The new peice of gear conundrum

[Deleted]

Given the inaccuracy of sites such as mr robot etc, what do you do when u get a new piece of gear to determine if its better than the one you have?

is there a more accurate way than wasting money on gemming/ enchanting/ reforging it and running ur self through female dwarf?

I find it a bit complicated to reforge things directly on sites such as female dwarf myself as my maths is rubbish, and i have to rely on programms such as wow reforge to do it for me.
the answer maybe very obvious but i thought id ask, as at the moment i am just relying on the complete rubbish that Mr robot spews out.

pallen

[Rhagnor]

I usually equip the item, use reforgelite (addon), put the new reforges on femaledwarf and check the values.

[Dole4011]

I use wowreforge and femaledwarf. I run my current gear set-up as a baseline. Then I change a piece of gear in wowreforge and reoptimize reforges. Then I make the same changes in femaledwarf and see how much of a change it nets. This is pretty tedious.

A less accurate but quicker way is hunterloot.com. I do a custom weighting and set hit and exp to values roughly equivalent with crit (since I have enough of it that it'll just get reforged anyway). Then I can compare individual pieces much more quickly, though I sacrifice a little bit of exactness.

[Confirm Deny]

Correct me if this is more blasphemous than getting your own sim thing, but Ask Mr. Robot you can easily just click "Weights" and - say if Mastery is more valuable than Crit but Mastery is a 1.3 and Crit is a 1.5 on their scale - change the weights (even just making Mastery a 1.52) and it should still give you the same reforging goodness to suit your needs.

TL;DR Femaledwarf best hunter tool of all time?

Edit: It's perfectly fine to run with 7.47% hit or expertise. You can also make them enforce the caps, either way. For on the go stuff, it's fine. Gear choices are literally screwy in anything but the BiS scenario, in my opinion, but every sim/reforge has gotten pretty good. Understandable if you put the time in to have something more useful like SimCraft or w/e, though.

[Deleted]

Correct me if this is more blasphemous than getting your own sim thing, but Ask Mr. Robot you can easily just click "Weights" and - say if Mastery is more valuable than Crit but Mastery is a 1.3 and Crit is a 1.5 on their scale - change the weights (even just making Mastery a 1.52) and it should still give you the same reforging goodness to suit your needs.

TL;DR Femaledwarf best hunter tool of all time?

When i use Mr robot to regorge (with my own wieghts ofc) it is often highly innacurate putting me above or below the expertise/hit caps on almost every sim. as a result im not sure if i should be trusting it with my gear choices as well!

[Tehstool]

When i use Mr robot to regorge (with my own wieghts ofc) it is often highly innacurate putting me above or below the expertise/hit caps on almost every sim. as a result im not sure if i should be trusting it with my gear choices as well!

I dislike how they simulate your gear and how their reforge thing works. I put this in a previous thread

Well, not to talk about it too much as I don't want to bash them. Comparing the Op's reforges from both mr robot (forced hit and exp cap option and locked gems and enchants) and wowreforge (both reforges done with the default stat priorities) , yields a surprising difference.

Looking at the results:

AMR
Crit 7154
Haste 1857
Mastery 2640


Wowreforge
Crit 7954
Haste 1405
Mastery 2286

Now, look at the differences:
crit 7154 - 7954 = -800
haste 1857 - 1405 = 452
mastery 2640 - 2286 = 354

With AMR's reforges you are trading 800 crit for 806 haste/mastery which obviously is a dps loss simply because crit is valued higher than both of those stats.

So wowreforge > all for reforging

[Butu]

Just import your character into Female Dwarf and wowreforge, check your stat weights in FD, then try out different weights in wowreforge while importing the reforges into FD to check your dps gains/losses. Slightly tedious of course, but if you truly want to min/max, this is the way. Quick way to get reforges from wowreforge to FD: click "Summary" in wowreforge, copy the input, click "Import Reforging" under "Gear" section in FD, paste the reforges and you are good to go.

The bad thing with FD though is that the stat weights aren't really that reliable at all (technically they are, but only for a few increments of the stat), so you have to kinda guess them yourself and test out different reforging weights manually. I myself like to use Simulationcraft for getting the item weights, but the program might be a bit intimidating to get used to. Highly worth it though, if you are ready to invest some time in learning it.

[refire]

I dislike how they simulate your gear and how their reforge thing works. I put this in a previous thread



So wowreforge > all for reforging

Wow Reforge can't read my socket bonuses. No thanks.

[Butu]

Wow Reforge can't read my socket bonuses. No thanks.

Did you check your character sheet VS the stats in wowreforge? For me, wowreforge seems to pick up socket bonuses just fine, it just doesn't explicitly state that anywhere.

[danko215]

If you are dumb, lazy or just bad, you rely on just those tools. If not, you figure it out using basic math. It's not hard, even public schools can't screw up the teaching process of basic match. Yes, this might be blunt and rude, but really, become a better player. Figure it out on your own so you know WHY one stat is better than the other. Once the internet is gone, what will you do? Survive successfully I hope, because you learned how to do things for yourself rather than be told how to wipe your own......
The choice should be which stat to reforge, not which tool to use to tell me how to play my class. Run a WoL, use those number because they are more realistic than FD. I have nothing really against these tools, and actually use them on occassion to compare my numbers I worked. Comparing real number(WoL) vs sim numbers plays more to your style and the encounter mechanics. Sims are just that, simulations to Patchwerk like fights. And don't forget all the other issues those sims have, i.e' not reading socket bonuses, not having the gear listed you have equipped, etc.
Felix Baumgartner didn't just rely on sims when his team researched the world record skydive. He went straight to the source of the guy who did it before, getting real info, real experience, real research.

TLR - Stop being lazy, do the minimal research or the zombies will get you.

[Butu]

If you are dumb, lazy or just bad, you rely on just those tools. If not, you figure it out using basic math. It's not hard, even public schools can't screw up the teaching process of basic match. Yes, this might be blunt and rude, but really, become a better player. Figure it out on your own so you know WHY one stat is better than the other. Once the internet is gone, what will you do? Survive successfully I hope, because you learned how to do things for yourself rather than be told how to wipe your own......
The choice should be which stat to reforge, not which tool to use to tell me how to play my class. Run a WoL, use those number because they are more realistic than FD. I have nothing really against these tools, and actually use them on occassion to compare my numbers I worked. Comparing real number(WoL) vs sim numbers plays more to your style and the encounter mechanics. Sims are just that, simulations to Patchwerk like fights. And don't forget all the other issues those sims have, i.e' not reading socket bonuses, not having the gear listed you have equipped, etc.
Felix Baumgartner didn't just rely on sims when his team researched the world record skydive. He went straight to the source of the guy who did it before, getting real info, real experience, real research.

TLR - Stop being lazy, do the minimal research or the zombies will get you.

I won't even bother adressing all the baseless remarks in this post, but I'll just give you one quick fact to chew on: No human brain can run the multiple calculations needed for calculating the most optimal way to reforge. It's not about being stupid, or can you say you can calculate within seconds all the possible ways to reforge your gear? You can easily get good results with simple logic, but if you wan't the best results, you will want to use a computer to do the calculations.

This is about min/maxing and small dps changes - I'm quite sure all the simmers and grinders out there have vastly better knowledge of their class than the average joe who smashes all the buttons until none of them are lit.

[Tehstool]

Wow Reforge can't read my socket bonuses. No thanks.

wowreforge is working perfectly... not sure what you are doing then.

[danko215]

I do this with every new piece of gear I get. It's actually fun to me because numbers are the language of the universe and basically everything ties to numbers. Per your statement, I must not have a human brain. I'll take that as a complement.

EDIT: I should add that the tools were made to make process this easier. Nothing really wrong with using them. However, relying on them to do the work for you does not make for a better player.

[refire]

wowreforge is working perfectly... not sure what you are doing then.

You can load my character and see for yourself...

[Supakaiser]

Does <new piece of gear> have more agility than <current piece of gear> (socketed gems included in both) then BOOM UPGRADE!

[Deleted]

You can load my character and see for yourself...

Confirmed

It is missing the 120+ hit socket bonus from his belt.

It shows he has http://imgur.com/hVOdv 2435 rating, where his armoury say he has 7.51% (or 2555 rating) hit.

You can work around this by adjusting your ratings by the +socket bonus' to hit etc. But not really the point.

[Vyncent]

I do this with every new piece of gear I get. It's actually fun to me because numbers are the language of the universe and basically everything ties to numbers. Per your statement, I must not have a human brain. I'll take that as a complement.

EDIT: I should add that the tools were made to make process this easier. Nothing really wrong with using them. However, relying on them to do the work for you does not make for a better player.

While I agree with you that numbers are the language of the universe, keep in mind that there are many languages and among the billions of people on this planet w/o access to the Internet or anything else, not everyone knows them all, and the vast majority of them find the language of numbers elusive. What might seem easy and simple to you does not mean that everyone can do it, too. If they did, then there would never have been a need for programs/sites like Ask Mr. Robot. Believe me, I was an A+ student in math right through college and I loved the language very much, still do. But that was 20+ years ago, and I have seen MANY people who just could not grasp the language, or worse, were not properly taught how it is done.

Yes, I do use Ask Mr. Robot. Do I totally rely on it? No, especially when it continually tries to insist that I reforge everything into one stat, even though I have set it to not do this. As you state, the real issue is to do the research and learn what you need to accomplish the best needed end result. But that does not mean that everyone has to take everything through the language of math to do it.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

oh come on, use common sense, it's not that hard these days...
with the itemlevel shown on the item, you're good going for higher itemlvl, and choosing the secondary stats according to your priorities.
the only items where itemlvl is not all, are trinkets, but as mentioned before: use common sense. try it out on target dummys / bosses... whats the fun if you just allways do what some addon tells you to do??

[refire]

Confirmed

It is missing the 120+ hit socket bonus from his belt.

It shows he has http://imgur.com/hVOdv 2435 rating, where his armoury say he has 7.51% (or 2555 rating) hit.

You can work around this by adjusting your ratings by the +socket bonus' to hit etc. But not really the point.

Exactly. I posted a bug report to hopefully fix the issues for others but a tool is essentially useless if it's giving me wrong information which is the case in this instance.

[Blackmist]

Does <new piece of gear> have more agility than <current piece of gear> (socketed gems included in both) then BOOM UPGRADE!

Pretty much that. The problem with looking at the rest of the stats is one of reforging. It will always list exp/hit items above everything else, and the truth is that they're not always the best items. You always reforge them to the caps.

The only way I've found to create rough lists of gear is to set the value of hit + exp to the highest other secondary stat. It's not perfect (for example when the item already has that stat and you can't reforge to it) but it's closer than it otherwise would be.

Agi is the only stat that really matters. You might find tiny theoretical increases in DPS by sidegrading to something the same ilvl as you already have, but 90% of the time it's better to let somebody else take it.