Should father have any say about abortion?

[SpacedOut]

Ultimately I feel the decision should be the woman's to make. However, I think it would be a ridiculous farce for a woman to go and get an abortion without even consulting the father. A smart person would definitely consult their partner and make sure to at least talk about it. However, the woman has to carry the child, so in the end I don't think the father should be able to block the abortion.

[Mnevis]

He should get a chance to say his piece, but it's her body and her decision. If she doesn't want to have his child, but he thinks she does, or should, or doesn't care, that's a pretty bad basis for starting a family.

I don't think you're asking about the converse, but I don't think a guy should be able to force a woman to abort either. It does seem unfair that there isn't a 'this baby is her decision and I do X to legally absolve myself of my involvement' process, but hey, life's not fair.

[semaphore]

In my country child support payments is 25% (sometimes more) from your income.

American households with an average income of $26,000 before tax, spends $134,370 over 18 years of a child's life. That's $7,465 per year or 28% of their before tax income. Your country's formula sounds reasonable.

[skrump]

A man's would be solely on how many times he can put his dick in a woman and make a baby and doesn't carry the same emotional weight/ physical trauma.. but I suppose it's more fair. /shrug biology, whatcha gonna do?

That is not even remotely true, Men do indeed carry an emotional burden as you seem to forget it is a life we were involved in the creation of A child is our living legacy and by coming to the realization that we are not ready for such a responsibility (or at least not with the current partner) and acting to avoid it is not something decided easily, not to mention nobody wants to be labeled as a deadbeat dad.

I won't claim that men carry the same huge emotional burden women do but to say we carry no emotional burden is absurd. I mean even as a man who has had a Vasectomy I still want to eventually have offspring and be part of molding them into a responsible adult
(The Vasectomy just ensures it wont happen until I find a women who shares a good portion of my views on the best way to raise offspring into becoming a responsible adult)

[semaphore]

Well it kind of was for my dad, but from what I understand the US legal system is getting better about it. Is it wrong that I'm fighting an urge to suggest you grab a pump and calm yourself down? :P

You dirty little

But my left one (the one that put out 30mls) feels a bit tender today... Maybe I'll only play with the other one >_>

[Deleted]

If you're on BC, your doctor should know before you take medicine. YOU should know before you take medicine the ways it interacts with other medicine (yes, BC is a medicine). Hell, that applies to any medicine you take for anything ever.

I agree with that but there's times when doctors don't really check up how a certain medicine interacts with another medicine. It has happened to me in the past and it got me into a state of sleeping up to 18 hours if not more at times. Me not being too medically knowledgable just accept what the doctor say since he's the educated one, not me.

I've had a doctor tell me that local edemas was not part of the side-effects of a medicine I was taking and then when he checked it up it was a relatively common side-effect, nothing bad happening but my foot swelling up to like 2-3 times it's size rendering it somewhat hard to walk but it caused no long term problems.

AFAIK, common illness doesn't reduce BC effectivity.

Diarrhea or vomitting can reduce the absorption efficiency.

Weight issues make it HARDER to get pregnant in most cases, even without BC.

It's still a valid problem regardless. The dosage is not intended for people with larger bodies.

[Raelbo]

IMHO I find unbelieveably unfair that woman can have an abortion without the consent of the father (ignoring extreme cases like rape ofcourse).
But then again I'm not really for abortion at all so my opinion might not be the most objective one.
Women's excuse is that baby is part of their body and they can do what they want with it.

Thoughts?

Any potential father should discuss this issue before making a woman pregnant. If you don't like the answer the woman gives you, don't get her pregnant. If you don't know the answer, don't get her pregnant. And if you aren't prepared to face ALL the possible consequences of a pregnancy, you really shouldn't be having sex. And if you do go ahead and have sex, you have no one to blame when this kind of situation comes up, and crying about how unfair it all is is just crazy, because this is the result of a risk you took.

Pregnancy does not just happen by accident, even if it is sometimes unintended. It is the result of

That being said, if a couple have agreed before falling pregnant to go through with a pregnancy, and the woman then decides to change her mind half way through the process I think it is a different matter and should be dealt with on a case by case basis.

Certainly in some cases I believe the father should be allowed to have a say to save his unborn child, even though in most cases the final say should still rest with the mother. As a father, your real power lies in being able to choose who you sleep with. Use it, don't use, I don't care, but don't come crying when you failed to use it and the consequences catch up to you.

[Terridon]

Men who really wants to avoid supporting their offspring usually slacks off on child support anyway. Which happens disturbingly often as much as MRMs like to cry about being forced. I would rather the likely vulnerable young mother start her family with all the relevant facts, and not on wishful thinking or false promises.

Also there's lawful abandonment options available so I don't think this is that different.

True. Seen people it happened to. That being families that wanted the child originally, and then broke up. Then the father sometimes don't want to pay, because he got a new family and is fine abondoning his old kid(s).
Still shouldn't be able to opt out of it, just because "it's hard to make daddy pay". I'dd rather see them getting some more efficient means to get the money, that doesn't require years of work from the mothers side. It's not like kids are cheap, so it's not just about the father having problems paying, but also the mother, paying for what the kid needs.
Of course they shouldn't pay if they're too poor to actually pay anything though. We have a silly system here to make the kid believe the father supports the kids with money.
"The state" gives money to the father(if he's too poor to pay), and the father sends those money to the mother. Well.. sometimes he don't send those money, and she don't get it, while the father get some extra support for himself. Kinda silly. Think they changed the rules a year ago or so, to avoid that happening.

[obdigore]

You dirty little

But my left one (the one that put out 30mls) feels a bit tender today... Maybe I'll only play with the other one >_>

Do whatever feels right, brotato.

[Itisamuh]

Do I have to make a sig out of the numerous times I've already said that I support giving men the option to opt out of parental responsibilities and rights?

I must say, it's refreshing to see that we actually agree on something. I've wondered. ^ ^

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

"It's like you can't comprehend the idea of not attacking or controlling women."

I consider that a personal attack.

No shit, sherlock.

Yours is more blatant.

Precisely. Exactly this.

And yet, you argue that a man should have that ability.

I wasn't saying that the fetus has rights, I was saying that aborting the fetus against the will of one of the parents is absolutely emotionally devastating to the parent. When either parent is intending for the baby to be born, they see it as their future child, not a fetus. From their viewpoint, aborting said fetus is murder. From a legal standpoint abortion is obviously not considered murder, nor should it be. But destroying a fetus that at least one parent intends to grow into a child is beyond reprehensible, not for the fetus itself but for the devastation you are wreaking on the other parent.

Whatever emotional damage one parent has due to their irrational views is not the other parent's fault. Aborting a fetus that the father still wants might be unfair to the father, but the only other option is much more unfair to the mother.

If you'd paid any attention at all to my posts you would see that I do not have a problem with abortion in general. I am, in fact, an atheist, and I support abortion legality. The awful thing about a forced abortion isn't the abortion itself, it's the forced part. And it is awful for the father, too.

Who would be forcing the abortion if not the father in the discussion we have been having?

I missed this at first because you edited it in, now that I noticed it I wish I hadn't.

This is probably the most disgusting, reprehensible thing I have ever read on these forums. Put yourself in the father's shoes for just one damn moment. That is fucked up. I don't even know what to say. I'm done with this thread. You aren't the kind of person I will willingly communicate with any longer.

Asking others to put themselves into the position of somebody who is being irrational and having emotional problems due to that irrationality is pointless.

[Adamas102]

The answer to the question at hand is OF COURSE NOT! There's no place for a stale mate on a topic like this so yes, the woman's decision should trump on matters that concern her body (and no, shooting some sperm into a girl does not entitle you to 50% say). That being said, a man should be able to opt out in the case of an unplanned pregnancy where the woman chooses to keep it with the caveat that there still be enough time for the woman to get an abortion if she feels she would be unable to raise the child on her own.

-In the event of a pregnancy where the man wants to keep the child and the woman doesn't, her decision to get an abortion trumps. Guy should adopt or look for someone who actually wants to have children with him.

-In the event of a pregnancy where the man does not want a child and the woman does, then her decision trumps but she does need to be able to raise the child on her own. No child support if the father opts out as soon as the pregnancy is discovered.

Yes, this does have the potential for abuse where guys can go around claiming to be willing to raise a child just to avoid wearing a condom and then bailing in the event of an actual pregnancy. However, since the ultimate decision on whether or not to get an abortion would rest with the woman in every case, they still hold an advantage on that front. Additionally, if a woman was able to hide a pregnancy past the point when she could get an abortion (past the point where the man could opt out) there would be potential for abuse there as well.

In the end, the incentive would still be on people (both men AND women) being more responsible about choosing their sexual partners.

[Itisamuh]

The answer to the question at hand is OF COURSE NOT! There's no place for a stale mate on a topic like this so yes, the woman's decision should trump on matters that concern her body (and no, shooting some sperm into a girl does not entitle you to 50% say). That being said, a man should be able to opt out in the case of an unplanned pregnancy where the woman chooses to keep it with the caveat that there still be enough time for the woman to get an abortion if she feels she would be unable to raise the child on her own.

-In the event of a pregnancy where the man wants to keep the child and the woman doesn't, her decision to get an abortion trumps. Guy should adopt or look for someone who actually wants to have children with him.

-In the event of a pregnancy where the man does not want a child and the woman does, then her decision trumps but she does need to be able to raise the child on her own. No child support if the father opts out as soon as the pregnancy is discovered.

Yes, this does have the potential for abuse where guys can go around claiming to be willing to raise a child just to avoid wearing a condom and then bailing in the event of an actual pregnancy. However, since the ultimate decision on whether or not to get an abortion would rest with the woman in every case, they still hold an advantage on that front. Additionally, if a woman was able to hide a pregnancy past the point when she could get an abortion there would be potential for abuse on her end as well.

In the end, the incentive would still be on people (both men AND women) being more responsible about choosing their sexual partners.

Very well said.

[Deleted]

Ofcourse, aspecially if he is paying for it.

[semaphore]

True. Seen people it happened to. That being families that wanted the child originally, and then broke up. Then the father sometimes don't want to pay, because he got a new family and is fine abondoning his old kid(s).
Still shouldn't be able to opt out of it, just because "it's hard to make daddy pay". I'dd rather see them getting some more efficient means to get the money, that doesn't require years of work from the mothers side. It's not like kids are cheap, so it's not just about the father having problems paying, but also the mother, paying for what the kid needs.

Well true. I'm more thinking of something along the lines of a strictly enforced legal document while the mother have the option of abortion. I don't know about your country, but in the United States many child support payments are worked out by the parents themselves, and when payment doesn't come, often the mothers just sucked it up.

Of course they shouldn't pay if they're too poor to actually pay anything though. We have a silly system here to make the kid believe the father supports the kids with money.

I think that's mostly a cultural perception that's out of step with reality. I blame Two and a Half Men

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 09:14 AM ----------

Do whatever feels right, brotato.

Bad obdi, you'll get this thread locked too! /spank
(yes totally blaming you )

[obdigore]

Bad obdi, you'll get this thread locked too! /spank
(yes totally blaming you )

I don't get threads locked. I get banned. Huuuuuge difference.

[semaphore]

I must say, it's refreshing to see that we actually agree on something. I've wondered. ^ ^

I'm actually a pretty agreeable person...

[Djuntas]

Men shoulden't have any saying inn the cases of female "stuff". Obviously doctor's and the likes should not be part of that, they should be there to help and maybe inform.

We have a d... and they don't, fuss we will never truely understand what its like. Simple as that.

[Yogg-Saron, God of Death]

That's not a humble opinion, it's an arrogant, selfish, immoral opinion.

It's sort of disappointing that we live in times where people preach for equality and emancipation, yet the male shouldn't be able to give his thought on whether or not his potential offspring should be aborted. The double-edged blade of hypocrisy swings again!

And yeah, pregnancy is not a good time for a woman, I can not relate to that, but I can comprehend that. I'm also sure, that while it's not nearly the same, the male counterpart of the couple will also get some hefty verbal abuse during that time, which is not the woman's fault. (naturally)

But to have your potential child "executed" can be even worse.

[semaphore]

It's sort of disappointing that we live in times where people preach for equality and emancipation, yet the male shouldn't be able to give his thought on whether or not his potential offspring should be aborted. The double-edged blade of hypocrisy swings again!

No one said the father can't speak his thoughts. What Spectral said is that he has no right to actually control the mother's decision whatsoever.

Equality is being equal under equal circumstances. Being pregnant, is not an equal situation to having made somebody pregnant.