Anyone else think that Totem should not be considered as spells?

[Endus]

BTW, has anyone tested the full implications of this yet? For example, can Mages spell-steal totem effects?

I haven't tested it specifically, but that should not, for the most part, be affected by this change. What's changing is the totem summon spells. Those are becoming actual spells and thus not usable while silenced/etc. The spells the TOTEM casts are something entirely different and separate.

They couldn't Spellsteal the Elemental, for instance, because it's "cast" by the Fire Elemental Totem; there's no buff on you to steal. They couldn't Spellsteal most effects for the same reason; it's being cast/used by the totem, and they don't have a totem to provide it. The one exception MIGHT be Stone Bulwark Totem, where the shield lasts 10 seconds without the totem, but they'd just get the initial shield, and even then I don't believe it's eligible.

[Deleted]

I haven't tested it specifically, but that should not, for the most part, be affected by this change. What's changing is the totem summon spells. Those are becoming actual spells and thus not usable while silenced/etc. The spells the TOTEM casts are something entirely different and separate.

They couldn't Spellsteal the Elemental, for instance, because it's "cast" by the Fire Elemental Totem; there's no buff on you to steal. They couldn't Spellsteal most effects for the same reason; it's being cast/used by the totem, and they don't have a totem to provide it. The one exception MIGHT be Stone Bulwark Totem, where the shield lasts 10 seconds without the totem, but they'd just get the initial shield, and even then I don't believe it's eligible.

Yes, mages can spell steal Bulwark's absorb shield.

[Chainreactor]

Yes, mages can spell steal Bulwark's absorb shield.

Bulwark is weaksauce

Whats funny is Mages on Live are able to steal 18000 Mastery Buff from Demo Warlocks lol

[Priority]

This nerf is pretty much a game changer. Simply you can kill a shaman in a silence and there is nothing they can do minus use a battlemaster trinket. I don't remember if you can use healthstones while silenced, I don't think you can. As far as resto goes earthshield can already be dispelled/purged etc... So I will use a rmp ( I know rmp is not what is used to be ) opener as a example as a 100% kill on the shaman. I just cant see how shamans will survive a proper swap with a silence. Blizz would have to buff Astral Shift since as it stands it is not very compelling. As far as enchancement and elemental, the nerf in some regards is even worse.

This nerf is not just a nerf to a core ability, it's like changing bubble or iceblock to not be able to be used while silenced.

They need to find a better way, or significantly improve Astral Shift. I would say buff spritwalkers grace but that would only help resto with the 4pc bonus.

It is disappointing that this is all they could come up with.

[Blitond]

The nerf is not just a nerf to a core ability, it's like changing bubble or iceblock to not be able to be used while silenced.

Something I'm advocating for. Also no barkskin and shifting for druids while silenced.

[Deleted]

why not remove totems? they are getting useles and useles with every fucking patch / expansion comes and goes..

[Drdraenei]

Why are resto shamans getting the blame for this? All 3 specs can for the time being drop totems when locked which will not be the case after this week.

Now our "spells" can be dispelled by auto attacks.

Blizzard is a shambles, sooner or later will all have the same abilities and we will be carbon copies of each other.

They have lost the imagination and all BlizzVision care about now are the £$£, when in the past did you ever hear them say what would you prefer a MoP event or a new raid, in the past they would have gave us both, now we have GC thinking he is a demigod and can do what he wants.

All we need to do is complain that warriors have too many interrupts and they will get some of them taken off them, then rogues have too many stuns and they will get their stuns taken off them, cause rather than do actual work to balance things out they just nerf classes and this will continue until we are all the same with different skins!

[Seriss]

Why are resto shamans getting the blame for this? All 3 specs can for the time being drop totems when locked which will not be the case after this week.

Now our "spells" can be dispelled by auto attacks.

Welcome back to BC.

I remember dying ridiculously often in Stratholme (!) during Baron runs at level 70 (!) because I couldn't do a thing when those mobs there perma-silenced me all the time. Yeah, so I kept adding mobs with my big draenei butt, sue me. >_> *embarrassed* As soon as the WotLK patch came out, the one that made totem casts possible while silenced, I could magma-totem those creatures down while being a sitting duck at least.

I hate this backwards change as much as the next person, seeing as we are easily locked down from spell-casting as it is, seemingly being the only healer with a very limited toolkit of instant-casts (hey, it does feel like it). But whatever... it's not like I care about arenas anyway. I've long since buried my dreams of getting Grand Marshall anyway since I don't have time for competitive BGing as it is. And for completing the random BG achievement stuff, everything will suffice. *shrugs* At least I'm not a level 70 resto shaman that desperately tries to do a Baron run solo anymore.

They could at least make Astral Shift usable while incapacitated in any way...

[Waterisbest]

Game breaking change. Resto Shaman was strong in PvP. What about Enha and Ele? They are COMPLETELY ruined now. With this nerf, even Resto Shamans have a taken a massive hit. No defense while silenced, meaning we are a training dummy for everyone.

Totems already require HEAVY management in PvP and PvE. It's not a simple mechanic, where you can just spam a button and go "HAHA". Now they will require EVEN further management, knowledge and awareness to use them. We have more then 10 totems ffs.

Really stupid change, ruined my day after reading that it official.

[Dundebuns]

Why are resto shamans getting the blame for this? All 3 specs can for the time being drop totems when locked which will not be the case after this week.

Because Resto shaman can still put out a lot of healing or mitigation when silenced. Get silenced? Drop SLT or HTT and survive comfortably. I do agree this change is over the top. Totems should be susceptible to lock outs, but still dropable when silenced. You'll be able to chain 12 seconds of silence and CC not for a guaranteed kill :/

[Tydrane]

I'm gonna try this again.

Okay, so I've more than skim-read this thread, and I see a lot of people talking about compensation. I can't honestly say I'd be amenable to that, as an Enhancement Shaman. It surprises me that people who play Elemental are, in some cases.

The way I see it, there are three specs, as with every other class, for a shaman to play, and two "modes" of play, PvE and PvP.

As unpalatable as the solution may be, the only reasonable ways of "fixing" PvP Resto heals would seem to be attacking either PvP Power for healing across all classes, or attacking something Resto-specific, being either their Mastery or their toolkit.

If someone who just stumbled onto this thread were curious, this is how we feel as Elemental and Enhancement Shamans: "What did we do to deserve this?"

The answer is "Nothing." We have been under-performing through no fault of our own, and we have taken it in our stride since the release of MoP, hoping things would get better. Now, we're being punished for somebody else's problems. There is almost, if not completely unanimous agreement among Shamans that Resto is OP in PvP, but there is likewise unanimous agreement that this is not the way to fix it, and that consensus comes not only from Shamans, but from other classes as well.

There are numerous ways that this can have a painful effect on even Enhancement Shamans, who even in this thread have been largely dismissed as minimally impacted by the changes. These are anecdotal from my own personal experience as Enhancement - I do not like nor participate in Arenas, and am gearing up for PvP presently, and hope(d) to move into Rated BGs with a PvP guild.

1. If we are silenced before we can drop Searing Totem, we lose the benefit of 20% additional damage to our Lava Lash ability (per stack).
2. If blanket silenced, we have no means of snaring opponents - Frost Shock will be locked out, as will Earthbind or Earthgrab Totem(if talented). This, in combination to locking us out of Windwalk Totem (also a talent) will increase the ability of casters and hunters to kite us.
3. Our only stun, the already paltry Capacitor Totem, will have its utility drastically reduced, becoming near worthless against anything with a blanket silence.
4. Tremor Totem appears to have been specifically designed to be able to break fear. This functionality is now effectively removed.

I'm sure there are more that I can't think of right now, and more for Elemental to speak of, too. Compensation will not suffice, short of a Ele/Enh buff allowing totems to be dropped while silenced. This change must be reversed, and then Blizzard can begin to discuss other ways to bring Resto down without ruining the rest of us.

[Deleted]

I think the issue is that many people see it as "here's an official Twitter feed that lets us ask the dev team about things directly", and Ghostcrawler sees it as "here's my unofficial Twitter feed to muck about with when I'm on break". I don't recall there being an announcement that Ghostcrawler was joining Twitter on the official site, nor did he open the account with any big official statements.

It's not an official blog post, and people are treating it as if it were.

Ok It's not an official blog post. But he is the lead designer, his account with the name "Ghostcrawler" and he talk about the game!!!

What do you want us to think about what he wrote on tweeter?? Of course players will take it as if It's official!! He's the fucking lead designer!!! If he dont want us to "think about what he said" on twitter, he have to shut the fuck up!! Or change his name account and just talk with his friends about the weather..... But not about wow as Gostcrawler, the lead designer!!

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 07:29 PM ----------

Shaman needs to be on pair with the other healer specs.
I have all the healer specs, mainly arenas, and Shaman, wich has the highest skill cap BTW (if well played), is the most viable in EVERY way. Offensively and defensively.

This is a very needed nerf to a class that is obviously very strong.

no hard feelings.

You are talking about resto and healing from the start and then you said "this is a very needed nerf to a "CLASS" that is obviously too strong"????

Do you know their is some people who dont play shaman as a resto??? Enhe and ele exist dude!!!

Nerf the spec, not the class....

[Kalan]

Anyway I am done with that game, only change in the patch is a nerf to our class.

See you when the devs start to use their "logic" when it come to balance...

[Deleted]

Where in the patch notes is the change to hybrid healing ?

[Nebria]

it is a quick shot nerf which won't affect pve. if they would touch other aspects of resto to "nerf" them they would nerf them for pve too. so this was the easiest way and in the end ele and enhace are collateral damage that doesn't matter. it is sad but true. I really hope they will find some other ways so that they can provide a better solution with 5.2. even some buffs would be nice but it needs more time and bigger changes need also more time to develop.

[Tydrane]

it is a quick shot nerf which won't affect pve. if they would touch other aspects of resto to "nerf" them they would nerf them for pve too. so this was the easiest way and in the end ele and enhace are collateral damage that doesn't matter. it is sad but true. I really hope they will find some other ways so that they can provide a better solution with 5.2. even some buffs would be nice but it needs more time and bigger changes need also more time to develop.

I'm sorry, but if there's any collateral damage, it should be Resto's PvE performance, and I say that having a PvE Resto Shammy as well as an Enhancement one.

[Stormspellz]

it is a quick shot nerf which won't affect pve. if they would touch other aspects of resto to "nerf" them they would nerf them for pve too. so this was the easiest way and in the end ele and enhace are collateral damage that doesn't matter. it is sad but true. I really hope they will find some other ways so that they can provide a better solution with 5.2. even some buffs would be nice but it needs more time and bigger changes need also more time to develop.

cop out, there are plenty of ways to nerf resto that would have minmal effect on pve,

make es undispel able again but drop the healing bonus
totem restoration to be a flat 10-15% off the cd totems
unleashed fury adds a 50% hot instead of boosting the direct heal.

[Teriz]

I really can't believe they made this live. Unbelievable.

I really wouldn't be surprised if most DPS PvP Shaman just rerolled to the other DPS casters or to the other melee hybrids.

Just a really senseless nerf. Completely unnecessary in every respect. Yeah Resto Shaman were strong in PvP, but they weren't even close to being OP.

[zenga]

Yeah Resto Shaman were strong in PvP, but they weren't even close to being OP.

Resto shaman was incredibly OP in the previous patch with having more answers to cc than other healers, and better healing.

[Raiju]

I haven't tested it specifically, but that should not, for the most part, be affected by this change. What's changing is the totem summon spells. Those are becoming actual spells and thus not usable while silenced/etc. The spells the TOTEM casts are something entirely different and separate.

They couldn't Spellsteal the Elemental, for instance, because it's "cast" by the Fire Elemental Totem; there's no buff on you to steal. They couldn't Spellsteal most effects for the same reason; it's being cast/used by the totem, and they don't have a totem to provide it. The one exception MIGHT be Stone Bulwark Totem, where the shield lasts 10 seconds without the totem, but they'd just get the initial shield, and even then I don't believe it's eligible.

How about Dark Sim though? It works differently than spellsteal in that it will copy the next spell you cast... I wouldn't be surprised if it started grabbing totems.