Why is the US preventing Palestinian UN membership?

[Gothicshark]

Anyway, no peaceful solution is possible as long as the US continues to support Israel unconditionally. Israel doesn't want peace, they want a larger slice of the "Promised Land".

I think you have your facts wrong, Read http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp In case it is TL;DR this is the Hamas Charter they want an Islamic controlled Middle East with no governments that are not based on the Koran. They want every Jew in the region dead. They want every Palestinian to be 100% faithful to Islam. They are not willing to negotiate these principles. Hamas has 67% popular support with Palestinians right now. Israel has signed every treaty, has negotiated peace after every hostility and has never once done a first strike against Palestine. Israel has given Palestinians back Land as a part of the negotiations, land won legally in War against Arab nations. Look for actual facts on this conflict, you have the internet stop watching force feed media and think for your self.

[Wells]

Fantastic! And for some reason, people thinking supporting a Palestinian government who murders gay people and suppresses it's women is a step forward in human rights.

Dire situations breed extremism. If you want a better Palestine start treating them a real nation.

[Deleted]

Because the USA is horrifically corrupt, and is basically run by lobbyists.


It's fucking ridiculous some of the stuff the US government does, I remember watching some documentary which showed how the US government rejected a 'healthy school lunches' programme (Similar to what we have here in the UK), because the junk food lobby's would lose out on too much money, so they just went ahead and classed fucking pizza as one of a kids '5 fruit/veg a day'.

[Deleted]

Dire situations breed extremism. If you want a better Palestine start treating them a real nation.

How do you treat an made up, false idea - conducted by several parts - as if it was real?

The region is ravaged in conflict between two ideals and was probably one of the biggest blunders i have had the pleasure to read about in modern history.

If you really do want to solve the problem, abolish the entire idea of it being a promised land.
Absurd, i know.

[Kekkiki]

Do you know that history? or are you using someone else's propaganda? The difference is the "Zionist" movement was a small portion of the Jewish population in the British Colony known as Palestine. Both Muslim and Zionist extremists where attacking British troops trying to get them to leave. The King David Hotel was the final straw which caused the British to hand over the territory. However the way they did so ensured the last 64 years in the middle east would be violent. They split the land up and gave it to different groups regardless of who lived there.

What's also interesting about that map is that in those times Palestinians were the majority yet recieved the least amount of land in that plan. That's why they rejected it by the way, it was an absolutely horrible deal for the majority to recieve the least amount of land with the minority recieving the most.

[Gothicshark]

What's also interesting about that map is that in those times Palestinians were the majority yet recieved the least amount of land in that plan. That's why they rejected it by the way, it was an absolutely horrible deal for the majority to recieve the least amount of land with the minority recieving the most.

You are wrong, the reason they were pissed was because they were Jewish and not Muslim. Most of the Muslims in the region were transplants from Turkey because the British needed cheap labor. Have you ever wondered why most Palestinians don't consider themselves Arabs? It's because most are descended from Turkey. The Jews and Arabs are Semites from that land, it has always been theirs but the Romans and Ottomans kept them from ruling their own lands. True Palestinians are a Mix of Jewish, Christian, and Muslim and most of them are fine with making peace with Israel. It's the Turkish Palestinians who hate the idea of non - Islamic rule.

[PACOX]

Get off your moral high horses.

Most people on this site are from countries that voted no or didn't vote at all.

[Gothicshark]

Get off your moral high horses.

Most people on this site are from countries that voted no or didn't vote at all.

Can you please edit down the size of the picture, I suggest using imgur.com

Also can you list the nations on that map that rely 100% on Islamic oil? can you list the nations which use 50% or less? I can give you a clue, it matches fairly closely to how they voted.

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 06:08 PM ----------

Nations that don't use Arab Oil, USA, Canada. Nations which use 50% or less UK, Germany, Czech Republic, Holland,...

Nations that use 100% Arab oil, all of Africa, Asia, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal. ...

the telling bit is Mongolia, they use 100% natural gas gained locally. They really don't care either way, and no one can make them vote either way. China which doesn't care either but it is dependent on Arab oil.

[Wells]

What is "islamic oil"?

Is that better for my car than regular oil?

And I'm not sure how you can draw conclusions like that (uncited) when only 9 nations voted no.

[Kasierith]

What is "islamic oil"?

Is that better for my car than regular oil?

And I'm not sure how you can draw conclusions like that (uncited) when only 9 nations voted no.

Because correlation and causation have never been mixed up before, isn't it obvious?

Although the "purity" of the oil from that part of the world, as well as the Baltic, do require less refining and are therefore more profitable for oil companies, and as an extension consumers.

[Wells]

Because correlation and causation have never been mixed up before, isn't it obvious?

Although the "purity" of the oil from that part of the world, as well as the Baltic, do require less refining and are therefore more profitable for oil companies, and as an extension consumers.

So its not "islamic oil" that are making all those cars blow up over there?

[Gothicshark]

What is "islamic oil"?

Is that better for my car than regular oil?

And I'm not sure how you can draw conclusions like that (uncited) when only 9 nations voted no.

If you disbelieve me look up each nation and check to see what % of the petroleum is from Muslim control areas. I am saying that carefully because Russia has large Oil reserves but the location is in heavily Ethnically Muslim areas. Because they are already having troubles with the Muslims in their nation Voting no or abstaining could cause major disruptions in Russia.

The US and Canada rely on Oil reserves in Canada and the gulf of Mexico. Holland and the UK, control most of the North Sea and a large portion of the Gulf of Mexico, Holland in particular supplies a significant portion of German oil. Which the Czech Republic uses. I know this because I can read, and I know it first hand. If you disbelieve me look it up. Ironically Dutch oil comes mostly from South America however it is sold in the US and Europe, South America uses Arab oil.

[Wells]

Its really not my job to look up your numbers.

[PACOX]

What is "islamic oil"?

Is that better for my car than regular oil?

And I'm not sure how you can draw conclusions like that (uncited) when only 9 nations voted no.

Its a flaky conclusion but its beneficial to keep the oil producers happy, who are a quite bratty bunch. Its not unheard of for oil barons to raise prices when they don't get their way. I think the poster is trying to say that countries the voted for Palastine are trying to keep their oil prices down. As you see, countries that do not rely on "Arab oil" said no or took a neutral stance.

While I am usually all about "correlation =/= causation" its paints an interesting picture. Not what I intended when I posted the map though.

[Gothicshark]

Its really not my job to look up your numbers.

Then don't complain if you lack the education to understand how the world works.

Only the Muslim countries voted because they care about a Palestinian state. And many of those did it only to throw salt in the wound. A basic principle of a totalitarian nation is to make sure the poor and powerless people hate someone else out side of their nation. As long as they do you can treat them as badly as you want.

So let's look at the power brokers in the world today, who stands to gain from increased hostility between Palestine and Israel.

Saudi Arabia - some of the worst civil rights violations on Earth.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/saudi-arabia

Iran - Do I need to spell this out?
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/iran

Between these two nations they control the Moral compass of the Islamic World, and most of it's oil as well. Why would Iran which is 1070.79 miles from Israel with no common borders, and no relationship with any of the population groups involved care so much? And before you say well they are all Muslim, Wrong most of Iran is shiite and most Arabs are Sunni, if Israel wasn't there they would be fighting each other. Israel is the scape goat for corrupt leaders to rally the masses against.

A good read is 1984, in a way it predicted this type of environment. Owell saw it happening.

[Wells]

Then don't complain if you lack the education to understand how the world works.

I wouldn't resort to flaming when you refuse to back up your data.

Your whole conspiracy is based on shaky ground in claiming only muslim countries care about Palestine.

[Gothicshark]

Its a flaky conclusion but its beneficial to keep the oil producers happy, who are a quite bratty bunch. Its not unheard of for oil barons to raise prices when they don't get their way. I think the poster is trying to say that countries the voted for Palastine are trying to keep their oil prices down. As you see, countries that do not rely on "Arab oil" said no or took a neutral stance.

While I am usually all about "correlation =/= causation" its paints an interesting picture. Not what I intended when I posted the map though.

In most things "Correlation =/= causation" but when dealing with Politics, you have to estimate what backroom deals were made. The US and Canada are not going to be taping any new Oil, and are insisting on green energy. Saudi Arabia wants the hostilities to continue, you can tell from the actions of the Royal Family.

They have a trust fund which pays Families up to $10,000 if a family member is Martyred in the struggle with Israel. (aka strap a bomb on your kid put him on a bus in Israel, get $10,000) It's sick because Israel plays right into it by retaliating harshly every time an Arab kills a Jew.

Who's guilty here? Simple Greed and Oil, that means the USA, UK, Saudi Arabia, Iran.

Who's the victim? Israel and Palestine, they should have made peace in the 70's... ohhh wait they did, Yasser Arafat and Israel eventually made peace, took them years to work it out and it lasted for almost 5-6 years. Then Yasser Arafat mysteriously dies, Hamas takes over and it has gotten to be the most hostile time in the region yet. Oh and who bank rolls Hamas? Saudi Arabia.

[Wells]

"Sure correlation =/= causation except here where I'm doing it".

[Gothicshark]

"Sure correlation =/= causation except here where I'm doing it".

What you fail to see is why would Portugal or Spain vote yes or No, Why would 150 Countries To Vote “Yes” For Palestine. And the Nations which voted No, what do they have in common? What about nations which didn't vote. Look at that map. Take you time think it through use logic. the simplest answer is usually correct. Palestine, two regions (Gaza, West Bank) in the middle east which are divided and hostile to their neighbor (Israel), which is days away from open war with each other, It has a non-functional government, and the granting Nationhood will almost guarantee a war.

"But we like the Palestinians and feel sorry for them so we will give them Nationhood."

I'm sorry that takes too much work to believe it's not simple.

Saudi Leaders call every nation on earth and tell them Palestine will be a Nation, or gas prices go up.

Which is more believable?

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 07:13 PM ----------

I should point out some of the nations that voted yes, would normally not vote the same way as their neighboring state, because they hate their neighbor. ie India and Pakistan, both have traditionally been Allies to America but secretly want to nuke each other. Pakistan is a mostly Muslim State, on merits alone India normally would vote no on something like this. They voted yes. South Africa a long term Allie of Israel, voted yes. Something fishy don't you think?

[Wells]

IDK, maybe Spain and Portugal just agree Palestine should be recognized. Occam's Razor. The simplest answer is "they just agree Palestine should be recognized", not "INTERNATIONAL CONSPIRACIES"

I mean seriously, how can you even suggest that your conspiracy theory is the simplest answer over "they agree with Palestine".