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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by freeforumuser View Post
    I find your defense of Anet funny because people are willing to pay $15/mth for a superior bug-free experience, especially if they like grinding for vertical progression.

    Me? I don't even play WoW, but just because it did some things right doesn't justify GW2 to keep failing at it.
    I wouldnt call any of the subscription MMO's either superior or bug-free. Different =\= superior, different strokes for different folks and all that. Some will find one approach superior but not everybody will. As to bug free... you've played other MMO's right? There is no such thing as a bug-free MMO no mater how much your willing to fork over. They are just too big and have too many interconected systems to ever be bug free. The critical factor is how responsive the dev's are in fixing the problems. Put on the way back glasses and take off the rose colored nostalgia filter and you'd realize that even WoW was buggy as hell right after launch and still has nasty bugs crop up to this day. The difference is they have 7 (or is it 8 now) years to stomp most of the bugs out of the core of the game and now most of their bugs have to do with new changes. GW2 is so new it still has core bugs to be ironed out on top of new things added each patch.

    Who is John Galt?

  2. #42
    I'm inclined to believe that WoW and it's clones has given us a bias, and maybe we just don't know how to handle this game/experience yet. The guy who said you should combine PvE and PvP is right, and guilds really help you stay, the last karka event this weekend was so much fun because of the awesome people I did it with.

    We need to try to play different. Not see ascended items and handle the Fractals of the Mists as if it's a WoW tier. People are talking about needing the gear, but I'm always using my half finished Magic Find gear, and I still do well, even when I sacrifice a bunch of stats for the magic find. The only important thing about that gear is Agony resistance, which you won't see unless you get really deep into the Fractals. And then you pretty much already kind of lives there, so what's to hate?

    WvWvW with a dedicated guild is a lot of fun, too, and a PvP match once in a while is great too. This coming from me who pretty much never did PvP in WoW.
    And doing stuff that passively helps me earn my legendary is great too, running around the world, going where I please, slowly getting materials for my Gift of Wood and other stuff, with a chance to get my precursor to really get things kicking.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    "Zones" by themselves aren't content. There has to be things in them, so that's not really a fair bullet point. (Why are the zones all using a 1999 EverQuest model of square zones with single exit/entry points and loading screens, anyway?)
    I don't know what the technical reasons for the zones loading but it's not really an issue in my book. I almost never run between zones. I almost always use waypoints. On the zones side, of course it's a fair point. There are hearts, DE, etc in those zones. Of course there are a lot of similar types of events (collect, protect, kill, escort, repair, heal) but that applies to MMO's. GW2 actually does quite well by often including different ways to succeed and has added some nice twists. I think the zones also do provide some nice variety. I especially like the way that the straits work, where there is an string of events as you progress through the zone. I am not a fan of the water fights despite being quite strong there but that's personal preference. The point on the zones is just that. There is a lot going on and you can't say it's not content just because you don't enjoy them. I have yet to find a zone that I don't enjoy. Scratch that, I didn't enjoy the Silvari starting zone much but then again, I didn't play it for very long.

    Jumping puzzles are cool, I'll agree. I wouldn't pay to do them, though, and they quickly get pretty repetitive. Few of them have very much "meat on the bones" so to speak.
    Raids are cool but they quickly get repetitive, dungeons are cool but they quickly get repetitive, etc. Different strokes.

    Ehhhh, honestly? It's 2012. We're really past the point where talking about how many different races you have in your game is all that impressive anymore.
    Why do people play alts if they are not different? They provide a different look at the content. Different skills, play styles, etc. If it's nothing spectacular then why did Blizzard include a new race and class? I am not say that it's a differentiator between GW2 and other MMO's but it does count, in a way, as content.

    Again, I'll give this one to you, but I will say that they're not really variable at all, and (generally) really aren't personal. You're basically watching a very uninspired, standard fantasy-model story called "The Saga of Trahearne".
    I remember a while back you complained about the Zaitan battle. It was a day or so later when one of my guild members was commenting on how epic the Zaitan fight was. I am not a Trahearne fan but the story is there and appeals to a lot of people. It's one of the highlights for my daughter.

    Crafting professions are awful. I'm serious, they come off as nothing more than a leveling gimmick. You can 1-400 any profession in very short order without much effort and have a full set of exotic recpies right from the vendor, and yet feel as though you have absolutely nothing meaningful. I mean, you're right...they're there...but they're indicative of the lack of polish, effort and QA that absolutely pervades the entire game.
    On one hand, I agree with you, GW2 does lack polish in a lot of areas. On the other hand, I like what they did with discoveries and crafting. Yes, it's easy to craft a set of exotics. That was the point and even a slight change to that with the Ascended armor has caused an uproar. I personally prefer the GW2 mechanic to grinding dailies for rep to buy recipes. I would put some sort of limiter to make exotics take a bit longer to craft (CD of some sort, e.g. you get 7 x's per week and need to use a few for every exotic you craft) but that's my opinion. Others disagree.

    Only seen one so far, and parts of it were good. A lot of it was just more mindless collecting that's - once again - indicative of the overall design of the game. Clock Tower was good times though, glad I did that.

    All in all there's a lot of "busywork" sort of stuff in the game, but nothing that I'd sit down and be excited to do. In the time I played it just felt like this completely unremarkable blur of destroying pack after pack of completely unthreatening mobs that seemed to be everywhere, simply by bashing my face on my keyboard. My performance never seemed to matter, getting "good" at my class never seemed to matter, working on strategies with other people never seemed to matter, how I approached fights never seemed to matter, I was never excited or challenged by an encounter...again, just this unmemorable blur of mowing down pack after pack of helpless critters, over and over.
    That would be your impression. It doesn't take anything away from the fact that it is content. Maybe not your kind of content, but it's content. Have you tried to do Shatterer with 10 people. It's a really interesting fight. You can't just zerg your way through it. The helping factor that's part of GW starts to become a problem in situations where you have 50+ people. It's close to impossible to design a fight that can scale from 10 to 50 random people. If you want a nice challenge, try the temple of Balthazar fight in the Straits of Devastation. It's challenging enough that I have only seen the Karma vendor twice. Try fractions, I have heard good things about those too.

    My point remains. You complain that there is no content but there is plenty. It's not your cup of tea, fine, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I am not saying it's perfect, far from it. Some events in Orr are impossible with just 1 person and that shouldn't be the case. I should be able to (with difficulty) succeed in an event. Impossible with 1 person and trivial with 5 is crazy. I also don't like the way they push the cash shop. It could be far more subtle. I have about 1100 gems but that's bought through gold, not cash. I do like the Gold->Gems and Gems->Gold option, I just think they should include better value for money in the gems area. A/Net will improve these and other things over time and they will add more to the game.

  4. #44
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    It's been said multiple times that Ascended gear will be available somehow through WvW, right now all there is is rings and a back piece so settle down. Also, if you think that your individual gear actually matters in WvW you're just not paying attention.
    Not everyone is a scrub Pver that runs around following the zerg, so yes it does matter and it will matter even more when they add it to more slots, furthermore it matters, becasue it is not the game they sold to us in interviews, Q&A sessions, their manifesto, etc, if I wanted a gear grind / gear stat progression I would play another game becasue they do it far better and they do PvE (the dungeons/raids aspect) far better.

    Hence why I and many others have quit / got refunds / are off to games like PS2, I didn't buy GW2 to play another (in Mike O'Briens words) "WoW 2.0" clone, from a company who are happy to do a total u-turn on their alleged principles a mere 3 months into the game.
    Last edited by mmoc1f2ad58cb4; 2012-11-19 at 11:40 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Yah, like I said earlier, there's a lot of content that I'm sure a lot of people like. People fall all over that spectrum of content, and that's fine. Me, I'm not a fan of it...I wanted to be, I really did, but it just didn't work out. I suppose if something isn't your cup of tea to begin with, you'll be more liable to dismiss it as not being great content, so I suppose I'm guilty of that in some ways.

    Also, all in all, good answers there. I suppose in the end what matters is how you feel about the game, even if you can't put it into words or describe it.
    There's games for everyone, but there isn't a game for everyone.

  6. #46
    Tuesday, half past tea time.


    But seriously, I'm fairly certain its fully expected that population will raise when there's new things to do and slowly decline when there is not, in any game ever.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by zurgs View Post
    Not everyone is a scrub Pver that runs around following the zerg
    so in other words you think it's going to hurt the people who think WvW is about deathmatching small groups of players and doing nothing to complete objectives. Got it. Probably a good thing that you quit.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Except the difference between Ascended gear and Exotics is so miniscule it really doesn't matter. You lose the ability to put runes in it and for the most part the infusions are tiny stats boosts bundled with Agony Resistance. Ascended gear has one purpose, Fractals, and that's it.
    "Except the difference between Heroic gear and Regular gear is so miniscule, it really doesn't matter [...] Heroic Gear has one purpose, Heroic Raiding, and that's it."

    It's a bullshit argument when it's in WarCraft's court, but that's completely viable here? I'm sorry, but no, that response can go to hell.


    It's still misleading. There is no "Mass Exodus" just the same handful of people threatening to leave because they're unhappy. Sure I bet people quit over it but there's been no Mass Exodus at all that I've noticed. I still login to an Overflow in Lion's Arch since launch. People tend to overstate their case...
    Notice the question-mark in "Mass Exodus?". You see it up there? Yeah, I do too.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post


    But seriously, I'm fairly certain its fully expected that population will raise when there's new things to do and slowly decline when there is not, in any game ever.
    This pretty much. If they continue their monthly schedule, it'll be fine.

  10. #50
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    so in other words you think it's going to hurt the people who think WvW is about deathmatching small groups of players and doing nothing to complete objectives. Got it. Probably a good thing that you quit.
    Not at all, we let the scrub Pvers run around with the zerg, whilst organised small groups go and do what needs to be done such as keeping supply cut off, scouting, escorting dollys when we've just captured a keep/garrison to get the upgrades going, etc, which means we do a lot of small group fighting and are often outnumbered, so yes stats do make a difference.

    I see you also conveniently ignored the other half of my reason, as in I was sold a game under false pretences, which speaks volumes.
    Last edited by mmoc1f2ad58cb4; 2012-11-20 at 01:52 AM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    "Except the difference between Heroic gear and Regular gear is so miniscule, it really doesn't matter [...] Heroic Gear has one purpose, Heroic Raiding, and that's it."

    It's a bullshit argument when it's in WarCraft's court, but that's completely viable here? I'm sorry, but no, that response can go to hell.
    Except in terms of WoW iLvL there is a much larger gap, 10-12% on average. It's also much more feasible to obtain a full set of Heroic gear in a very short amount of time, as opposed to Ascended gear. You're comparing apples to oranges...

    That's also not what viable means.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 06:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zurgs View Post
    Not at all, we let the scrub Pvers run around with the zerg, whilst organised small groups go and do what needs to be done such as keeping supply cut off, scouting, escorting dollys when we've just captured a keep/garrison to get the upgrades going, etc, which means we do a lot of small group fighting and are often outnumbered, so yes stats do make a difference.

    I see you also conveniently ignored the other half of my reason, as in the game I was sold under false pretences, which speaks volumes.
    No I ignored the rest of it in my response because it's more uneducated derp and didn't warrant a response. If you're outnumbered, small increments in stats on gear isn't going to turn the tide.
    Last edited by Tradewind; 2012-11-20 at 01:52 AM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Changed the thread's title to give a little more... idea as to what people may/may not be walking into. And I'd [like] to keep this thread going for a bit, without open hostility, so as a reminder
    [watch your tone and let's keep this peaceful, thanks -- <3 Kel]
    You need to check yourself and just step off the e-thug thing you're trying to put up. Let the people talk, let the forums actually be forums, the moderators in mmochampion are the biggest scum on the internet. fuck yourselves.


    If you have issues with moderation, PM me or Boubouille. Do not try to derail the thread. --Sunshine
    Last edited by Sunshine; 2012-11-20 at 02:10 AM.

  13. #53
    some nice e rage right there

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Except in terms of WoW iLvL there is a much larger gap, 10-12% on average. It's also much more feasible to obtain a full set of Heroic gear in a very short amount of time, as opposed to Ascended gear. You're comparing apples to oranges...
    Forgive me, oh wise one, for using the word Viable instead of "Valid". But you know what? Point still stands. The difference between the shown Exotic Gear with a Gem and the shown Ascended Gear, per ring, is 5 Power, 5 Precision, 3% Magic Find (This is not even counting the possible bonus stats given to you by the Infusion Slot).

    Go back to tier 10 heroic gear in Icecrown Citadel. How much of an upgrade was it? 10 Haste rating, 10-14 spell power depending on the slot. A couple pieces doesn't look like a big deal. Put that over the course of your entire gearset, and there is a sizable difference, which is why it's done.

    It's not Apples to Oranges, it's the Golden Apples to the Red Apples. And you're blindfolded, telling me one's a pear because it tastes slightly different.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2012-11-20 at 02:23 AM.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Forgive me, oh wise one, for using the word Viable instead of "Valid". But you know what? Point still stands. The difference between the shown Exotic Gear with a Gem and the shown Ascended Gear, per ring, is 5 Power, 5 Precision, 3% Magic Find.

    Go back to tier 10 heroic gear in Icecrown Citadel. How much of an upgrade was it? 10 Haste rating, 10-14 spell power depending on the slot. A couple pieces doesn't look like a big deal. Put that over the course of your entire gearset, and there is a sizable difference, which is why it's done.

    It's not Apples to Oranges, it's the Golden Apples to the Red Apples. And you're blindfolded, telling me one's a pear because it tastes slightly different.
    Be patronizing if you want, but you still don't get it. It was still an upgrade of 12%+ or more from just ilvl 264 to 277, up to 14% on some items in terms of primary stats. That makes a difference in a game like WoW where everything is tuned around having certain stat plateaus satisfied...having the dps/healing throughput/tank HP etc to complete it. Which, thus far, doesn't factor into GW2 at all, that is until you start handling Agony.

    You're right in that a larger amount of it adds up, but you're not going to be getting a large amount of Ascended gear for a very, very, long time. Even right now you're limited to a back that you can craft to get beyond level 10 before you even begin to see ring drops. At this point we don't know how long it is even until armor starts appearing and what it will take to get it. Also if it has rune slots or not. But the fact remains they exist for infusion slots, to add Agony Resistance, which has only one purpose, progressing through Fractals. If the armor does in fact not have rune slots, then all of this whining is for nothing because Exotics will still be better overall for everything outside of Fractals.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by zurgs View Post
    Because Arenanet spent years selling the game in everything from their manifesto to interviews / Q&A sessions, that "progression" would be horizontal (titles, cosmetic gear, achievemetns, etc), that there would not be a gear treadmill, in the space of 3 months they have done a total u-turn, so people feel they have been lied to / falsely advertised to, etc and are rightly annoyed.
    Would you please provide a link and reference to where ArenaNet stated the progression would be horizontal? In looking back to the GW2 manifesto trailer, I don't see that. Colin Johanson stated that ArenaNet doesn't want the player to grind, is that what you're referring to?

  17. #57
    The stat upgrade being 12% instead of 7-8% (what Guru's threads were making them out to be) makes that big of a difference? In a game that was sold on the premise it was never going to have gear escalation?

    You should also take note, however, that they're slowly nerfing and not buffing each rune-set. Speculation on my part, of course, but it seems like they're trying to bring them in line so people don't notice "too big a loss" when going with the higher statted gear. Making the rune choice inconsequential. Considering quite a few builds are already running Divinity Runes as soon as you can afford them, or gems if you can't, it kind of is pushing the idea that "This gear will be better, period". Speculation, natch, but it's there nonetheless.


    The amount of time it takes to get a set, or the amount of time before it even becomes available is completely irrelevant. Its presence alone is enough to warrant an objection to what is essentially power-creep.


    And I was saving the Agony/Infusion factor for later, because it feels really good to be back in 2006 with resistance mechanics aga-- wait.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 07:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Prepared View Post
    Would you please provide a link and reference to where ArenaNet stated the progression would be horizontal? In looking back to the GW2 manifesto trailer, I don't see that. Colin Johanson stated that ArenaNet doesn't want the player to grind, is that what you're referring to?
    First one I thought of was this, with the emphasis being mine.
    Fun impacts loot collection: The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.
    http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-...cess#more-8572
    Back in June.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2012-11-20 at 02:48 AM.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    No I ignored the rest of it in my response because it's more uneducated derp and didn't warrant a response.
    Translated - you don't have an answer for it, because you are either ignorant on the matter or simply want to stand there with your fingers in your ears stamping your feet.

    Anyway, time for some education, this is what Colin Johanson (he is the lead dev for the content team) stated on the Arenanet blog before release:

    "We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too."

    source - http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-...asures-success

    This and similar messages were repeated in many interviews, videos, Q&A sessions & in their manifesto pre-release, by multiple high ranking Anet personel (including co-founders/game director), I am sure you can find the thread in the GW2 general discussion forum for more, they sold a game on one premise and 3 months in have done a u-turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    If you're outnumbered, small increments in stats on gear isn't going to turn the tide.
    Sure it does I've won & lost encounters by sometimes tiny margins (under 100 HP even), the difference is only going to get worse as they add higher levels of infusions and ascended items to more slots, that was not the game sold to me by the frankly dishonest Arenanet / NCSoft.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-20 at 02:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Prepared View Post
    Would you please provide a link and reference to where ArenaNet stated the progression would be horizontal? In looking back to the GW2 manifesto trailer, I don't see that. Colin Johanson stated that ArenaNet doesn't want the player to grind, is that what you're referring to?
    See my reply to Tradewind above this, further to that go to the GW2 general discussion forum and read through the relevant thread, people have posted links to other examples, you can't miss it, it has about 10,000 replies.

    P.S - I'm not sure whether Anet use the term horizontal, but that is what everyone else calls it, the point being before they released the game, they stated numerous times there was not going to be a mandatory gear grind (because exotics would have the same stats as legendaries), that the "grind" was on optional things like wanting a certain cosmetic, gaining titles, achievements, etc.
    Last edited by mmoc1f2ad58cb4; 2012-11-20 at 03:35 AM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by zurgs View Post
    Translated - you don't have an answer for it, because you either ignorant on the matter or simply want to stand there with your fingers in your ears stamping your feet.

    Anyway, time for some education, this is what Colin Johanson (he is the lead dev for the content team) stated on the Arenanet blog before release:

    "We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too."

    source - http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-...asures-success

    This and similar messages were repeated in many interviews, videos, Q&A sessions & in their manifesto pre-release, by multiple high ranking Anet personel (including co-founders/game director), I am sure you can find the thread in the GW2 general discussion forum for more, they sold a game on one premise and 3 months in have done a u-turn.



    Sure it does I've won & lost encounters by sometimes tiny margins (under 100 HP even), the difference is only going to get worse as they add higher levels of infusions and ascended items to more slots, that was not the game sold to me by the frankly dishonest Arenanet / NCSoft.
    Grats you can't even read the shit you quote. Specifically where it says, optional....where people who want to chase prestigious gear can do so, but are under no obligation to.

    Whatever, running explorables right now so I don't have time to argue with people who quit the game but still whine about it.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Wow, did you even read it?
    Yes? Next question.

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