I hope the rep situation doesn't change...

[Deadite]

And it's different than you guys constantly complaining about dailies?

All of us will continue to argue in an endless loop unless both sides give and just stop.

So..stop..and we will too.

The main argument your side seems to use is 'you don't NEED to do them!!'.

Let me ask you a simple question. When you log into play World of Warcraft do you do things you need to do or things you want to do? I posted this in another thread about it.

'When i log in its to do things i want to do. Need has nothing to do with playing an mmo. You do what you want in them. If you take away things people want in the game then why even play? I want the stuff these rep vendors offer and i have to go through weeks of pointless busy work to get them. One boring path to acquire said items is bad design.

Now i will jump through the hoops to get those bits of shiny but doing so diminishes my enjoyment of the game. I guess its the same for a good few people. As is said that is bad design imho.

[nyc81991]

I think the daily situation wouldn't be so bad if people could buy some ilevel 476 gear with their valor points that doesn't require rep.

Striking a balance in terms of how you can spend valor gear would work better in my opinion.

[Playintrafic]

The point is, I dont like doing quests twice. Dailies are just boring and monotonous

[Deleted]

If people are complaining about the amount of time it takes to do the dailies then why do they take so long (even more so on a PVP server)? If it's optional then why hide gear and recipies behind them? Ignore the fact that dailies =! content, it's just wow chores with a minuscule amount of reward for people in between raids. What if some people don't raid all the time but want to see some sort of character progression? There are plenty of things wrong with the current system when the old ways worked better. But if you are going to sit here and tell us how dailies, now a CORE PART OF THE GAME, is now optional because you said so you have to be more convincing than that.

Wrong.

If people are complaining about the amount of time it takes to do OPTIONAL content, then that is an issue at their end, the the game. The dailies really don't take that long, at all. They don't hide gear behind anything, the gear isn't completely and totally a must, in fact you don't actually need any of it if you aren't raiding all the time. If someone isn't raiding all the time, the likely hood is that they are running normal raids anyway, not heroics. Normal modes can be and have already been cleared in hc dungeon gear and a couple of craftables, nothing is being hidden. As to the recipes being "hidden", that is also wrong. Your game will not end if you don't have a specific recipe, it is optional (there's that word again). So much fail coming from some of you in this thread, it's actually quite funny. And saying the old way worked better, that's just completely stupid. Facerolling your way through a dungeon, (wearing a tabard) that has nothing to do with the faction you are gaining rep for is just welfare rep, pure and simple welfare. There is not one valid point in your argument to back up your point about them being "core", not one thing, if anything you have just further highlighted the fact it is all optional. I don't have to do the rep I have left, I may or may not do it, depends if I want the mounts or other vanity items. That's right chum, I am going to CHOOSE whether or not to do some OPTIONAL dailies in order to gain nothing of particular in game value.

If anyone else wishes to step forward and blurt out more "arguments" that back up the fact that optional content is optional, feel free, i'm just going to sit here and let the bads indirectly back up what the goods say. Wonderful stuff.

[Mawnix]

The main argument your side seems to use is 'you don't NEED to do them!!'.

Let me ask you a simple question. When you log into play World of Warcraft do you do things you need to do or things you want to do? I posted this in another thread about it.

'When i log in its to do things i want to do. Need has nothing to do with playing an mmo. You do what you want in them. If you take away things people want in the game then why even play? I want the stuff these rep vendors offer and i have to go through weeks of pointless busy work to get them. One boring path to acquire said items is bad design.

Now i will jump through the hoops to get those bits of shiny but doing so diminishes my enjoyment of the game. I guess its the same for a good few people. As is said that is bad design imho.

I do things I want to do.

Which is enjoy the game.

So I do dailies whenever I want, heroics whenever I want, LFR whenever I want, Scenarios whenever I want, PVP whenever I want, explore whenever I want..etc.

You wanna know WHY we say you don't need to do them?

Because it's put as an optional side task for people who DON'T raid.

But that's the keyword.

Optional

When people see content before them, for some reason we have this psychology that we HAVE to consume it and do it.

That's what's making this entire thing so absurd.

That's what makes me commenting on your post worthless because you won't change your opinion nor argument.

=/

[Cernunnos]

If I could work on any of the reps I wanted when I wanted, it might not be so bad.

Shado pan has a kick ass black cloud serpent rom being exalted (it's a quest reward), but to even start those dailies I need to first grind out golden lotus to revered. Why?

[Deleted]

I have no problem with going out into the world but, for me, up to this point, it's a case of feeling forced to rather than wanting to.

My two biggest motivators to play WoW are storyline and group-play; storyline finishes after you complete all the quests (or once you grind all the dailies *vomits*) and there is no group play left "out in the world" (except for the near-mythical dailies that require a group, yay dailies). In contrast I've happily leveled tanks and healers solely through the dungeon finder with short trips to Hellfire, Tundra and Hyjal to get some gear. I have no reason to ever go out into a zone once I've finished the story; it's a waste of my time. The only reason Blizzard provides are "carrot on a stick" style rewards for repetitive content I'd much rather not do, so I don't do it.

I'm not saying that Blizzard cannot find ways to make the world interesting after reaching max level but, for me, they haven't succeeded yet.

Additionally, I'm one of those crazy people who enjoyed it back in TBC when you made a group and flew out to the dungeon instead of queuing.

What if this new way of obtaining rep out in the world required a group and was informative in terms of lore? I really enjoyed the small scenes created when handing in those lorewalker quests, similar things to those could be created revealing information about the faction you are gaining reputation with.

Just as an example, faction challenges:
Every day a faction will have a challenge set out for you which will require you to get a group together of say, 3-5 people, and defeat some boss-like NPC that would be a lot more difficult than your average heroic dungeon boss. Accepting and or completing this challenge would restrict you from doing the regular dailies, and give just as much reputation as those available to you together, to not make people feel required to do both. This "boss" would not require tanking or healing, but have a set tactic that you must follow in order to survive, perhaps you attack him by using a set of quest items you obtain together with the challenge correctly to not rule out tanks and healers completely either.

It would in a sense be a daily quest I suppose, but then again daily quests as a whole can be extremely broad and include pretty much everything.

[Grym]

What if some people don't raid all the time but want to see some sort of character progression? There are plenty of things wrong with the current system when the old ways worked better. But if you are going to sit here and tell us how dailies, now a CORE PART OF THE GAME, is now optional because you said so you have to be more convincing than that.

For people that don't raid, how else should their character progress? Run dungeons? Sure, but you HAD your progress there from 450 to 463, from 463 onwards you would need other ways to progress, oh yeah, how about dailies?

Progression doesn't come to you on a silver platter just because you don't raid, if you want progression of any sort, you need to put in some effort.

I have stopped doing dailies since like second week, I am not exalted with any of the fractions (except Tillers), and I have no need for them, MV already drop same item level gear on normal, and HoF and ToES LFR already drop same ilvl gear, normal mode drops 496 and if you doe Elite you even get 506.

Mounts? You don't need, you WANT, if you want it enough you would grind it, if not then don't get it, don't cry that you need it but doesn't want to work for it. Patterns? Again, you don't NEED it, if you need something made, plenty of people out there got the pattern, oh that's right, you want it to make some money for your character or make something yourself? That is not a NEED, that is a WANT.

[Fenixdown]

I will say this. The dailies are necessary for anyone that wants to put the most into their character. However, that said, they're optional past revered unless you still want to stockpile Lesser Charms of Good Fortune.

Let me give you my Valor cap rundown for this week, which ended on Thursday.

- 45 dailies (Golden Lotus 3 days) took combined 3 hours
- LFR x 4 took combined 4 hours
- LFD x 2 took combined 1 hour
- Normal mode kill x 9 took combined 9 hours

So, I capped Valor in a combined total of 17 hours of playtime. By Thursday. In that time I also went and saw a movie, worked one day for six hours, and obviously slept.

SO, even spreading that out over the course of a whole week...you can cap Valor in approximately 20 hours of playtime each week. A week has a total of 168 hours in it. That's a lowly 12% of an entire weekly timeframe.

You "hate" dailies, but you level alts? It's just questing, but repeatable. That's it. Also, most people complaining are doing it out of their own necessity to do them all at once. Space it out. You don't need to rush through the reps like a madman, they'll be there tomorrow. And next week. And the week after that. There's no FoS for "server first exalted with everything", slow down. I started with Klaxxi, Golden Lotus, and Tillers. After I got those to the reps that I wanted them at, I moved on to something else. After I got the next ones that I was doing (Shado Pan, August Celestials, and Cloud Serpent) to the reps I wanted them to be at, I moved on to something else. Right now all I'm doing is Golden Lotus dailies, which is still per week on just three days of daily quests all the coins that I need for one Greater Charms turn-in next week (of which I'm well over two stacks of Lesser Charms, anyway). I'm taking a break since I'm Valor capped. You don't need to even do them past that.

I mean, let's see what we have now besides dailies to get you Valor that doesn't even include normal/heroic raiding.

- LFR x 4 is 360 Valor
- LFD x 7 (at once per day) is 560

Just on those two things alone, you're at 920 Valor! So, now you can do either a. four normal mode bosses (100 Valor), b. two scenarios (80 Valor) or c. do a whopping 16 dailies. In a week.

As far as the reputations go, they really don't take that long to get to revered. A few weeks tops. You don't need them that high up right away, anyhow...you can only get 1000 Valor per week. You can only buy one Valor item, at best, once every two weeks.

I'm sorry, but I kind of agree with the OP. Everyone needs to stop griping about something that isn't really a problem.

[dejaa]

It still does not change the fact that gaining rep from dungeons at an equal pace to dailies makes the dungeons too rewarding, to the point that a player would be stupid to do dailies at all even if they hated dungeons. The rate of valor acquisition is higher, you get more gold, and you get gear and/or enchanting mats. Further, all this is done in about 20-30 minutes not counting queue times, making them faster than the daily quests as well. If you want to add rep gains into the dungeons at an equal level to what the dailies are now on top of all that, then we go right back to Wrath/Cata where all everyone ever did was grind dungeons and maybe raid because that was by far the most efficient way to play.

There has to be a tradeoff to maintain the balance, even if the tabard system was only for alts. The best suggestion I have heard on this front is make it so that you can choose to either gain rep or valor as a reward for the random dungeons, up to a weekly cap.

Maybe the real issue is the dailies are too unrewarding.

[nyc81991]

I do things I want to do.

Which is enjoy the game.

So I do dailies whenever I want, heroics whenever I want, LFR whenever I want, Scenarios whenever I want, PVP whenever I want, explore whenever I want..etc.

You wanna know WHY we say you don't need to do them?

Because it's put as an optional side task for people who DON'T raid.

But that's the keyword.

Optional

When people see content before them, for some reason we have this psychology that we HAVE to consume it and do it.

That's what's making this entire thing so absurd.

That's what makes me commenting on your post worthless because you won't change your opinion nor argument.

=/

If you want to spend your valor points on gear you Need to do dailys.

Wether you "need" that gear to do other things is irrelevant.

[draykorinee]

How is this any sort of relevant meter of how much content there is in a game, or how much of a grind anything is?

If current content is too time consuming for you to run alts with, here's a thought. Pick your favorite class, and ignore the rest for the time being.

The summary of the dailies issue: Stuff to do that some folks like > nothing to do.

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 10:41 AM ----------



That's a 'most players are self absorbed assholes' problem, not a Blizzard problem.

And yet mob tagging and quest items aren't an issue in guild wars 2. Really dumb thing to say its the players attitude when it comes to mob tagging and quest design.

[Fenixdown]

If you want to spend your valor points on gear you Need to do dailys.

Wether you "need" that gear to do other things is irrelevant.

Actually, it's the exact opposite. What you're saying is irrelevant. If you don't want to do dailies to gain rep, and you don't need Valor gear to progress through raiding, then you don't need to do dailies to unlock Valor rewards because...guess what...you don't need to spend your points.

If it's not necessary, it's optional. If it's optional and you don't want to do it....hey, here's an idea. Don't? Leveling alts is optional. I don't want to do it because I can't fly until level 90 and the first time through was barely tolerable on the ground. Do you see me crying to Blizzard? No. I just don't level any alts. Why? Because it's optional.

I'm convinced that people that play this game don't actually know the definition of the words "optional" and "mandatory".

[Ohleemar]

Correct. The valor gear becomes useless within a few days of being level 90, it is too low ilvl to be classed as "needed". They are just something you pick up along the way if you do the dailies to get mounts etc.

Valor gear is 489. World BOEs and LFR are 376. Just clarifying that in no way is the valor ILVL too low to be "classified" as needed. Valor gear is the single best gear pre-normal raids, which many players don't have the time for.

[Cernunnos]

Valor gear is 489
heroic 5 man epics are 476
World BOEs are 476
Crafted BOEs are 476 (DMF cards)
Mogu'shan Vaults LFR is 476
Heart of fear LFR is 483
Mogu'shan Vaults 10/25 is 489

Valor gear is the same level as the first "tier" of raiding. HOF and Terrace are 496 item level

[Veliladon]

Did you know if you search for "blizzard white knights" you'll get a MLP wiki link.

I'm sure it's... a vast conspiracy entirely coincidental.

[Pusekatten]

OP please tell me how Im suppost to get 489 gear without doing the dailys? Sha havn't drop a single item for me so far. Normal raids are reserved in case my guild needs me as a backup dps. So I might get to kill 1-2bosses each week tops, with the lowest looting priorities. Other gets the item for offspec before my main spec.

[Mawnix]

OP please tell me how Im suppost to get 489 gear without doing the dailys? Sha havn't drop a single item for me so far. Normal raids are reserved in case my guild needs me as a backup dps. So I might get to kill 1-2bosses each week tops, with the lowest looting priorities. Other gets the item for offspec before my main spec.

...Raid.

LFR.

Epics drop from Heroics from time to time.

Buy them off the AH.

Get BOEs off of mobs per usual.

Craft gear.

...Shall I say more.

[Mammoon]

Currently, there are two schools of thought on the forums:

1) People who raid and are good (have downed some heroic bosses)
2) People who either don't raid or they raid "casually" (term that means they haven't downed some heroic bosses)

If you fall into category #1, dailies are mandatory for you, since in order to keep raiding at a high level, you need to min/max as much as possible to keep your raid spot (if this isn't true, then you fall into group 2), therefore you need any VP gear you can get, and more importantly you NEED TOKENS. This will not change, as you will need tokens the entire expansion, and therefore you will be doing dailies for the rest of the expansion (maybe not every day, but most days).

If you fall into category #2, then yes, dailies are optional for you. Stop arguing with people who actually do raid about how optional dailies are... just because they are optional for you, doesn't mean they are optional for everyone else.

Doing dailies for reputation isn't even the real problem. There are things dailies offer that you can get no where else in the game, and some of those needs you need in order to min/max your character. Thus, dailies are mandatory if you want to be good.

Now, I am sure some retired WoW player who no longer plays but still checks MMO-Champ every day will come argue with me. Can you be in full blues in this game and still be a good player? Yes. Can you be in full blues in this game and still be in a good raiding guild? No. If you are currently in full blues and in a guild who has downed heroic modes, that either means you are getting carried by the guild for X, Y, or Z reasons (you are dating the GM, etc) or they aren't actually a good guild, it is just the content is too easy (they aren't good enough to find someone to replace you with cause the good guilds on the server have all the good players, etc).

[Azurenys]

Ask yourself, why should rep be just handed to you, without ANY effort being put in? Would you get a promotion at work without earning your way? Does your employer just put money into your account every month without you ever going into work/doing any work(except you benefit slackers)?

WoW isn't a job. It's a game. It should feel like one. There shouldn't be anything mandatory <- IT IS mandatory to do dailies, otherwise you feel like you've missed out on a lot of bonus ways of gearing, your gear progression is slower than everyone else, you feel bad for not playing enough. That's a NO NO for a video game, let alone an MMO centered about progressing your character.

WoW isn't a job - you don't get paid each month so don't compare Blizz to an employer.. we don't get money for doing dailies, we PAY money to be able to play a game, not do dailies. Just because you have no issues with grinding your day off doesn't mean everyone else should agree with you or keep quiet. Stop being so self-centered.