1. #3561
    Not just sloppy play, he can outright engage your team by himself and run in first to kill people just to morph strength and ult away. Other carries have to wait for a hero like Tide to go in, morph can just wave form and eth/adaptive a support to death and then auto attack another support to death while morphing strength and then ult back to base like nothing happened.

  2. #3562
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    Sven's being picked constantly in pro games now. I guess pros finally figured out how strong skillbolt is for setting up combos, and Sven himself isn't as big of a drawback anymore since his ulti and cleave got buffed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  3. #3563
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Sven's being picked constantly in pro games now. I guess pros finally figured out how strong skillbolt is for setting up combos, and Sven himself isn't as big of a drawback anymore since his ulti and cleave got buffed.
    He is definitely good, but its not like he is unbeatable. I liked most the game (mtw against someone?) with Sven/Magnus combo, those cleaves jesus... but there just as many games where he was build as support or just didnt make big enough impact even with hugeass farm. The "easiest" counter seemed to me like bkb on bane and ulti sven during his bkb.

    Last couple of days, i was trying Nyx and I havent had so much fun in dota... like ever. The ganking solo kills are definitely part of that, but well timed carapace is just hillarious since alot of people dont unfortunately stop animations on their spells. Carapace on Huskars Life break or on Linas ulti... hillarious. But i honestly have no clue how to build him, i just go arcane boots/dagon5 and at that point game is usually already over and if not, ill just get some neutral items like drums or linkens, but might try veil of discord depending on setup. Definitely fun hero, even in games I loose

  4. #3564
    NA > if support dagon -> guinsoos
    else diffusal -> manta -> guinsoos anyway

  5. #3565
    Two more invites yet again. Anyone is interested in playing long term other than just being curious about the game?

  6. #3566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    He is definitely good, but its not like he is unbeatable. I liked most the game (mtw against someone?) with Sven/Magnus combo, those cleaves jesus... but there just as many games where he was build as support or just didnt make big enough impact even with hugeass farm. The "easiest" counter seemed to me like bkb on bane and ulti sven during his bkb.
    I'm not really sure which way Sven's more useful as. He's always capable of hitting hard due to his ulti, but if you build him as a carry he turns into a more consistent Pirate, but because he still provides skillbolt and a fantastic buff, he's pretty useful as a support, too...

    I've been surprised pros haven't been getting Soul Ring on him. It's so good on him, lets him spam the crap out of his skillbolt and pretty much completely eliminates any mana problems he might've had.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  7. #3567
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I'm not really sure which way Sven's more useful as. He's always capable of hitting hard due to his ulti, but if you build him as a carry he turns into a more consistent Pirate, but because he still provides skillbolt and a fantastic buff, he's pretty useful as a support, too...

    I've been surprised pros haven't been getting Soul Ring on him. It's so good on him, lets him spam the crap out of his skillbolt and pretty much completely eliminates any mana problems he might've had.
    One of the more interesting things is Sven's tower-killing capability: it seems like only DP and....bugger, Ward-Ult guy (makes, 8 of them) have greater pushing potential at level 6.

  8. #3568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimoron View Post
    One of the more interesting things is Sven's tower-killing capability: it seems like only DP and....bugger, Ward-Ult guy (makes, 8 of them) have greater pushing potential at level 6.
    You're thinking of Rhasta/Shadow Shaman

    I'd say Leshrac probably has the best tower-pushing power at any level. Diabolic Edict causes enormous damage in a short amount of time if you can keep it from wasting hits on creeps.

    Sven's ability to kill towers isn't very good without carry items... his attack speed is pretty slow since he's a STR hero and towers have a lot of armor. Once he has a few carry items, then yeah, he tears up towers (and everything else.)
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  9. #3569
    sven is horrible support pick him as carry or just dont
    Last edited by Finear; 2012-11-21 at 10:57 AM.

  10. #3570
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    You're thinking of Rhasta/Shadow Shaman

    I'd say Leshrac probably has the best tower-pushing power at any level. Diabolic Edict causes enormous damage in a short amount of time if you can keep it from wasting hits on creeps.
    Lesh is far from as good as Clinkz. Even a naked Clinkz is gonna do more damage faster than Lesh will besides maybe really early into the game when Clinkz doesn't have both fire arrows and strafe.

  11. #3571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    sven as support is horrible pick him as carry or just dont
    Great reinforcement for your position there.

    Support Sven is still extremely useful - brings probably the best skillbolt format stun in the game (at least tied with CK's Chaos Bolt, anyway) and his buff is seriously underappreciated. It gives 16 bonus armor to heroes AND creeps, PLUS a huge move speed boost (12%!) with a little under 50% uptime when it's maxed. That translates into almost doubling your creeps' HP versus enemy creeps and towers and it's a straight up counter to TA's armor pierce, Slardar's ultimate, Medallion of Courage, and Desolator.

    For the earlier phases of the midgame, his right click damage is still very relevant even without damage items due to his ulti and decent STR, and his high AGI gain (for a STR hero) makes him a little less reliant on IAS and armor than other STR heroes.

    I'd counter by saying that Sven is a terrible pick as a pure carry. There are much better choices for a hero that wants to right-click things to death. Sven has more of an "AOE carry" niche, a lot like Pirate. If I just wanted a hero that could show up and right-click heroes to death in a few hits, one by one, there are a lot of better choices - hell, if you roll a 20 instead of a 10, PA's probably the best hero in the game at doing that and she's damned near impossible to peel off her target once she has her BKB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    Lesh is far from as good as Clinkz. Even a naked Clinkz is gonna do more damage faster than Lesh will besides maybe really early into the game when Clinkz doesn't have both fire arrows and strafe.
    He's talking about ~level 6. Clinkz is by far the best tower killer once he has some items (Clinkz with just orchid and MKB is fucking comical), but for pushing/taking towers before the 20-25 minute mark, I don't think it gets better than Leshrac. Edict just does so much damage if you can give him a few seconds of free time to use it on a tower.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  12. #3572
    and how you gonna lvlup warcry, stun and stats to actually use this spells ?
    soul ring is not enough (mana for 1 bolt on 30s cd) and you need to buy wards/supportstuff anyway
    on paper he looks great as you said
    in practice all he can do is stun once for 100-175dmg maybe use lowlvl warcry (MS is still nice tho) and thats all

    sven sucks as 5
    as 4 mayybe if your team is already wining
    Last edited by Finear; 2012-11-21 at 11:28 AM.

  13. #3573
    buriza/manta/treads/bfly/MKB/desolator(yes, desolator) fletcher #1 DPS in an 8 second window. Kill tier 3 towers with backdoor protection up in 5 seconds.

    Edict most likely has anyone beat early to mid game unless someone gets really fed. Still, that requires there to be nothing defending the tower, where a hero like Clinkz with his ult up can still unload a lot of damage even in the middle of an enemy team.

    Honestly, Krobe is garbage until 11. Her ultimate doesn't have enough spirits to be worth anything until then.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2012-11-21 at 11:36 AM.

  14. #3574
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    He's talking about ~level 6. Clinkz is by far the best tower killer once he has some items (Clinkz with just orchid and MKB is fucking comical), but for pushing/taking towers before the 20-25 minute mark, I don't think it gets better than Leshrac. Edict just does so much damage if you can give him a few seconds of free time to use it on a tower.
    Lesh does about 1600 damage at max rank Edict.

    Clinkz would have abouts 60 base damage, 50 from his orb and about 55 from ulti (can he eat large centaur that early on or is it just eidolons that have a level req?) and assuming a 1 second attack time (which looks too long to me, I'll test it once I get home) he's gonna do 1650 damage in the duration of rank 4 Strafe.
    Arguably, his damage is going to be lower because larger values get reduced more by armor but he'd also do damage outside of his spell cooldowns.

    Yes, this does require that he be what, level...10 or so? Not too tall of an order for the 20-25 minute mark
    Last edited by mmoc24ed1da916; 2012-11-21 at 11:48 AM.

  15. #3575
    Sven is not a support because without items, he is not a significant threat.

    Sven provides (according to dota2wiki)
    - 2 second aoe stun and 325 damage
    - %12 movement speed and 16 armor for 8 seconds.

    Other than these buffs and utility, support Sven brings nothing to game which makes him useless as a support. No1 is going to let a Sven without key items to approach and hit more than one swing, if not no swings at all. His biggest weakness is vulnerability to CC. Actually he is not more vulnerable than most heroes in game but he needs not to be cced in order to output some damage. If you want AoE stun, the king is Tide Hunter. Movement Speed and Armor buffs are good but its just a slight advantage(or not advantage at all depending on enemy team composition).

    @Pizza
    You are overestimating situationally useful buffs so hard and I don't know why. Also that AoE stun is not guaranteed and can easily be avoided unlike TH.

  16. #3576
    The fact that you can ignore Dazzle and just kill his allies but you can't ignore Sven or he will kill your allies can't be ignored.

  17. #3577
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    The fact that you can ignore Dazzle and just kill his allies but you can't ignore Sven or he will kill your allies can't be ignored.
    A support Sven can easily be nuked to death. A little harder than dazzle maybe but not such great difference. He's like shadow shaman, you can't ignore but brings way way less benefit compared to shaman as a support.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-11-21 at 12:29 PM.

  18. #3578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    and how you gonna lvlup warcry, stun and stats to actually use this spells ?
    soul ring is not enough (mana for 1 bolt on 30s cd) and you need to buy wards/supportstuff anyway
    on paper he looks great as you said
    in practice all he can do is stun once for 100-175dmg maybe use lowlvl warcry (MS is still nice tho) and thats all

    sven sucks as 5
    as 4 mayybe if your team is already wining
    "Support," doesn't mean "takes no farm," it means "this guy will be getting support items instead of carry items," and it's rare to have only one support on a team.

    Why the hell would you level stats on Sven? He doesn't need them. The only reason you get stats on Leoric is because crit is garbage without damage and his aura can't be turned off, otherwise you'd always do stun/aura. Bracers and branches provide you with all the base mana you need and Soul Ring guarantees you a free stun every 30 sec, plus gives you HP/mana regen for very little cost. You might take stats instead of cleave afterwards, but I don't think that'd be as good as just having the ability to carve up creep waves with a few swings.

    Support Sven is more like an Omniknight or a Dazzle - he can't be played as a hard/5 support, he needs at least a little bit of farm and he needs XP.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  19. #3579
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    "Support," doesn't mean "takes no farm," it means "this guy will be getting support items instead of carry items," and it's rare to have only one support on a team.
    thanks, didnt know that


    Why the hell would you level stats on Sven? He doesn't need them
    *mana*

  20. #3580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    A support Sven can easily be nuked to death. A little harder than dazzle maybe but not such great difference. He's like shadow shaman, you can't ignore but brings way way less benefit compared to shaman as a support.
    ANY hero can be easily nuked to death unless they have a crapton of MR like Anti-Mage or Viper. Carry Sven doesn't fucking build survivability items, he builds for damage - BKB and the obligatory Bracer are probably all he's gonna have for the entire game unless it goes longer than 30-35 minutes, maybe a Lothars if he's playing a Pirate-like build or a MoM/HotD if he's gonna go for a more "right-click until it's dead and move on to next target," build. Maybe the lifesteal will help him survive but it's rare to see pros building for lifesteal anyway because it's so unreliable outside of BKB/Repel as a means of keeping yourself alive.

    The main difficulty with support Sven is that he needs at least a little farm and a lot of XP, which makes him awkward to fit into the current style of play at the pro level - same thing with Dazzle, Omni, etc. It doesn't mean that it's bad, just that it doesn't fit right now.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

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