CEO's blame layoffs and reduced hours on Obama re-election

[Spectral]

I don't know why we don't copy German policy. They have insurance with a public plan, yet it is where athletes like A-Rod and Koby get their priceless knees fixed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

For healthcare, or more generally? Not everyone can run account surpluses. It's literally impossible.

[Riidii]

Which one of the dozens of countries?

The system of free healthcare, free education and generous welfare.

And the worst is still yet to come in terms of the Euro recession.

[Felya]

America voted for Obama, Obama wants to increase taxes on the rich, the rich aren't going to accept the cuts and instead will cut workforce to stabilize their own income. Therefore, a vote for Obama is a vote for higher unemployment.

To think this wouldn't happen is extremely ignorant. Don't demonize the CEOs, demonize the politicians that are forcing business to take action to comply with ridiculous regulations.

This is very few businesses, taking out their frustration. I live in Seattle, we had the highest growth in Boeing hiring as of 2005, which is happening right now with a k highered just this Friday. Microsoft is and has been revving up hiring as well, because there is nothing that Obama has done to slow down the release of windows 8 that he has done to one pizza place. This year was the first year in quite a while when I was pursued by an employer and had to tell them no.

When you ate firing people, while others in your field are not, what are you doing wrong? At which point do we lay blame on corporations that are laying people off for mismanagement, instead of only praising them when they hire? Why are failures leading them to lay people off, blamed on government, while the success they had us their own doing?

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 05:46 PM ----------

The system of free healthcare, free education and generous welfare.

And the worst is still yet to come in terms of the Euro recession.

What about Germany? What about a country that has far less natural resources than us, that is doing arguably the best out of the whole Eurozone? You know, the country that has a public option and yet is so good that American athletes go there to get priceless bodies fixed?

Germany is doing so well, despite not even being a whole country around 25 years ago.

[belfpala]

How about the flipside? If you reduce taxes on me, I'm not going to hire more people. I'm running my business properly. We're optimally staffed. So I'd just pocket that money.

[Deleted]

How about the flipside? If you reduce taxes on me, I'm not going to hire more people. I'm running my business properly. We're optimally staffed. So I'd just pocket that money.

Reduce taxes on the company, the owner or the CEO?

[Riidii]

What about Germany? What about a country that has far less natural resources than us, that is doing arguably the best out of the whole Eurozone? You know, the country that has a public option and yet is so good that American athletes go there to get priceless bodies fixed?

Germany is doing so well, despite not even being a whole country around 25 years ago.

Woh woh woh.

Kobe Bryant and others went to Germany for the procedure because doctors can't do it in the US.

Doesn't mean the healthcare is better.

[Felya]

You also have to look at the Dow when you talk about Obama effecting corporations. The value of these corporations through the stock market has nearly double from the bottom it hit during the recession. Obama has not been bad for big business at all. Despite him being president, the Bush tax cuts have continued and despite his rhetoric will most likley continue. Under Obama's presidency the Supreme court granted unprecedented rights to corporations thought Citizens United. He continued the TARP bail outs and bailed out the big business that is our automotive industry.

Is Papa John's pissed Obama didn't give them a bail out? Let's look at Papa John's profit gains under Obama, but that success was business acumen, it's only government's fault when their failing.

[Masark]

Democrats repeals Glass-Steagal, then blame Republicans for 2007 subprime crisis.

Glass-Steagal was nothing more than a last straw. No such law exists in Canada, but the rest of our regulatory system allowed us to weather the storm better.

[Felya]

Woh woh woh.

Kobe Bryant and others went to Germany for the procedure because doctors can't do it in the US.

Doesn't mean the healthcare is better.

No, all the other statistics say it's better. The fact that our athletes go there is a reflection of how more effective their system is. Only 15% of the country is not on public insurance, yet they have the know how for our athletes to trust them. Their success, Kobe is still a beast, is a reflection of government take over not being a strain on progress or innovation.

[jmt]

Let me clear up common misconceptions that people outside of the US tend to have about Americans:

1) There is not one person in America that does not have access to healthcare. Whether or not they can afford the bills after the fact is the issue.

2) Americans aren't opposed to paying into systems that helps others in their time of need. However, people in America are opposed to the rampant abuse that occurs in those systems and the fact that they are poorly run (in large).

3) Everyone in the US would like healthcare to be more affordable.

Take Sweden for example. Swedes pay somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% of their income in taxes. However, most of them seemingly are ok with it because they realize the value of those taxes through other benefits like education, healthcare, public transportation, etc.

In the US, our public education (prior to college) is garbage. Our healthcare system is top notch, but expensive. Our public transportation is essentially non existent outside of the largest cities (+2mil people). Our welfare benefits are average, but abused. And when you consider that only half of the US is actually paying federal income taxes, it upsets those of us that are the ones putting in the money.

I have about $500 taken out of my paycheck every two weeks that goes straight to the federal government. Personally, I don't feel like I'm realizing much benefit from it and that's what is upsetting to me.

[belfpala]

Reduce taxes on the company, the owner or the CEO?

They're related, but specifically I meant the company. The only way a tax reduction would result in me hiring more people is if it created more disposable income, largely in low- to middle-class folks, and thereby generated more business for me. That's an "if" by the way.

[Riidii]

No, all the other statistics say it's better. The fact that our athletes go there is a reflection of how more effective their system is. Only 15% of the country is not on public insurance, yet they have the know how for our athletes to trust them. Their success, Kobe is still a beast, is a reflection of government take over not being a strain on progress or innovation.

The fact that our athletes go there is a reflection on how inefficient the FDA is.

[jmt]

No, all the other statistics say it's better. The fact that our athletes go there is a reflection of how more effective their system is. Only 15% of the country is not on public insurance, yet they have the know how for our athletes to trust them. Their success, Kobe is still a beast, is a reflection of government take over not being a strain on progress or innovation.

Just to clarify, the government intervened. They do not have sole control of their system.

[Felya]

Glass-Steagal was nothing more than a last straw. No such law exists in Canada, but the rest of our regulatory system allowed us to weather the storm better.

It wasn't democrats either. It was called the grham-leech-baily act, after the 3 republicans that wrote it and pushed it. A republican controlled house and senate, pushed it with overwhelming support by republicans. The only fault democrats have here, is Clinton not vetoing a popular bill passed by congress. But, even than, as part of the deal to sign it, Clinton actually got school funding passed in return. It's the same thing as when they blame Clinton for NAFTA, a bill again heavily pushed by republicans and Bush senior while president. The nearly complete work of Bush was there and being pushed by republican when Clinton took office. NAFTA started to be built, way before Clinton was in office.

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 06:07 PM ----------

The fact that our athletes go there is a reflection on how inefficient the FDA is.

What about their life expectancy and cost? Is that FDA as well?

[Wildtree]

What about Germany? What about a country that has far less natural resources than us, that is doing arguably the best out of the whole Eurozone? You know, the country that has a public option and yet is so good that American athletes go there to get priceless bodies fixed?

Germany is doing so well, despite not even being a whole country around 25 years ago.

I wonder that too.. Especially looking at natural resources alone.
The only thing Germany really has in large amounts is brown coal, yet we still import 21% coal from Russia. As well as we import 41% of natural gas, and 31% of oil from Russia.
In my younger days I was very left leaning. Left from the SPD. When getting older, I shifted kinda to the center. One comes to reason and starts to respect good ideas no matter from which side they originate. One thing however never changed.
I too believe in "free" (because it isn't free at all, just intelligent organized) healthcare, and Welfare.

People come first.

[Felya]

Just to clarify, the government intervened. They do not have sole control of their system.

What do you mean? There is private insurance, but it's also heavily regulated. Government has sole control of the system, with private insurance operating within their jurisdiction.

[Riidii]

What about their life expectancy and cost? Is that FDA as well?

But that's not why Kobe Bryant went there.

You said a couple of posts ago that is was because of their progress and innovation.

Which is completely false.

[Felya]

I wonder that too.. Especially looking at natural resources alone.
The only thing Germany really has in large amounts is brown coal, yet we still import 21% coal from Russia. As well as we import 41% of natural gas, and 31% of oil from Russia.
In my younger days I was very left leaning. Left from the SPD. When getting older, I shifted kinda to the center. One comes to reason and starts to respect good ideas no matter from which side they originate. One thing however never changed.
I too believe in "free" (because it isn't free at all, just intelligent organized) healthcare, and Welfare.

People come first.

They were not even a whole country 25 years ago. That is amazing...

[mvaliz]

Getting involved... Just as a swedish person, who also live around in europe, mostly France and Irland.
Don't paint Europe to be some sort of golden place as we all walk around feeling fucking fine and dandy

But i'll tell you all this, thank (not god) society that I have free healthcare, I could afford to go private(Cause see, we have OPTIONS), but why would I?
I pay 32, or 34% tax of what I make(haven't checked in a while) and don't really care. As with that I get much back.

Let me just say this, I'm very much into making as much money as I can.
And do I get upset with people living of our good welfare system just cause they're lazy, fuck yea I do.
Do I mind people that actually need welfare or healthcare for whatever reason to get it, not in a milion years.
Cause looking at it, life is a rollercoaster, doesn't matter if you're bill gates, shit can happen, and I for one would like to know I have my society and goverment backing me up.

And not to say Sweden is in the shitter right now, cause we really are. People getting layed off all over the place, companies trying to lower salary down to about 8 dollars and hours(I KNOW this is perhaps over what is in America, but that's way to low for our standards).

What I don't get, is why it's the "me against everyone"-idea from some in America, The CEO will want to make money, let him. But why do people feel like fucking other over just cause they're not as lucky or fortunate as you?
What happened to helping your fellow man out, someday it could be you standing there and needing help, wouldn't you want it?

Ain't a socialist, I'm actually more right wing then left, still belive in healthcare for all and welfare

First of - beautiful post! ^_^

As a fellow American of 39 years I can offer you my personal take on what you asked right there in the boldface.

There are a couple reasons for this... not just one.

The first reason - Competition. America (and American capitalism in general) has beaten it into our heads that competing with your neighbors is supposed to be a good thing. Supposedly competition was to drive down product prices and supposedly drive people to find cheaper and alternative ways to out-perform their competitor. Supposed result is the consumer is supposed to win via obtaining cheaper products.

What in reality has happened is that human emotion and greed took over and the competition craze has gone into an unsustainable tornado. In the name of competition, fellow Americans began sacrificing the very lives of the people whom their products were meant for in the first place. Food quality is cheapened for competition reasons, jobs get taken from Americans and sent to other countries for competition reasons, migrant undocumented workers replace American workers for competition reasons, ect...

The second reason - News sources sacrificing quality for shock-value for ratings grabs. Right now, Americans are literally making decisions off of regurgitated news... decimated and twisted into something that is designed for polarizing ideologies all in the name of rating. Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Rachel Maddow, Sean Hannidey, John Stewart, Bill O'Reiley and Steve Colbert are all in the exact same business as Freddy Kruger - designing nightmares to scare you so you keep watching them. The problem is, people believe them, thinking they're an accurate news source giving them the "REAL" news... which is nothing more or less than them deliberately filtering it with words to make you angry/fear/laugh/hate the information. As funny as John Stewart/Steve Colbert is - I had to stop watching them as their comedy is based soley on deliberately editing what our political leaders say out of context to look like fools and idiots. That's NOT a good source of information...

Incidentally, this is being compounded by the aforementioned competition, as those networks are constantly striving for increasing their ratings numbers - thus need to resort to higher shock-values and more pandering/fear mongering.

Third Reason - Survival of the Fittest re-written as part of the American Dream. You asked "what happened to helping fellow people?" In America, it was the combination of the two above that leads to the third reason - our society is designed to out-compete our very next-door neighbors and encourage jealousy, getting them to buy more crap they don't need - and to convince them that their neighbor doesn't care about you and is, in fact, out to get you. Americans are told the ultimate goal in life is to be some high-society big-shot superstar... the leader of the pack... the alpha male! That's how you get the respect, the fame, the money and the ladies! And this involves stepping on others - and EVERYBODY will step on you to get that!

And if you ask people why they do that? They actually will tell you "Because it's in our basic nature as animals".... saying that as if it justifies themselves for their actions and selfish decisions. >_<

I remember one guy I was working with late-night. We were talking about what drives us on in our lives and he said this: "For me, it's my children. I will provide anything for them! I will gladly step on, push aside and stab anybody in the back just to give my children a better life". I couldn't tell you how horrible that sounded to me... he actually uses his love of his children to justify hurting other people for his own greed. What's really sad is that it's backed by the noblest of intentions - providing for your kids. But this guy doesn't believe that society will help his children... he believes they're going to fight against his kids and himself... thus he believes he has to act the same way.

Also, Ayn Rand has gained a cult-following in America, which basically sights that individual greed can improve oneself, one of the more popular books even being entitled "The virtue of selfishness" - and thus supposedly "improve society"... which is complete bunkam. One friend I know who's a big Ayn Rand follower drove past a flipped over car on the highway with a person screaming in it. She said it wasn't her problem, and was worried it could be a trap to get her. She didn't even bother calling the police to let them know of the issue. Another time I remember, this same woman also laughed at the scene in the movie "Captain America" where Steve Rogers jumped on the grenade to protect his fellow soldiers. She said "Why the hell would he do that!?!" My other friend said "To prevent the shrapnel from flying out." She then responded "Why the f*$k would he want to do that? He still gets killed!"

These are just a few of the reasons I could think of off the top of my head. There's probably a lot more reasons, but the basic gist of it is this unsustainable enforcement of competition instead of cooperation.

[Felya]

But that's not why Kobe Bryant went there.

You said a couple of posts ago that is was because of their progress and innovation.

Which is completely false.

The choice isn't US or Germany. They chose Germany over every other country. It is a sign of their success and not even the only one. It only fails if you consider performing the latest procedure not a sign of progress. The fact that they have doctors who can do it, not a sign of innovation. This doesn't just land on their lap, they have the credentials, the ability and the resources to do it and most of all the results.