Welcome to the Jungle: Season 3 Changes

[Xanjori]

So if theres 10 champions that get picked/banned in 90% of games and 60 that get picked/banned once in a tourney thats diversity?

My gripe is that you always see the same lane setup. semi carry top, semi carry mid, hard carry+babysitter bot, initiator jungle.
I hope that with the S3 changes we may see more melee carries, farming supports, mid game teamcomps, pushing comps, ganking comps etc.

Have you not watched a single tournament in the past 2 months?

[Pandragon]

Whether or not Fid could jungle well in the new jungle. His weakness is that he is very easy to counter jungle. Everytime I see a Fid jungle I take out blue, wolves, then head right for his wraiths where I kill him, or force his flash. But the faster clearing time might help loads with that letting him move quicker. It would be nice to see more magi-junglers.

BTW, has there been any visual change to the jungle? Or is it all the same just different exp and gold and what not?

Trolling kids like this is why we can't have nice things.

Have you even read anything Riot has said about the new jungle. Single target champions will clear faster then they are now. You need to learn what trolling is.

[Thallidomaniac]

BTW, has there been any visual change to the jungle? Or is it all the same just different exp and gold and what not?

So far, no visual changes other that a few positions of the mobs being changed. (notably the Wraiths)

And how's jungle Darius faring so far with the changes?

[Pandragon]

The new machete doesn't seem to really do much in killing the monsters faster imo.

[TequilaFlavor]

Im not sure where you get 20-25, at most small tournaments consisting of perhaps 6 teams we see upwards of 40 champs in use, Id bet there was over 50 champs used at the season 2 finals.

Let's just take the whole season 2 finals as reference here (I watched all games on the VoDs from start to finish).

Champions that had more than 1 or 2 uses/bans throughout the ENTIRE tournament (including group stage).


Top: Jayce, Shen, Vladimir, Irelia, Olaf, Jax, Yorick, Malphite, Nidalee.

Mid: Karthus, Anivia, Orianna, Lux,, Evelynn, Morgana.

Carry: Ezreal, Graves, Corki, Vayne, Kog'maw.

Support: Blitzcrank, Sona, Taric, Leona, Nunu.

Jungle: Dr. Mundo, Skarner, Maokai, Shivana, Shen, Olaf.


That makes it 30, Shen and Olaf being used in the jungle aswell as top lane.

I'm sure I forgot a few that got exactly 2 uses/bans, but even out of the champions mentioned, you only saw about 20 really used frequently (imho):


Top: Shen, Jayce, Vladimir, Irelia.

Mid: Karthus, Orianna, Anivia, Evelynn, Lux.

Carry: Ezreal, Kog'maw, Graves, Vayne.

Support: Blitzcrank, Sona, Leona, Nunu.

Jungle: Dr. Mundo, Skarner, Maokai, (Shen).

[Duilliath]

The new machete doesn't seem to really do much in killing the monsters faster imo.

It essentially has the wriggles proc and can be bought as starter item. It has an upgrade, for AP and AD. It's insanely good.

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 11:03 AM ----------

So if theres 10 champions that get picked/banned in 90% of games and 60 that get picked/banned once in a tourney thats diversity?

My gripe is that you always see the same lane setup. semi carry top, semi carry mid, hard carry+babysitter bot, initiator jungle.
I hope that with the S3 changes we may see more melee carries, farming supports, mid game teamcomps, pushing comps, ganking comps etc.

Find another game, not gonna happen.

Zileas and a few more (Morello, probably), spoke extensively on this. If you define meta by its lanes, then no - it's not likely to change on account of this being the most 'profitable'. If you look at team comps, then yes there's variety.

0 CS support is not going away. AD/AP/Front Line/Jungler is not going away.

More champs might become viable in certain spots (top lane will be a lot safer without lvl 2 ganks), but what you consider the meta is going to largely stay the same on account of its sheer efficiency.

[TequilaFlavor]

It essentially has the wriggles proc and can be bought as starter item. It has an upgrade, for AP and AD. It's insanely good.

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 11:03 AM ----------



Find another game, not gonna happen.

Zileas and a few more (Morello, probably), spoke extensively on this. If you define meta by its lanes, then no - it's not likely to change on account of this being the most 'profitable'. If you look at team comps, then yes there's variety.

0 CS support is not going away. AD/AP/Front Line/Jungler is not going away.

More champs might become viable in certain spots (top lane will be a lot safer without lvl 2 ganks), but what you consider the meta is going to largely stay the same on account of its sheer efficiency.

I still think Riot should work on making all champions as viable as possible without overtuning them.

Diversity is the spice of life and that goes for gaming aswell.

[Duilliath]

There's a difference in viability, always.

There's 3 game modes. Some weak champs in SR are insanely powerful in Dominion. What works at 150 Elo might not at 1500 or 2500. A while ago we saw Bennyrosso complain about his AoE ult teamcomp, whereas a 2500 player might've giggled in glee over the endless possibilities.

A 1100 Annie can be much more of a threat than a 2500 one.

[TequilaFlavor]

There's a difference in viability, always.

There's 3 game modes. Some weak champs in SR are insanely powerful in Dominion. What works at 150 Elo might not at 1500 or 2500. A while ago we saw Bennyrosso complain about his AoE ult teamcomp, whereas a 2500 player might've giggled in glee over the endless possibilities.

A 1100 Annie can be much more of a threat than a 2500 one.

I was only talking about top level SR play as my example was the Season 2 finals.

I don't like the idea of certain champions only being viable on Dominion/3v3/low elo, although I'll admit it would be hard to balance.

[Elial]

I was only talking about top level SR play as my example was the Season 2 finals.

I don't like the idea of certain champions only being viable on Dominion/3v3/low elo, although I'll admit it would be hard to balance.

Top play tends to follow "Safe" picks more than simply viable picks in general. The balance gap isn't as large as some people tend to claim.

[Deleted]

There's a difference in viability, always.

There's 3 game modes. Some weak champs in SR are insanely powerful in Dominion. What works at 150 Elo might not at 1500 or 2500. A while ago we saw Bennyrosso complain about his AoE ult teamcomp, whereas a 2500 player might've giggled in glee over the endless possibilities.

A 1100 Annie can be much more of a threat than a 2500 one.

The sad part that some of champions are always viable, yet their mechanics do not differ for low/high elo.
The prime and worst example is Nunu, the sole difference between those two players will be anything that may apply to everyone, like map attention, positioning, buy order, etc... But every single retard can press w on your carry and e on theirs.

[Axethor]

The new machete doesn't seem to really do much in killing the monsters faster imo.

Try killing the new jungle without the machete though. What it does, essentially, is bring the new jungles clear speed to that of the old jungle with boot + 3 or cloth + 5. Did you see stonewall's lee sin video? Without the machete you get murdered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSecJ3tG6Kc&feature=plcp

[Pandragon]

Try killing the new jungle without the machete though. What it does, essentially, is bring the new jungles clear speed to that of the old jungle with boot + 3 or cloth + 5. Did you see stonewall's lee sin video? Without the machete you get murdered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSecJ3tG6Kc&feature=plcp

ok. I must not have been paying very good attention while using it.

[Deleted]

I just saw this now.

Even won't be able to survive the new jungle? Damn. I guess, she was already pretty squishy for it and since it's getting harder, yeah.

[Thallidomaniac]

There's a difference in viability, always.

There's 3 game modes. Some weak champs in SR are insanely powerful in Dominion. What works at 150 Elo might not at 1500 or 2500. A while ago we saw Bennyrosso complain about his AoE ult teamcomp, whereas a 2500 player might've giggled in glee over the endless possibilities.

A 1100 Annie can be much more of a threat than a 2500 one.

There's also champs that are unviable in every game mode, i.e. nerfed Eve and release Syndra, and the only reason people win with them is either because a teammate hard carried them, or the enemy team played poorly.

Not to mention some champs are Godmode in ARAM, (Yi, Lux, Jayce, Blitzcrank) and others are just absolute shit. (Udyr)

[Elial]

I just saw this now.

Even won't be able to survive the new jungle? Damn. I guess, she was already pretty squishy for it and since it's getting harder, yeah.

I strongly suspect that a large cause of this was because the junglers were essentially giving up their entire jungle to the other lanes while just floating around with gp/5. That by Riot is fine but the lanes suffered no penalty to this so instead they decided to give a mandatory jungle item so junglers aren't affected that much but the other lanes get punished slightly more when they take the jungle.

I watched all of stonewalls videos and he pretty much just said that all the junglers have pretty much the same clear speed except one or two. Also a few started shining even more (Diana as an example). So Riot is essentially killing 2 birds with one stone. A) Stopping laners to steal jungle without penalty. B) Opening up more jungle possiblities.

I think Zyra could possibly be a strong jungler in S3 with her vines tanking the minions etc.

[Duilliath]

I honestly don't count ARAM. There's just no point.

At least count, there's around 60 champs used/picked in Tournament play. Excluding clearly unfavourable champs (read: Assassins/Melee carries) and accepting the fact that most teams follow a some-what standard build as well as accepting the fact that each player has their own favourites (see: Froggen), it's hardly surprising we don't see 90+ used.

[jaeroll]

I thought jungling would be harder...