Isn't it about time the Mens' Rights Movement stopped being treated like a joke?

[Laize]

It's rather uncomfortable, restrictive, and carries a risk of death.

Yeah... you have a better chance of dying driving to the hospital than dying in child birth. 21 per 100,000 last year.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Yeah... you have a better chance of dying driving to the hospital than dying in child birth. 21 per 100,000 last year.

How many people die on average on each trip specifically to the hospital?

[Deleted]

It's rather uncomfortable, restrictive, and carries a risk of death.

Ahh you mean the 0.01% risk of death (atleast here in the UK). I don't really care about the other two.

[Rukentuts]

and if the female removes her rights & responsibilities theres no child to support.

There's adoption and abortion. Which are two more choices than men currently have.

[Benitora]

You know the problem is that so many people consider men's rights a joke.

Men simply do not have equal parenting rights. Men's health awareness is pathetic in comparison to the funding received for women's health. Suicide rates for men in their early twenties is disturbingly high, yet little public awareness exists.

How can people here not see the irony of saying that men's rights are a joke???

I'm guessing it comes from the oh thousands or so years of male supremacy, where women really haven't had much right...at all.
The right for education for females are still being fought for around the world, the fight for females having the right to earn as much money as a male, or even work, is still a big issue.

I'm guessing in the bigger picture of things, male problems just don't seem that large.
Not saying we should dismiss them, but saying Male problems around the world = Female problems simply is not true.

[Laize]

Fun fact; a woman who works 40+ hours a week is considered an absentee mother, a man who does it is a 'good provider'. There's inequality on both sides of the custody fence.

Also, how many cures for erectile dysfunction do we need?

"Cures for erectile dysfunction" weren't researched as such. Drugs like Viagra were originally intended to treat chest pain and hypertension. Not cause boners. One of the side effects was a boner that wouldn't quit, even in old men. They decided to market it as such.

[Deleted]

Preeeetty much. Her body, her choice. Hell, for most of the time the foetus is pretty much a parasite that can't live outside her body -anyway-.

The fact of the matter is that it is not equal, and will never be equal because men cannot get pregnant. Yet.

.....yet? Never mind, that's not worth it.

You're still operating under the argument that "it's her body". If that's the best justification you have, it's pretty poor. If your concern is for the child then a joint decision on their existence only makes sense. If your concern is for the mother alone then it's nothing but self interest.

The most logical option would be to have non required abortion also be consensual. If the mother wanted an abortion and the father wanted the baby, then the father would be fully liable for all medical costs and care of the mother during the term plus a nominal amount of time for recovery. Afterwards the mother could forfeit all rights to the child.

But it's her body right? No reason to take anyone else's well being into consideration.

[Celista]

I've noticed that the people who use that term most commonly are people who are what they are accusing others of being.

You can look through my posts (although I don't post on here often) to see I don't wax philosophic on mmo-champ.

You know the problem is that so many people consider men's rights a joke.

I'd say that the amount of people who consider men's rights a joke is roughly equal to the amount of people who take feminism and women's rights as a joke. Men's studies is a relatively new field, my undergrad university offered courses in men's studies but no major/minor. I know of at least one university that has a men's studies minor.

[Deleted]

I'm guessing it comes from the oh thousands or so years of male supremacy, where women really haven't had much right...at all.
The right for education for females are still being fought for around the world, the fight for females having the right to earn as much money as a male, or even work, is still a big issue.

I'm guessing in the bigger picture of things, male problems just don't seem that large.
Not saying we should dismiss them, but saying Male problems around the world = Female problems simply is not true.

Nobody said that, this discussion is purely revolving about the developed world. So perhaps you'd like to not change the criteria for discussion in order to make a counter argument.

I fully agree with the claim that women's rights internationally are not up to standard, but we're not discussing that right now.

[Laize]

There's adoption and abortion. Which are two more choices than men currently have.

I'm still wondering what would happen if a father who didn't want to be a father took the kid and surrendered it under a safe haven law.

Could that even be done?

[Elegiac]

.....yet? Never mind, that's not worth it.

You're still operating under the argument that "it's her body". If that's the best justification you have, it's pretty poor. If your concern is for the child then a joint decision on their existence only makes sense. If your concern is for the mother alone then it's nothing but self interest.

The most logical option would be to have non required abortion also be consensual. If the mother wanted an abortion and the father wanted the baby, then the father would be fully liable for all medical costs and care of the mother during the term plus a nominal amount of time for recovery. Afterwards the mother could forfeit all rights to the child.

But it's her body right? No reason to take anyone else's well being into consideration.

Because the child doesn't concern me. Prior to 24 weeks it's not even sentient. Any argument to the contrary is just moralising bullshit from people with nothing better to do than meddle in the affairs of people trying to live their lives.

Money doesn't cover the pain and suffering component of being pregnant. So, yeah.

[welcome2life]

There is a big fence... on one side is a blazing hellfire, on the other is a hell frozen over.

One side has men the other side has women.

The men complain about their problems, the women complain about their problems.

Only a small majority wants to address the problems on both sides of the fence.

Whining is a majority of the discussion and very little progress if any is ever made.

[Deleted]

Because the child doesn't concern me. Prior to 24 weeks it's not even sentient. Any argument to the contrary is just moralising bullshit from people with nothing better to do than meddle in the affairs of people trying to live their lives.

Money doesn't cover the pain and suffering component of being pregnant. So, yeah.

But men should be liable to pay for the woman's decision? Also I never mentioned sentience, good job sticking on topic. We should certainly take into consideration the woman's feelings, but you think we ought to ignore the feelings of the man?

[Laize]

Because the child doesn't concern me. Prior to 24 weeks it's not even sentient. Any argument to the contrary is just moralising bullshit from people with nothing better to do than meddle in the affairs of people trying to live their lives.

Money doesn't cover the pain and suffering component of being pregnant. So, yeah.

Pain and suffering... huh? I've heard precious few stories where women didn't like being pregnant and the attention/emotions that came with it. There are always some ill effects but I know no one who rates the overall experience as "pain and suffering".

[Elegiac]

But men should be liable to pay for the woman's decision? Also I never mentioned sentience, good job sticking on topic. We should certainly take into consideration the woman's feelings, but you think we ought to ignore the feelings of the man?

Well, by the logic of the anti-choice people, 'it's just a consequence of having sex'.

I consider bodily autonomy a more pressing issue than monetary autonomy. Not that I wouldn't like a resolution for the latter, however.

[Benitora]

Nobody said that, this discussion is purely revolving about the developed world. So perhaps you'd like to not change the criteria for discussion in order to make a counter argument.

I fully agree with the claim that women's rights internationally are not up to standard, but we're not discussing that right now.

Right, so male problems are:
Not having equal rights for parental rights. Extremely high possibility of loosing the trial for parental right. (Let's face it, few fathers win those trials)
Having a disturbingly high suicide rate from the age of 20-25 which have yet to be properly addressed. (Which is most likely a problem caused by the modernization of how the male should act and behave through the Media)
Has a higher possibility of Jail due to false charges than the female. (At least to my knowledge of cases where the truth comes out later during trials)

In my opinion, the biggest problem is not specifically male or female right when it comes to western countries where we can get a mayhap reliable statistic over these things, my guess would be on the Media bringing forth stereotypes of female and male creating a lot of these problems.

[Elegiac]

Pain and suffering... huh? I've heard precious few stories where women didn't like being pregnant and the attention/emotions that came with it. There are always some ill effects but I know no one who rates the overall experience as "pain and suffering".

Anecdotal. A significant amount of psychological damage is inflicted by carrying a child you don't want, as the APA consensus goes.

[Deleted]

Well, by the logic of the anti-choice people, 'it's just a consequence of having sex'.

I consider bodily autonomy a more pressing issue than monetary autonomy. Not that I wouldn't like a resolution for the latter, however.

Alright, what sort of resolution for the latter would you like to see?

[Deleted]

Pain and suffering... huh? I've heard precious few stories where women didn't like being pregnant and the attention/emotions that came with it. There are always some ill effects but I know no one who rates the overall experience as "pain and suffering".

For many mothers childbirth and pregnancy was such a painful, harrowing and excruciating experience they chose to do it over, and over and over again.

[Laize]

Anecdotal. A significant amount of psychological damage is inflicted by carrying a child you don't want, as the APA consensus goes.

Who the hell is suggesting women carry children they don't want?