It's startling how fast game activity is falling

[Immitis]

You're also playing WoW. The carebear MMO of them all.

Back in the day if you were a hardcore raider you actually did raid for 15hrs, wipe after wipe after wipe. Men would even bring in piss bottles to not be AFK, as the screaming RL will be sure to kick your ass out if you did (why too many of them are on drugs, too). Knew a hardcore raiding Swashie from EQ2 who worked a 40hrs a week as a contractor, and came back home to raid 6 to 8hrs a night. He finally realized with a wife and kid dedicating another 40hrs a week he should be paid for it, and he quit the avatar scene. His family thanked him for it, too (as I knew his wife).

WoW hardcore is nothing like that. Might as well call it softcore, as a typical WoW raider raids 2hrs 2x a week. Being called "bad" in WoW is like 2 year-old crying on the playground in comparison.

this /10chars

Infracted: Minor Spam - ML

[Kevyne-Shandris]

I changed servers, the server i was on Aerie Peak has two good guilds and rest are pretty bad. Went to lightbringer a good raiding server and things are much better. That is the only way to really change your surroundings.

Are you willing to pay for 6 accounts worth of toons to transfer?

I thought not.

[Unclekreepy]

I burnt myself out in the first 3 weeks playing non stop, then I took a couple weeks off... now im back to playing.


which im sure a lot of people did.

[GrieverXIII]

You're also playing WoW. The carebear MMO of them all.

Back in the day if you were a hardcore raider you actually did raid for 15hrs, wipe after wipe after wipe. Men would even bring in piss bottles to not be AFK, as the screaming RL will be sure to kick your ass out if you did (why too many of them are on drugs, too). Knew a hardcore raiding Swashie from EQ2 who worked a 40hrs a week as a contractor, and came back home to raid 6 to 8hrs a night. He finally realized with a wife and kid dedicating another 40hrs a week he should be paid for it, and he quit the avatar scene. His family thanked him for it, too (as I knew his wife).

WoW hardcore is nothing like that. Might as well call it softcore, as a typical WoW raider raids 2hrs 2x a week. Being called "bad" in WoW is like 2 year-old crying on the playground in comparison.

So WoW is easy and requires a reasonable amount of time to be succesfull at, yet you, Osmeric and a few others keep crying for nerfs? Not sure i follow your logic there.

[isadorr]

You're also playing WoW. The carebear MMO of them all.

Back in the day if you were a hardcore raider you actually did raid for 15hrs, wipe after wipe after wipe. Men would even bring in piss bottles to not be AFK, as the screaming RL will be sure to kick your ass out if you did (why too many of them are on drugs, too). Knew a hardcore raiding Swashie from EQ2 who worked a 40hrs a week as a contractor, and came back home to raid 6 to 8hrs a night. He finally realized with a wife and kid dedicating another 40hrs a week he should be paid for it, and he quit the avatar scene. His family thanked him for it, too (as I knew his wife).

WoW hardcore is nothing like that. Might as well call it softcore, as a typical WoW raider raids 2hrs 2x a week. Being called "bad" in WoW is like 2 year-old crying on the playground in comparison.

If you have real good players i could see the 2 hour raid nights twice a week but if that is what most guilds do, no wonder overall progression is really bad. Amd I did raid back then and loved it the idea of having to do other quests to even get into a raiding zone was fantastic. it kept out most lazy people who wanted loot but didnt want to actually do anything for it. I think if Wow brought a mmo on the market that had things of that nature and left wow for the wrath babies it would be very successful. Once you gave away loot and started nerfing everything, the game and player base was going to be diluted.

[Kissme]

It

Would be better if they offered it like LFD and the results put you higher/lower in the challenge making system. Similiar to how arenas work with a decent MMR like ranking system of players. Would love to have it in heroics, so players can be ranked by performance and social skills, not just stupid speed runs.

This would be amazing.

Unfortunately I can't think of a single non-abusable, non-gameable way to rank players by social skills, that wouldn't also rely on the return of server based grouping and reputation which is what challenge dungeons already rely on.

[Osmeric]

Ok I'm not gonna bother with you anymore. You just keep on hating wow.

So, I take it you're not going to admit the point I made there was obviously correct? Nah, just call me a hater and slink off, that'll convince people!

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 08:50 PM ----------

So WoW is easy and requires a reasonable amount of time to be succesfull at, yet you, Osmeric and a few others keep crying for nerfs? Not sure i follow your logic there.

I have a proposal for you: you don't write that I'm "crying" for nerfs, and I won't write that you're "foaming at the mouth" for hard content.

Deal?

[isadorr]

Are you willing to pay for 6 accounts worth of toons to transfer?

I thought not.

I paid for my 10 toons but I work so it wasn't that big of a deal.

[GrieverXIII]

Fun fact, a LOT of the top end hardcore raiders spend much less time on the game when progression (wich is usually a month or so nowadays) is done than most "casual" raiding guild still wiping on stuff they are farming once a week for multiple months.

[hyphnos]

This confusing to me. What is it that takes people so much time? I see so much wasted time in another guild i have my alt in and then hear them bitch they dont have time to do all that they want. get on and do what you need then get off. It really doesnt take a lot of time to get on, knock out dailies or buy or farm what you need for the day. Exalted doesnt take long then you could be done with dailies or mess with a alt. The people i see everyday that whine are the ones sitting in vent bitching as they sit in shrine of 7 stars or sit in sw doing nothing.

It boils down to this: What many people consider a "lot" of time is clearly not what you think of as a "lot" of time.

In a given day, I try to do one set of dailies, one dungeon on my main and I try to get my main and 1 alt through LFR in the course of the week. That is the bare minimum of what I consider I need to do to keep up with my playstyle which had evolved to a valor gear/LFR progression.

Doing that takes up pretty much ALL the time I want to devote to a single game and as you can see it leaves a lot left undone that could be done, some of which I'd like to do.

There's no reason that they decided to cap valor and get our factions maxxed we had to log in every day or lose a day's worth of progress that if it can be recovered at all (by running 2 dungeons instead of 1) or not at all (a skipped daily's faction can never be made up).

I'm revered with everything I need to be nearly exalted with Aug Celestials, already exalted with Klaxxi and Golden Lotus. I'm not speaking from sitting on my ass doing nothing. I know what the heck I'm talking about when I say by the time I get home from work do 1-2 sets of dailies a dungeon, squeeze in LFR that I feel utterly worn out.

I never felt worn out in Wrath or from 4.2 on in Cataclysm and I never cringed at the thought of levelling an alt - til now.

Fixating on what other people do or whether other people complain is your problem. Maybe you find what you want to do doable in an acceptable amount of your free time. I don't and many others don't. There's nothing hard to comprehend about it. It's all a matter of what you want to do and how much time it takes to get it done and there is, for any of these activities a minimum amount of time involved.

And the biggest complaint of all I have is that Blizzard seems to place no value at all on our time. Back when I was doing 2-3 quest hubs per day, I truly resent that 15 to 20 or more minutes of my precious free time was basically spent travelling from place to place. Transit time in Pandaria is ridiculous when considered on top of all the other timesinks and increased inputs for point rewards and such.

If you don't get it now, then I don't know what else to say.

[Osmeric]

Fun fact, a LOT of the top end hardcore raiders spend much less time on the game when progression (wich is usually a month or so nowadays) is done than most "casual" raiding guild still wiping on stuff they are farming once a week for multiple months.

Yes, this is well known. The skill gap across the playerbase is very wide.

[isadorr]

This would be amazing.

Unfortunately I can't think of a single non-abusable, non-gameable way to rank players by social skills, that wouldn't also rely on the return of server based grouping and reputation which is what challenge dungeons already rely on.

Are you serious? Ranked by social skills? When you start pushing progression you are going to worry about social skills rofl?

[Stede]

And XFire is accurate? Come on, no one uses that sh*t, except a certain demographic that happens to play less... Let me guess, that same demographic happens to play shooters... It's nice that you want to say something meaningful, but it didn't work out, sorry.

It's nice that you're waving off data with your guesses at confounding factors, but too bad you don't have anything substantive to back it up. Jesus christ people - of course it's suspect, but it doesn't mean you're right, either - you've less data than the OP.

So leave it there and STFU.

[hyphnos]

So WoW is easy and requires a reasonable amount of time to be succesfull at, yet you, Osmeric and a few others keep crying for nerfs? Not sure i follow your logic there.

Just so I understand, what do you consider a "reasonable" amount of time to be successful?
And what is your definition of "success"?

Because how much time you have to put in to be successful is very much dependent on what you want to accomplish in game and unless you just log in, raid and log out, I don't see how the amount of playtime even approaches what I consider to be reasonable.

Mists has nothing to do with difficulty except for traditional raiders and everything to do with time input, strongly incentivized to doing it on a daily basis.

In any case I'm curious to see what your answers are.

[isadorr]

Yes, this is well known. The skill gap across the playerbase is very wide.

Exactly, this is what happens when you keep nerfing content and giving away free gear. Why try to get better? Why actually learn to play your class? Blizzard will nerf it if they cry and whine enough. Talk about a 2 year old in a playground, this is the bads exactly. They would rather sit and whine then get better. Others mention like hyphnos that he liked super easy cata after 4.2 and lol wrath. Of course you did, it was ridicilously easy and set up differently but i guess the 1% percent people like to mention or the people that have been playing for a long time were important enough to change things back. People choose to not get better at the game, we all know how easy it is.

[Peacemoon]

And thank the GODESS that they DIDN'T put it right at the center of progression! That's basically what happened with Cata... and it became an infuriatingly long tedious and painful bottleneck players had to get through compared to a fast and fun adventure like Wrath LFD was.

Why did it go to "periphery"? Because of all you people who complained you found challenge to be fun were lying... you didn't find challenge fun... What you found fun was the stat-loot you got that made you statistically superior to other people who couldn't get it, thus satisfying your own ego.

You people are the ones who give people like Osmeric a bad name. Osmeric was one of the few who actually EMBRACED challenge modes because (Gasp!) he found challenge fun, unlike the rest of you who were lying through your teeth!

With such an emotionally charged reply I realise an objective and logical argument would be impossible with you, but well done for replying twice to the same post and each time quoting a single sentence, rather than reply to the point as a whole

[Osmeric]

Exactly, this is what happens when you keep nerfing content and giving away free gear. Why try to get better?

No, I don't think most of those who are bad would have gotten better. I think there's an inherent skill gap, and nerfing is just catering to it. Cataclysm was based on the idea that challenge would lead to improvement. It failed because that doesn't work overall.

[Deleted]

Hours spent playing WoW typically reaches a peak right after an expansion releases, then gradually declines. The decline this time, however, looks like it's much more rapid.

On XFire, weekly hours spent playing WoW are down over 50% from the week of the release:

Week Ending | Hours Played
Sept 30 | 67,659
Nov 27 | 32,617

(this is not a Thanksgiving weekend effect, btw; the decline has been inexorable for the past two months.)

See Nosy Gamer's blog for this data and a spreadsheet with other weeks, as well as data for other games:

http://nosygamer.blogspot.com/search.../digital_dozen

Warcraft Realms also shows activity data. It's noisier and less reliable, but appears to be tracking the XFire decline

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/weeklyfactionactivity.php

(Compare to this archived image of the decline after the release of Cataclysm)

http://inanage.files.wordpress.com/2...vitygraph2.png

And the point is?

[hyphnos]

And the point is?

Stated in the tile of the thread.

[Maruka]

I think its because the xp is not alt friendly so far so a lot of people that would normally play and level alts just dont have the drive to do it.