better healthcare & welfare with higher taxes is like the devil. Rest of the world or atleast most countries in europe/scandinavia do that way and it works fine. Its like little kids that just rage because they dont like change and think its worse.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Totikki View Post
    I find it funny/sad that better healthcare & welfare with higher taxes is like the devil. Rest of the world or atleast most countries in europe/scandinavia do that way and it works fine. Its like little kids that just rage because they dont like change and think its worse.
    Scandinavia has a broader tax base than the USA, however.

  10. #510
    Corporations only care about making as much money for their bosses. That's it. Trickle down economics was supposed to empower the richest to provide more jobs and better pay. IMO all it did was give the rich more ways to spend money on themselves on vacations and new toys. They wouldn't hesitate to ship jobs off to another place, give out paltry raises because they could, or fire someone barely getting by to have larger bonus for an executive on up the ladder.

    Wall Street doesn't care about actually helping companies now that they got deregulated. They will just as easily bet on you to lose even if you are a client of them. Goldman Sacs is a prime example that really doesn't care either way. They only care about making money.

    So many people point the finger at Obama but in reality it's more about Congress. In this last round more Dem's got elected mainly because the Republicans mandate was to block anything and everything they could. It wasn't about caring about what was good or not for America. It was about trying to somehow make Obama look bad or that he wasn't getting anything done.

    The deal with our country is that our massive budget as compared to other countries is heavily skewed toward the military as can be seen by this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Un...federal_budget. We enacted 683 billion for military which is almost half the budget. Also look at the discrepancy with receipts between Individual vs Corporate income tax. Corporate income tax gathered only accounted for less than 10%. They already do everything possible to not pay hardly anything.

  11. #511
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    haters gonna hate

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakshan View Post
    IMO all it did was give the rich more ways to spend money on themselves on vacations and new toys.
    The rich don't get or stay rich by spending money. They get / stay that way by hoarding it. Giving rich individuals more money effectively removes it from the economy.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    The rich don't get or stay rich by spending money. They get / stay that way by hoarding it. Giving rich individuals more money effectively removes it from the economy.
    This is why I hate trust fund babies. They don't contribute anything, and hurt the economy...

    And to be honest, most of them are spoiled brats.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    This is why I hate trust fund babies. They don't contribute anything, and hurt the economy...

    And to be honest, most of them are spoiled brats.
    It's also why I found Romney's stance on abolishing the estate tax particularly infuriating. It isn't high enough the way it is.

  15. #515
    Stood in the Fire raintrees's Avatar
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    cant really be surprised about this. i hope at least the people that got canned were obama supporters. now they can live their dream of just sucking on the government tit and not actually working for what they have.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by raintrees View Post
    cant really be surprised about this. i hope at least the people that got canned were obama supporters. now they can live their dream of just sucking on the government tit and not actually working for what they have.
    The really surprise is that chain pizza places are still around.

  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkacid View Post
    You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
    You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
    You cannot help little men by tearing down big men.
    You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
    You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
    You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money.
    You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
    You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.
    You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence.
    And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.

    Obama needs to heed these words.
    You cannot run a society on advice from fortune cookies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totikki View Post
    I find it funny/sad that better healthcare & welfare with higher taxes is like the devil. Rest of the world or atleast most countries in europe/scandinavia do that way and it works fine. Its like little kids that just rage because they dont like change and think its worse.
    Also, Nordic countries and Canada have far higher social mobility (the "American Dream") than the USA does.
    For those who like pictures;



    This chart shows to what extent someone's parent's income affects their own future income. Lower numbers mean people will tend to succeed or fail on their own merits, rather than advantages given by their parents, e.g. the meritocracy that Americans like to imagine they live in.

  18. #518
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    You cant expect a successful business owner to just sit there and take a loss, he is where he is because he makes a product that people like at a price where he could turn a profit. I'm sure Papa Johns didn't start out as this big evil company that it is portrayed as now, probably started from nothing but turned into something from hard work. Once you become successful you can't rest of that, you continuously look for ways to grow your business and cut costs. If the government is going to force these costs on Papa Johns as a corporation, then they will find a way to still make as much of a profit as they can. No one wants to be in business to just to pay the bills and do ok.

  19. #519
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinerr View Post
    You cant expect a successful business owner to just sit there and take a loss, he is where he is because he makes a product that people like at a price where he could turn a profit. I'm sure Papa Johns didn't start out as this big evil company that it is portrayed as now, probably started from nothing but turned into something from hard work. Once you become successful you can't rest of that, you continuously look for ways to grow your business and cut costs. If the government is going to force these costs on Papa Johns as a corporation, then they will find a way to still make as much of a profit as they can. No one wants to be in business to just to pay the bills and do ok.
    I guess I'd feel bad for him if he didn't have a 40,000 square foot house, a private golf course, 22 car garage, etc...

    This is a man that has done incredibly well for himself. I don't expect him to take some huge loss. I expect him to raise the price of his pizza by 4 cents and move on with his life instead of bitch and moan about how he has to actually supply his peons with health insurance now.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    You hear that guys and gals? It's not hard to be successful, you just have to be born into a rich family!
    if someone can go from being homeless and living in the woods in the park to owning their own successful business less than 5 years later. then yes, ANYone, that wants to be successful CAN be... It's a matter of how much effort you truly want to put into it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 12:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    We do.
    Also, here in Belgium, they pay for Medical Insurance, but it is ALL heavily subsidised, so full coverage for me and my wife is the princely sum of 15 Euros a month. With discounts if we live healthy lifestyles (Gym. regular checkups etc).
    Yet, in USA< I read people have to pay nearly 4-5 times that amount, with less coming in than we have here? It's insane...
    and how much of your income do you have to give to your government? what precisely is the lowest tax bracket there in Belgium? Does EVERYone have to pay, or just select folks paying for the taxes?

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