CRZ is stupid

[Peacemoon]

You don't seem to understand. When the game shipped many people were leveling. Zones had actual populations rather than just one or two people leveling and the random person wandering through. CRZ didn't just make "one almighty large PvP realm" it brought zone populations back up to their intended level.

A few points here:

*We're always being told not to harper back to the 'good old times', but it seems like Blizzard and their supporters here should take their own advice. You can't recreate the past, especially not with CRZ. The game, like I said, was very different back then CRZ is creating a very different experience with very perverse incentives.

*Cross realm anything removes personal reputation from the equation so just by being introduced the amount of griefing, ganking, camping and general ass-hattery will increase substantially. "You rolled on a PvP realm" might be a technically correct observation, but everyone spouting that is missing the real issue here. Gankers before CRZ were 'known gankers', and you could anticipate what they would be up to. These days its a pure free for all.

*Blizzard went through the entire levelling experience and removed any requirement for multiple people to team together in order to level. No more group quests. No more challenging mobs or elites. So to put it blatantly, what is the point? 'Intended population levels' sounds like corporate speak to me in order to cover their own backsides. If there is an 'intended population level', it was very likely introduced recently and specifically to justify their CRZ proposal, or in response to the wave of criticism that people weren't leaving their capital cities any more and focusing solely on instanced PvE or PvP.

[jeremynative]

I thought it was pretty good until I got to searing gorge and had a quest in an area that had a archaeology site. I couldn't even resurrect for a second before some random 90 player one shot me while doing archaeology

[Deleted]

Seriously. It seems like most of these posts are from people who are scared of having to PvP on a PvP server, or can't be bothered.

---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 04:33 PM ----------

I thought it was pretty good until I got to searing gorge and had a quest in an area that had a archaeology site. I couldn't even resurrect for a second before some random 90 player one shot me while doing archaeology

Level up to 90 and be prepared to defend yourself at all times on a PvP server.

This could have happened with or without CRZ, for the 500th time.

[Deleted]

I agree with you in principle, but the reality is that CRZ brought some world pvp action back, at least.

I play on a server that is so horde dominated that alliance players are a very, very, very rare sight. Now that our CRZ includes Sargeras, a server that is the opposite, and its a very refreshing change to see action in the world.

Oh ye I fully accept that CRZ is fixing something that was promised way back at the start of the game, I can just also see the reasons why some people are more than a little pissed off with it. It's a big change after a long period of world calm, even on the most pvpish of servers.

[Deleted]

How is this thread title STILL not changed?

Because its a paradox

[ReallyNotKonway]

Cross realm everything is terrible. Let's go back to spamming LFG in trade chat all day every day.

[Deleted]

I have every sympathy.

Few things

1) You joined a PVP server so suck it up, you say? Yes. 1 server. Not 15 of them merging together on the fly. Every server has an angwe type or two, but not dozens of them. Stick multiple servers together and you have several unavoidable angwes at all times.

2) Pvp servers have been a world pvp joke for at least 4 years, if not longer. If you were to have started up your toon at any time up until the week before mop released, your experience and therefore expectation of a pvp server was maybe having to fight over a mining node once every 3 weeks. Finding a wprld fight would actually have required some effort or imagination. Not having max level players one shot you over and over with no let up.

3) Maybe you are like me and joined a pvp during vanilla. Remember those times? No flying mounts mean avoiding world pvp was as easy as line of sighting your would be ganker. Good luck doing that now, the buzzards circle you endlessly. And yes, SS/TM was loads of fun....but you could walk away from it any time you liked.

4) Maybe the big one if you are still genuinely into your world pvp. When RandomDwarf from <Whatguild?> from the server <Fuckknows!> kills you, you might never see him ever again. You can't do the old vanilla thing of finding the stumpy little shit in IF and offing him while he was doing his Ahing.

CRZ has all the shit bits of world pvp without the really good stuff. Faceless, unavoidable ganking that's arrived as if from nowhere after 4 or 5 relatively peaceful years.

Sorry, but I disagree. The low-level zones may feel crowded to some, but they are still nowhere close to what they were in Vanilla. My first character was levelled on a newly-opened PvP realm that was started to alleviate some high-pop realms, which meant having both a goodly amount of same-level players sharing the zones as well as an established level 60 community from the get-go.

And yes, it was tough. I was attacked lots and ganked even more often. I still firmly believe that I was killed more by level 60's than the rest of the levels combined. And you know, in the end I enjoyed it. It was a challenge that genuinely felt fulfilling when you were doing well. You had to learn how to deal with the situation or suffer because of it. And I had to do it all.. trying to make myself as inconspicuous as possible to avoid ganks while going after quest mobs in crowded areas. Grind in remote areas because the more travelled parts were just too dangerous. Have a backup area or two to go to in case I got camped. Befriend other players in the zone and have guildies willing to come over and get you out of a tough spot. Heck, I have had to log out once or twice in disgust because I just couldn't get anything done.

But complain about it on the forums? No, that thought never occured to me. It wasn't about racing to max level back in the day. The journey was as important as the destination, for which I am grateful, because not only was the road to 60 a lot of fun, speedbumps included, but the moment I reached level 60 was so incredibly fulfilling that it instantly validated all the blood, sweat and tears I endured along the way. It became a badge of pride have survived all the way and live to tell the horror-stories to new guildmates as I rode over to their corpses to help them out with a stubborn ganker.

Don't tell me today's players have it hard. They just don't know any better. I eventually got tired of the notion of getting ganked while levelling, moved to a PvE realm sometime during the Burning Crusade and never looked back and they have the exact same option available to them if getting ganked is not their cup of tea. When you roll a character on a PvP realm and don't see any red-flagged character for several zones, you should frankly be disappointed and I for one am glad that the lowbie zones feel more alive again these days.

Thank you for reading.

[Xargoth6634]

The thing that frustrates me about CRZ is trying to level professions. I've just gotten around recently to leveling herb/mining on new toons, and it's damn near impossible from BC-Cata zones, with so many people farming. I don't even want the damn ore/herbs, I just want to level my fucking professions.

[Bombkirby]

Honestly people, this is probably one of those "silent majority" things. I do not know a single friend who has a problem with CRZ, so naturally we don't complain about it or even make "we love it!" threads. Only on the Internet do I see the occasional thread about CRZ QQ with the same 20 people posting in them to give the threads the illusion of popularity. I'm perfectly happy that Azeroth isn't a ghost town. Its hardly a big deal. I don't see people fighting for nodes. I don't see people getting ganked 100% of the time. It probably happened like twice and you guys blocked out all of the good memories with the 2 bad ones.

[Peacemoon]

I have every sympathy.

Few things

1) You joined a PVP server so suck it up, you say? Yes. 1 server. Not 15 of them merging together on the fly. Every server has an angwe type or two, but not dozens of them. Stick multiple servers together and you have several unavoidable angwes at all times.

2) Pvp servers have been a world pvp joke for at least 4 years, if not longer. If you were to have started up your toon at any time up until the week before mop released, your experience and therefore expectation of a pvp server was maybe having to fight over a mining node once every 3 weeks. Finding a wprld fight would actually have required some effort or imagination. Not having max level players one shot you over and over with no let up.

3) Maybe you are like me and joined a pvp during vanilla. Remember those times? No flying mounts mean avoiding world pvp was as easy as line of sighting your would be ganker. Good luck doing that now, the buzzards circle you endlessly. And yes, SS/TM was loads of fun....but you could walk away from it any time you liked.

4) Maybe the big one if you are still genuinely into your world pvp. When RandomDwarf from <Whatguild?> from the server <Fuckknows!> kills you, you might never see him ever again. You can't do the old vanilla thing of finding the stumpy little shit in IF and offing him while he was doing his Ahing.

CRZ has all the shit bits of world pvp without the really good stuff. Faceless, unavoidable ganking that's arrived as if from nowhere after 4 or 5 relatively peaceful years.

Agree completely with this post. Its much more complicated then simply not liking PvP but playing on a PvP realm. If you really believe its just that then you are not doing a very good job of analysing the issues here - and that is your problem not ours. I've always played on a PvP realm since Vanilla, so im no lightweight to ganking/being ganked

[smegdawg]

Short answer get in a better guild.

The second time this high leveled player killed me I would have been typing to my guild and asking for help. I would have gotten 4-5 responses saying be there in a second. And that is on a PvE server.

[Deleted]

Sorry, but I disagree. The low-level zones may feel crowded to some, but they are still nowhere close to what they were in Vanilla. My first character was levelled on a newly-opened PvP realm that was started to alleviate some high-pop realms, which meant having both a goodly amount of same-level players sharing the zones as well as an established level 60 community from the get-go.

Same level players fighting on 40% speed ground mounts is a bit different to being bombed from above by something 45 levels higher.

And yes, it was tough. I was attacked lots and ganked even more often. I still firmly believe that I was killed more by level 60's than the rest of the levels combined. And you know, in the end I enjoyed it. It was a challenge that genuinely felt fulfilling when you were doing well. You had to learn how to deal with the situation or suffer because of it. And I had to do it all.. trying to make myself as inconspicuous as possible to avoid ganks while going after quest mobs in crowded areas. Grind in remote areas because the more travelled parts were just too dangerous. Have a backup area or two to go to in case I got camped. Befriend other players in the zone and have guildies willing to come over and get you out of a tough spot. Heck, I have had to log out once or twice in disgust because I just couldn't get anything done.

Ok, good for you.

But complain about it on the forums? No, that thought never occured to me. It wasn't about racing to max level back in the day. The journey was as important as the destination, for which I am grateful, because not only was the road to 60 a lot of fun, speedbumps included, but the moment I reached level 60 was so incredibly fulfilling that it instantly validated all the blood, sweat and tears I endured along the way. It became a badge of pride have survived all the way and live to tell the horror-stories to new guildmates as I rode over to their corpses to help them out with a stubborn ganker.

With CRZ you often aren't racing anywhere but back to your corpse or to the "log out" button. There is no comparison between vanilla ground based levelling and a world full of ganky death on flying mounts.

Don't tell me today's players have it hard. They just don't know any better. I eventually got tired of the notion of getting ganked while levelling, moved to a PvE realm sometime during the Burning Crusade and never looked back and they have the exact same option available to them if getting ganked is not their cup of tea. When you roll a character on a PvP realm and don't see any red-flagged character for several zones, you should frankly be disappointed and I for one am glad that the lowbie zones feel more alive again these days.

Thank you for reading.

There was world pvp in TBC comparable to the CRZ level?

Not even remotely.

[Deleted]

Honestly people, this is probably one of those "silent majority" things. I do not know a single friend who has a problem with CRZ, so naturally we don't complain about it or even make "we love it!" threads. Only on the Internet do I see the occasional thread about CRZ QQ with the same 20 people posting in them to give the threads the illusion of popularity. I'm perfectly happy that Azeroth isn't a ghost town. Its hardly a big deal. I don't see people fighting for nodes. I don't see people getting ganked 100% of the time. It probably happened like twice and you guys blocked out all of the good memories with the 2 bad ones.

Correct, selection bias is very common and it's probably behind 90% of complaint threads. Hardly any complaint threads offer genuine unbiased criticism or suggestions for improvement. It's like, "I got ganked once after CRZ came in, therefore CRZ is terrible and needs to be removed".

[strangerdanger]

Maybe be the problem lies within the players that do the ganking continuously and not CRZ itself..

I've actually really enjoyed CRZ. I level a lot of alts and I enjoy seeing people run around and I now have several friends from other servers. It's much easier to form groups at lower levels also instead of queueing for dungeon finder and getting stuck with baddies.

*shrug* maybe I'm the only one that actually enjoys crz.

[Dasffion]

A few points here:

*We're always being told not to harper back to the 'good old times', but it seems like Blizzard and their supporters here should take their own advice. You can't recreate the past, especially not with CRZ. The game, like I said, was very different back then CRZ is creating a very different experience with very perverse incentives.

This isn't trying to recreate the past, this is trying to make an MMO feel like an MMO at all levels. I spend a lot of time on the New Player forum on the Official site and a question that is often asked by people wanting to come back is "Does leveling still feel like a ghostland?". Most people want to see others out in the world.

*Cross realm anything removes personal reputation from the equation so just by being introduced the amount of griefing, ganking, camping and general ass-hattery will increase substantially. "You rolled on a PvP realm" might be a technically correct observation, but everyone spouting that is missing the real issue here. Gankers before CRZ were 'known gankers', and you could anticipate what they would be up to. These days its a pure free for all.

Not all gankers were "known gankers" and it doesn't change the fact that they would gank. It doesn't change the fact that if someone is ganking you call in the Calvary, they're not waiting around for that "known ganker" to show up because while you might be able to anicipate what they would be up to you can't anticipate where. People will still eventually get 'blacklisted' and put on KOS lists. It just might take a bit longer.

*Blizzard went through the entire levelling experience and removed any requirement for multiple people to team together in order to level. No more group quests. No more challenging mobs or elites. So to put it blatantly, what is the point? 'Intended population levels' sounds like corporate speak to me in order to cover their own backsides. If there is an 'intended population level', it was very likely introduced recently and specifically to justify their CRZ proposal, or in response to the wave of criticism that people weren't leaving their capital cities any more and focusing solely on instanced PvE or PvP.

[/quote]

See my first response. The last part of your response though is starting to sound very "Tinfoil hat" like.

[capitano666]

How does this matter? If you roll on a pvp server, you're accepting the fact that somebody can camp you like they are.

Well yes it does matter, it's the same issue of LFG/LFR: people being assholes because they are not paying the social price anymore.

[Rivellana]

Wow...fifteen pages of people arguing about the same thing they've been arguing about in every other thread that's been made on this issue. Impressive.

That being said, I don't agree with CRZ and haven't since they implemented it. I sincerely doubt that the people who thus yell "Go roll on a pve server!" as the sole response to anyone who complains about CRZ on their pvp server have yet tried to level a new character since it came out.

Yes, I play on a PvP server, and yes, I don't like CRZ. I also rolled a fresh monk a few weeks after the expansion launched and have experienced everything people have talked about. In the lower zones, while trying to quest I was met with tons of people of my own faction and the inability to even find quest mobs to kill or nodes to level since they were all already taken. As I went on, I found several zones that were camped non-stop by 90s of the opposite faction...flying around on their flying mounts dropping down out of the sky to one shot level 30s or level 60s over and over. I will never grasp the reasoning behind this. If you're 90 in full pvp gear, why exactly are you hanging out in a lowbie area for hours just to one shot people that can't defend themselves?

All in all, it's not a simple case to just tell people "Go roll a pve server". I've played on both sides of my extremely low population, faction extremely unbalanced server since I started playing the game six years ago. When I rolled on the server it was pretty balanced and a decent population...and as I've leveled more and more characters there over the years in relative peace, and found friends and guilds that I like to play with, I've stayed. Now leveling has been tossed into chaos because CRZ was brought into the mix.

Someone doesn't like CRZ and your solution to them is nothing more than "Ha! You don't like it? Go leave your guild, all your friends, all your characters and the server you've been on since nearly the start of the game and play pve!" If you're one of the gankers, you probably don't realize it but that's what you're making the people you're camping have to go do anyways...instead of questing they're forced to level mostly in dungeons. From the sounds of it, pve server CRZ wouldn't help the issue anyways since everyone is always fighting over nodes and quest mobs.

I kind of doubt this feature will stop being a point of contention amongst players for quite some time.

[capitano666]

Not all gankers were "known gankers" and it doesn't change the fact that they would gank. It doesn't change the fact that if someone is ganking you call in the Calvary, they're not waiting around for that "known ganker" to show up because while you might be able to anicipate what they would be up to you can't anticipate where. People will still eventually get 'blacklisted' and put on KOS lists. It just might take a bit longer.

I doubt this will be possible on the scale of players we're talking about, you are likely to not meet that player anymore and he will be "unpunished".

[Anjerith]

Group with someone on a PvE server, as long as they are the leader - and you dont group with more PvP players than PvE, you will be able to enjoy leveling worry-free.

[Shoridayo]

It will be said over and over...

You rolled on a pvp server.

He said that he's used to, and okay with being ganked. But he can't respawn at all.
Are you saying that it's his fault for this rogue to be camping him for 2 hours?
Blizzard used to temporarily ban players for doing that, but now they don't do a damn thing. I don't really mind CRZ, but that's because I play on a PvE server. All too often I see people complaining of CRZ making them get ganked for hours.

I just fail to see how that's fair. PvP server or not.