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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    So you're going to look at the data and insist that it is wrong in favor of a simplified estimate from over a century ago that fits better with your ideology.

    That's certainly conservatism in a nutshell.

    80/20 is a general guideline and observation, not proclamation of "how things should be" or a goal to strive for. In the USA, it's about 93/20, as shown. In Norway, it's about 71/20 (pg 17).
    There's a difference between income distribution and wealth distribution.

    I see nothing wrong with an 80/20 distribution of wealth.

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    Companies have hired 29hrs a week crap to dodge healthcare benefits for DECADES folks dont let them try to lie to you and say it is Obamacare doing it.
    Obamacare is on the way, hours suddenly get cut to 29.5 and it has nothing to do with obama care. Did i read that right?

  3. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I see nothing wrong with an 80/20 distribution of wealth.
    Yeah, but you don't have an 80/20 distribution. You've got a considerably more lopsided 93/20 distribution.

    That combined with low socioeconomic mobility (as I've previously mentioned either in this thread or a similar one) does show things going wrong.

  4. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    I'm talking monetary value, not sentimental value.

    Raw materials cost lower than the finished product because of manufacturing processes. This process uses labor. Keep in mind, your paycheck doesn't mean wealth is created. It means wealth has been transferred from your employer to yourself.
    You do realize that the wealth that is still underground has almost no monetary value?

    Additionally, huge sums of wealth is created every day within the financial system which merely allocates resources to their most valuable use.

    The total wealth of society can be greatly increase by allocated all the resources to those who value them most. Sitting on five tons of steel in your backyard is worthless for you and society unless you can allocate them better.
    Last edited by mmoc43ae88f2b9; 2012-11-15 at 09:35 PM.

  5. #705
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Obamacare is on the way, hours suddenly get cut to 29.5 and it has nothing to do with obama care. Did i read that right?
    I think his point is that companies have been doing this already, so saying that the AHA is a problem because companies are doing this is to ignore past instances where it has already happened.

    Also, we're going to need to show that correlation equals causation here.

  6. #706
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Obamacare is on the way, hours suddenly get cut to 29.5 and it has nothing to do with obama care. Did i read that right?
    I believe what araine means is it isn't obamacare specifically, but rather just the latest variation on the theme of avoiding paying benefits to the greatest extent possible by playing numbers games.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Yeah, but you don't have an 80/20 distribution. You've got a considerably more lopsided 93/20 distribution.

    That combined with low socioeconomic mobility (as I've previously mentioned either in this thread or a similar one) does show things going wrong.
    The rich actually paying their share is supposed to help with the mobility aspect. Whether it actually does is another matter.

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Obamacare is on the way, hours suddenly get cut to 29.5 and it has nothing to do with obama care. Did i read that right?

    You are 100% right the greed on the top have been going the 29hr route for decades i have seen it happen DECADES before Obama was even running for Senate. I know you dont like him but really blaming him for things business have been doing for decades as part of good business practice to cut costs. And now blaming that on Obamacare.

    The only ones that will fall for this are those that listen to FOX, Rush and Glenn or have never been earning paycheck of his own. Just ask around and you might see your parents or something got 29hr part time jobs at some point there there lifes. That 29hr job was 29hr so they could dodge as much benefits as possible, Business have been doing this for DECADES and blaming it on Obama is just that blame your failure to take care of your workers on someone that has no control over it.

    And after all this 29hr practice have been around for DECADES

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by stumpy View Post
    The rich actually paying their share is supposed to help with the mobility aspect. Whether it actually does is another matter.
    In my 31 years of life, I have yet to see the rich pay their fair share. The day we see that will be one of the best days in world history and one of the days where the worlds elite attempt to play the victims to a level that would qualify as drastic over acting.

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    I believe what araine means is it isn't obamacare specifically, but rather just the latest variation on the theme of avoiding paying benefits to the greatest extent possible by playing numbers games.
    Business like pizza joints etc have been doing it for decades. loopholes like this have always been around. What needs to happen is true public healthcare maybe someday America will enlighten enough to see how broken even Obamacare is since it keeps the core of what is broken namely healthcare insurance companies.

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Yeah, but you don't have an 80/20 distribution. You've got a considerably more lopsided 93/20 distribution.

    That combined with low socioeconomic mobility (as I've previously mentioned either in this thread or a similar one) does show things going wrong.
    A 93/20 distribution says the top 7% holds 93% of the wealth while the bottom 20% holds 20%. Impossible.

    The correct notation would be 93/7.

    If that were even what mattered. Wealth distribution doesn't matter nearly as much as income distribution since no country taxes wealth, only the transfer thereof.

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    In my 31 years of life, I have yet to see the rich pay their fair share. The day we see that will be one of the best days in world history and one of the days where the worlds elite attempt to play the victims to a level that would qualify as drastic over acting.
    Have to agree, i have never seen them pay their fair share. Having folks like the Romneys paying less as a percentage of income than i pay on income that is far far far far lower is just insane. We have class warfare written into the tax code when Romney pays less than most middle class americans pay. And this outrage over having to spend a few cents on a pizza to cover all your workers with healthcare.

    Really it just shows the root of the problems in America today and it is GREED.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    Business like pizza joints etc have been doing it for decades. loopholes like this have always been around. What needs to happen is true public healthcare maybe someday America will enlighten enough to see how broken even Obamacare is since it keeps the core of what is broken namely healthcare insurance companies.
    Switzerland has almost the same system, and no one considers it broken.

    Quit bitching about what you didn't get and be happy for what you did.

  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    Have to agree, i have never seen them pay their fair share. Having folks like the Romneys paying less as a percentage of income than i pay on income that is far far far far lower is just insane. We have class warfare written into the tax code when Romney pays less than most middle class americans pay. And this outrage over having to spend a few cents on a pizza to cover all your workers with healthcare.

    Really it just shows the root of the problems in America today and it is GREED.
    It goes well beyond that. If you notice, almost everyone in power today has inherited it. You rarely, if ever, see someone who has earned a damn thing when it comes down to it. Sure we have a few who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and managed to turn it into platinum (IE Bill Gates) but you have never seen anyone who was born as a bottom of the barrel player who made it to the top. Closest I have seen is the guys who made the TapOut brand of clothing and they haven't hit the level of income I am talking about yet either.

    Well when you have inherited wealth like these people have, you end up having worthless children who have no idea what it is like to actually be human and have a huge disconnect between themselves and the rest of the world where they don't even see us as people but resources to be exploited and to be honest, when they get up to that level of income, they start to judge their own worth as a person based on it and it becomes less about making an income to provide and more about seeing who can get the higher top score.

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    It goes well beyond that. If you notice, almost everyone in power today has inherited it. You rarely, if ever, see someone who has earned a damn thing when it comes down to it. Sure we have a few who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and managed to turn it into platinum (IE Bill Gates) but you have never seen anyone who was born as a bottom of the barrel player who made it to the top. Closest I have seen is the guys who made the TapOut brand of clothing and they haven't hit the level of income I am talking about yet either.
    What about Daymond John?, Mark Cuban? Warren Buffet?

    Most super-wealthy people do not, in fact, inherit their money.

  16. #716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Papa Johns CEO threatens to reduce employee hours or increase pizza prices so he doesn't have to pay for healthcare.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2104202.html


    Murray energy fires 150+ employees in response to Obama re-election.
    http://m.washingtonpost.com/business...684_story.html


    So I guess this is the new thing. Blame layoffs and price increases that were already going to happen on Obama. Murray energy should probably blame the free market for its layoffs, since they are a direct result of the rising competitiveness of Natural Gas via fracking. It's no wonder they deny climate change and lobby for unsafe working conditions to reduce cost.

    Oh look a picture of John Schnatters house. i.imgur.com/T7W2j.png

    Your pizza sucks anyways, John.
    *shakes head*

    Do you really think that corporations pay tax's? What they do is they calculate how much they have to raise their proses to cover their tax debt and pass that on to the consumer.

    In the early 2000's McDonald's got cough up in a several law suits by a kid and his parents claiming that "That McDonald's was to blame for his obesity and associated health problems." his logic was that the food was "addictive because it taste good". Because of our legal system the burden of proof falls on the defendant to prove there is no addictive properties to their food. When the law suit was all said and done it cost them neatly 2 million dollars, later that hear McDonald's raise their prices 0.5 cents on all items to "cover incurred legal expenses"

    When the smoking industry lost the huge smoking class action law suit, almost over night they raised the base prices of their tobacco products by 2 dollars within a year to cover the settlement cost.

    If you think that business are going to "pay for health care" your sorely mistaken, they will pass the cost on to the consumer...

    Is Economic 101 still a required class in high school/collage?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlor
    Deleted half the thread and gave someone a well deserved ban.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, this forum is NOT grammar school, this forum IS a gaming community. We ask everyone to post in their best-as-possible English.

    We do NOT want to see people getting bashed for poor English writing skills. I read the OP's post and I understood him perfectly fine if I put some effort into it. If you are unwilling to put effort into reading a post, please don't put effort in writing your unwanted opinion about it's grammar/spelling/choice of words.

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by Iosif View Post
    *shakes head*

    Do you really think that corporations pay tax's? What they do is they calculate how much they have to raise their proses to cover their tax debt and pass that on to the consumer.

    In the early 2000's McDonald's got cough up in a several law suits by a kid and his parents claiming that "That McDonald's was to blame for his obesity and associated health problems." his logic was that the food was "addictive because it taste good". Because of our legal system the burden of proof falls on the defendant to prove there is no addictive properties to their food. When the law suit was all said and done it cost them neatly 2 million dollars, later that hear McDonald's raise their prices 0.5 cents on all items to "cover incurred legal expenses"

    When the smoking industry lost the huge smoking class action law suit, almost over night they raised the base prices of their tobacco products by 2 dollars within a year to cover the settlement cost.

    If you think that business are going to "pay for health care" your sorely mistaken, they will pass the cost on to the consumer...

    Is Economic 101 still a required class in high school/collage?
    Of course they pass prices on to the consumer.

    If there's anyone who doesn't realize this, they need a serious reality check. This is why I oppose the corporate income tax. It does nothing but increase prices for the consumer.

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    You are 100% right the greed on the top have been going the 29hr route for decades i have seen it happen DECADES before Obama was even running for Senate. I know you dont like him but really blaming him for things business have been doing for decades as part of good business practice to cut costs. And now blaming that on Obamacare.

    The only ones that will fall for this are those that listen to FOX, Rush and Glenn or have never been earning paycheck of his own. Just ask around and you might see your parents or something got 29hr part time jobs at some point there there lifes. That 29hr job was 29hr so they could dodge as much benefits as possible, Business have been doing this for DECADES and blaming it on Obama is just that blame your failure to take care of your workers on someone that has no control over it.

    And after all this 29hr practice have been around for DECADES
    Benefits were taken out of your pay, it was your option...

    The 29 hour thing is because employers have to pay if you work 30. Are you referring to the 40 hour week by chance? Really have no clue what your talking about, with your line about fox news and rush, i dont think its worth looking into.

  19. #719
    I stand corrected on the individuals you linked but the study you linked was not at the level I was talking about. I wasn't talking about people who barely pass of millionaires, I was talking about players who ranked into the billions. But thank you for the correction. Most of the rich people I see are ones who got their money from mommy and daddy or were "self made" even though they had millions before they started.

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I stand corrected on the individuals you linked but the study you linked was not at the level I was talking about. I wasn't talking about people who barely pass of millionaires, I was talking about players who ranked into the billions. But thank you for the correction. Most of the rich people I see are ones who got their money from mommy and daddy or were "self made" even though they had millions before they started.
    Do you realize that there are only 400 people in the United States who have $1 billion in net assets? Almost none of them are heirs.

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