Should father have any say about abortion?

[Wells]

Most people in this thread have agreed that men should have a similiar time-frame (the time when women are legally able to abort) during which they can "abort".

Personally, on that, I'd be on that but with some sort of limit. A women's ability to abort is determined by her ability to get pregnant and recovering from the abortion. A man's would be solely on how many times he can put his dick in a woman and make a baby and doesn't carry the same emotional weight/ physical trauma.. but I suppose it's more fair. /shrug biology, whatcha gonna do?

Realize that trying to equalize powers in a situation where the parties are inherently unequal is a bad idea?

[iggie]

Most people in this thread have agreed that men should have a similiar time-frame (the time when women are legally able to abort) during which they can "abort".

Personally, on that, I'd be on that but with some sort of limit. A women's ability to abort is determined by her ability to get pregnant and recovering from the abortion. A man's would be solely on how many times he can put his dick in a woman and make a baby and doesn't carry the same emotional weight/ physical trauma.. but I suppose it's more fair. /shrug biology, whatcha gonna do?

To expand, a man's ability to stop pregnancy (without permanent damage) starts and ends with condoms while women have a large number of ways. How is a man supposed to know a woman is missing her birth control pills, or she got her IUD removed? Yet any pregnancy from that will be burdened on the man financially.

I wrap every time, always. If my partner gets pregnant should I be held responsible? I take all the non permanent methods available to men.

[skrump]

It's almost like loving parents don't want to get the best they can afford for their (especially when first) children.

Well in this case I highly doubt the father is a loving parent as he didn't want the child in the first place and most likely never developed any real connection to the kid.
As for the mother, simply put "live within your means" that does not include living out of the wallet of the father.

I mean honestly everytime I see a 6 month old kid wearing nike and $20+ shirts that will be in the trash can within a week I can't help but agree with the guy you have been arguing with this entire thread about suckerpunching pregnant women in the gut. (not really but you get the point)

I mean at the end of the day you chose to have the child and it is your own responsibility and honestly I think with the inception of abortion and the morning after pill their is no reason to hold the man accountable for the options the women failed to take advantage of as she decided to have the kid and carry the burden.

Sure you both screwed and conceived a baby, the women should have the final word on abortion and due to that the man deserves a legitimate way to do what is in his best interest as well be relinquishing all rights/responsibility of fatherhood, and just to keep it fair the time frame for doing so should be within the same timeframe of a women legally aborting the fetus simply because a mans decision to relinquish those rights could effect the final judgement of the womens decision to have the abortion.

[Vanyali]

Realize that trying to equalize powers in a situation where the parties are inherently unequal is a bad idea?

Mhmm. But people want equality, damnit!

don't hurt me wells <.<

[obdigore]

Do I have to make a sig out of the numerous times I've already said that I support giving men the option to opt out of parental responsibilities and rights?

Listen, you can't expect realistic and factual debates in a thread about virtual slavery, can you?

[Anakso]

If a women can chose to abort the baby or keep the baby, then the man should be able to chose whether to financially support it or not.

This I would actually support.
Something a man can sign that means it's like he had an abortion, the baby wasn't technically aborted but he has legally 'aborted' his responsibility to it.

I'm definitely against the idea of man having any legal say on weather or not a women gets an abortion though.

[Vanyali]

To expand, a man's ability to stop pregnancy (without permanent damage) starts and ends with condoms while women have a large number of ways. How is a man supposed to know a woman is missing her birth control pills, or she got her IUD removed? Yet any pregnancy from that will be burdened on the man financially.

I wrap every time, always. If my partner gets pregnant should I be held responsible? I take all the non permanent methods available to men.

If you're with a woman you can't trust to handle her BC properly/ get it removed without telling her, don't have sex with her? As well as that even if you're both guarded she can still get pregnant because shit happens.

[semaphore]

Well in this case I highly doubt the father is a loving parent as he didn't want the child in the first place and most likely never developed any real connection to the kid.

Doesn't remove his responsibilities.

As for the mother, simply put "live within your means" that does not include living out of the wallet of the father.

Yes $300 a month is such a terrible burden on a father with an average income. And yet a single mother is totally living off that.

[Deleted]

If u dont wanna be a dad there is condoms u can use and similar stuff. Its not 100% but still, shit can happen then u just have 2 sit down talk about it.
Tho i think the Woman in this case got the upper hand coz its her body etc.
Thats my view of it!

[Doktor Faustus]

O, brave new world!

[semaphore]

Listen, you can't expect realistic and factual debates in a thread about virtual slavery, can you?

But why not?
Though I guess a factual debate will involve people stop whining about child support payments as some sort of ruinous burden...

[Kisho]

As far as the abortion itself goes, I consider it fairly simple math.

The child belongs to both the father and mother. So they each have 1 stake in it. However, it is also the mother's body, which the father has no rights to control. So the mother has 2 stakes, whilst the father has 1.

So sure, he has a say in it, but ultimately the final decision is the mother's.

As for the other issue of the father being forced to pay financially? If we can create some sort of system whereby the father can 'opt out' of helping raise the child, lose all rights to the child but not have to help pay for it... Then great. Works for me.

[semaphore]

To be honest I always thought child support should be the government's responsibility. But probably not possible in a political climate against 47%ers.

O, brave new world!

Oh, very nice

[Deleted]

If you're with a woman you can't trust to handle her BC properly/ get it removed without telling her, don't have sex with her? As well as that even if you're both guarded she can still get pregnant because shit happens.

And if they're taking some medication that is reducing the effectiveness of the pill? Or if she's been sick and thus the effectivity was affected by that? If they're larger than the weight the dosage is intended for(It's mostly a "one-dosage for all sizes" when it comes to that as far as I know, leaving larger women at a disadvantage when it comes to protection efficiency), what then? It's gonna be diluted among those with a larger body, someone who weighs 50 kg and someone who weighs 100kg does not respond the same way to it.

[Deleted]

No, he should not. Why should he have any say in what a woman can do with her body? If in the future it would be possible for men to carry children as well then maybe he could request to carry the child but I don't think anyone should be able to force someone to go through pregnancy.

[Terridon]

Do I have to make a sig out of the numerous times I've already said that I support giving men the option to opt out of parental responsibilities and rights?

Why should we be able to that? We can avoid it for the most part if we want. Condoms got made, both to avoid that and other unwanted things :P
To let guys be able to opt out of it, just gives them less reason to use their brain before screwing one over.

[obdigore]

But why not?
Though I guess a factual debate will involve people stop whining about child support payments as some sort of ruinous burden...

Well it kind of was for my dad, but from what I understand the US legal system is getting better about it. Is it wrong that I'm fighting an urge to suggest you grab a pump and calm yourself down? :P

[SenSayNyu]

But why not?
Though I guess a factual debate will involve people stop whining about child support payments as some sort of ruinous burden...

In my country child support payments is 25% (sometimes more) from your income.

[Vanyali]

And if they're taking some medication that is reducing the effectiveness of the pill? Or if she's been sick and thus the effectivity was affected by that? If they're larger than the weight the dosage is intended for(It's mostly a "one-dosage for all sizes" when it comes to that as far as I know, leaving larger women at a disadvantage when it comes to protection efficiency), what then? It's gonna be diluted among those with a larger body, someone who weighs 50 kg and someone who weighs 100kg does not respond the same way to it.

If you're on BC, your doctor should know before you take medicine. YOU should know before you take medicine the ways it interacts with other medicine (yes, BC is a medicine). Hell, that applies to any medicine you take for anything ever.

AFAIK, common illness doesn't reduce BC effectivity.

Weight issues make it HARDER to get pregnant in most cases, even without BC.

[semaphore]

Why should we be able to that? We can avoid it for the most part if we want. Condoms got made, both to avoid that and other unwanted things :P
To let guys be able to opt out of it, just gives them less reason to use their brain before screwing one over.

Men who really wants to avoid supporting their offspring usually slacks off on child support anyway. Which happens disturbingly often as much as MRMs like to cry about being forced. I would rather the likely vulnerable young mother start her family with all the relevant facts, and not on wishful thinking or false promises.

Also there's lawful abandonment options available so I don't think this is that different.