Serpent Sting hotfix buffed, about time?

[Tehterokkar]

These are the values with simc before the hotfix and a self compiled version after the hotfix. My hunter has 492 ilvl, 2-set bonus:

SV (before hotfix): 84882 dps - 1,29 Haste > 1,23 Crit > 0,65 Mastery
BM (before hotfix): 86885 dps - 1,78 Haste > 1,22 Crit > 1,15 Mastery

SV (after hotfix): 86172 dps - 1,34 Haste > 1,15 Crit > 0,65 Mastery
BM (after hotfix): 87664 dps - 1,80 Haste > 1,25 Crit > 1,20 Mastery

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This is a plot for haste/crit as the stat values for BM seemed strange:


If anyone feels interpreting this? Seems not that correct...

That doesn't seem right at all.. According to that, the buff to SrS would only affect SV DPS by 1.5%?

Looking at SV logs, SrS seems to do between 7-10% of our DPS, that should double, meaning it would now do 14-20%, which should mean a MUCH higher increase than a mere 1.5%

[kidsafe]

I might not have to just singletarget down every single amber on ambershaper anymore.

If you're a hunter assigned to kill Living Ambers on H-Ambershaper, you could go SV and multi-shot them down easily so long as any ranged fixated by them run just outside of 8 yards away from the Monstrosity or Ambershaper. The explosion radius is miniscule and you can hit all of them for collateral damage all the while. There is no mechanic that prevents people from edging that close to the boss mobs, not even Fling. It's also quite convenient for the people inside the constructs as there will be plenty of puddles for them to drink nearby.

But you probably know that already, so this is for everyone else...

[Drakoes]

Just finished doing some LFR to really test this hotfix, and SrS ends up surpassing Cobra every single time, by quite a bit. I was mainly playing BM, and the gap is even bigger as SV.

If anyone is interested in the breakdowns, let me know.

[Deleted]

Hope they can fix the problem with ISS quickly...

[Tehterokkar]

Hope they can fix the problem with ISS quickly...

Yeah, it would be quite a massive nerf to our AoE, I mean SV has been all about burst AoE since Cataclysm launched, the AoE was good mainly for ISS+Serpent Spread, SrS was mainly a little treat along with it.

[Draeblin]

@Dracodraco; that might be the case; I'm at 3518 haste in charscreen at the moment.
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BiS_T14N Profiles before/after hotfix:

before:
Hunter_BM_T14N : 91865 dps - 1.38 Crit > 1.34 Haste > 1.19 Mastery
Hunter_SV_T14N : 89995 dps - 1.23 Crit > 0.80 Haste > 0.68 Mastery

after:
Hunter_BM_T14N : 92612 dps - 1.38 Crit > 1.35 Haste > 1.20 Mastery
Hunter_SV_T14N : 91281 dps - 1.27 Crit > 0.81 Haste > 0.68 Mastery

So; ~1k dps increase.

[iggie]

Looking at my wol for wind lord mel'jarak,

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...?s=9254&e=9679

I ranked #10 SV hunter at the time.

My SrS did 8,627,758 damage (Keep in mind my ES did 11,417,813 damage 2,790,055 damage difference)

With this huge buff that would've put my SrS 17,255,516 damage which would be 5,837,703 more than my ES.

But adding 8,627,758 damage to my overall damage is the thing I really wanted to look at. That would put me at 80,343,349 damage, just trailing under the fire mage in our runs.



What? are you kidding me it's huge for multi-dot fights.

You forgot improved Srs damage was reduced.

[Dracodraco]

If you're a hunter assigned to kill Living Ambers on H-Ambershaper, you could go SV and multi-shot them down easily so long as any ranged fixated by them run just outside of 8 yards away from the Monstrosity or Ambershaper. The explosion radius is miniscule and you can hit all of them for collateral damage all the while. There is no mechanic that prevents people from edging that close to the boss mobs, not even Fling. It's also quite convenient for the people inside the constructs as there will be plenty of puddles for them to drink nearby.

But you probably know that already, so this is for everyone else...

Oh, I know, I actually tested both, and I seemed to do more dps as BM on them pre-hotfix. Mind, I had to optimise around killing ambers, as we were missing... 2 hunters, 1 lock, 1 spriest, 1 mage, 1 moonkin, 1 ele shammy in our "ranged" pool, leaving us with 2 mages, 2 locks, 1 moonkin, 1 hunter and a ele shammy as the sole ranged setup, with a VERY heavy amount of melees. Trying to keep the adds close and running out with them etc is... Annoying with so many melee.

[Deleted]

SrS ticks critting for numbers equal to ES crit ticks on my undergeared hunter.

[Tehterokkar]

You forgot improved Srs damage was reduced.

It wasn't reduced, ISS damage should be same as before, however there is either A) A Bug or B) Undocumented nerf that is currently affecting ISS, causing it to do less damage than Hotfix values say.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

fuck yeah, this is nice! at last serpent got buffed, this was due for a long time.
but they didn't quite think it through, halving serpent spread is one thing, but SV will be just so horribly powerfull on those 10+ add fights now due to the crazy dot damage. (raping all other DDs probably, even DKs)
but in this tier thats not really problem, only affects trash...
at last some means of multidotting! SV is gonna be realy strong for 3+ fights, and BM will get nearer to the top for single target fights.
the only "problem" will be 2 target cleave fights. but at least we can now do a bit more dmg than doing just singletarget dmg as BM

[Aertea]

its another band aid fix without actually addressing the problems of the class

Do people actually know what the problems of our class are? Or do they just talk without thinking.

Our performance in multi-target fights is one of the biggest problems we have in the current tier. This change addresses that problem exactly.

For my numbers, as Survival, this looks to be about a 7% buff on single target, about a 10-15% buff in 2-target Cleave, and a humongous AE buff (where we were already incredibly good anyway).

[Draeblin]

For my numbers, as Survival, this looks to be about a 7% buff on single target

Lets say you do like 80k dps with 490 gear, you would gain like 5600dps (7%)? I really doubt that. Simcraft shows ~800dps more for BM and ~1,5k dps more for SV which is much more realistic.

[Libertarian]

Do people actually know what the problems of our class are? Or do they just talk without thinking.

Our performance in multi-target fights is one of the biggest problems we have in the current tier. This change addresses that problem exactly.

For my numbers, as Survival, this looks to be about a 7% buff on single target, about a 10-15% buff in 2-target Cleave, and a humongous AE buff (where we were already incredibly good anyway).

It's not the answer from heaven for multi target fights. We still will not be anywhere near a lock moonkin or spriest. And ya it's nowhere near 7%.

[Tehterokkar]

Lets say you do like 80k dps with 490 gear, you would gain like 5600dps (7%)? I really doubt that. Simcraft shows ~800dps more for BM and ~1,5k dps more for SV which is much more realistic.

Since when has Simcraft been reliable?

[Deleted]

Lets say you do like 80k dps with 490 gear, you would gain like 5600dps (7%)? I really doubt that. Simcraft shows ~800dps more for BM and ~1,5k dps more for SV which is much more realistic.

Taking my last Imperial Vizier Zor'lok kill, my serpent sting did 7.2%, 1597019 damage, that is with the length of our kill = 4094.92 dps, if I now increase the amount of damage my serpent sting does by 100% I would now also gain 4092.92 more dps. And that was also with a uptime of 87.9%, which is quite bad.

If my math is off then forgive me, but I don't see how increasing a ability that does 7% of the hunters damage by 100% will make you gain any less than those 7%

[Woobels]

Do people actually know what the problems of our class are? Or do they just talk without thinking.

Our performance in multi-target fights is one of the biggest problems we have in the current tier. This change addresses that problem exactly.

For my numbers, as Survival, this looks to be about a 7% buff on single target, about a 10-15% buff in 2-target Cleave, and a humongous AE buff (where we were already incredibly good anyway).

Did you actually think before you randomly threw those numbers out there?

[Deleted]

Did you actually think before you randomly threw those numbers out there?

What? Serpent sting does roughly 7% of a SV's damage as it is now, if you increase that by 100% you gain, 7% damage in a single target fight. More Serpent stings on more targets = higher damage from it, and since it is the only thing we can use on more than one target without using readiness I would say it's a quite accurate number throwing.

[Aertea]

Did you actually think before you randomly threw those numbers out there?

I went by my own WoL from my raid last Tuesday. SrS was 8.2% of my overall damage on Vizier. 14% on Stone Guard.

I honestly think something is wrong with Simcraft. There is no way you could increase the Magical:Physical ratio for Survival and not have the value of mastery change.

---------- Post added 2012-12-01 at 01:14 PM ----------

It's not the answer from heaven for multi target fights. We still will not be anywhere near a lock moonkin or spriest. And ya it's nowhere near 7%.

I agree it's not going to make us compete with other multi-dot classes 100%, but it is at least an attempt to address our largest area of need.

Also, it is definitely near 7%. Look at some WoL. Simcraft isn't doing something right.

Top Surv Hunter on Vizier 25 Normal (there aren't many Heroic logs). SrS =7.7% of their overall damage pre hotfix.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/hx7s3...s=9747&e=10103

Total Damage: 25726388
SrS Damage: 1990271
Damage post hotfix would be: 27716659
% Increase: 7.7363017303478

Note: Log was dated 11-27, definitely pre-hotfix.

[Noctifer616]

I haven't tested simcraft myself, but according to the logs posted on the simulationcraft website, something is seriously wrong with the hunter simulations. Stampede only being used once (even though the fight is longer than 5 minutes), Readiness not used at all, and other things that simple don't make sense.