People who breaks promises.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

I explain everything in my new book "Why I Only Quest / Dungeon / Raid with Friends and Guildies" by Beastmaster.

As much as I would love to have faith in the community of old, when people helped others because they wanted to, when you could have great conversations in Trade without Trolls, and when giving someone your word meant something, these days don't exist for most players anymore. Most players are just in it for themselves. They are so used to their solo games, that a community based MMO is a foreign object. Sadly, it is the actions of these ridiculous and selfcentered players that keeps me from inviting or responding to strangers of my same level. I will still run lowbies through dungeons, or toss them some coin to help them out, but if you are 90, and you want a piece of a rare kill, you better be a RL friend or a guildy. Otherwise this bear is gonna solo it, loot it, and scalp it.

[Vladinator]

If I get the tag I usually invite but I set it to Master Looter to be safe, because you can't trust others that you randomly meet for a short moment.

Also he is farming a 2% drop, like farming rare mounts, can take anywhere between one kill to years of farming. :P

[FenrisUy]

Because it is a game, and ultimately it is a design flaw in the game, that it is WORSE to group up while for example fighting a rare. In my opinion, all 5 in the group (Or no matter how many was in it) should all get the invite.

Not a design flaw, you can set the loot to master looter, if you choose not too, it is your fault.

[Gilian]

It's the internet.

Also. But that's something you can't do anything about. Having some community and reputation on your realm makes some people think twice before ninjaing or being an asshole and they are much easier to avoid. LFD and LFR changed that. You can still avoid them by having either an immense blacklist or by ignoring everyone who is not in your guild or not your friend.

Same happens in real life. If there is no social control then you can do whatever you like. If I could teleport to a restaurant on the other side of the world dressed up as an orc piss on someones food and slap them in the face and then teleport out that would make this world not a better place.

[Maelle]

Best part of this thread is the people who think the community was so much better years ago.... because it really wasn't

Even on a small-pop server I was on in BC you had to be a pretty large d-bag to a lot of people and often to actually get noticed by the server community as a whole rather than just by one guild or one guy... if you just did random acts of dickishness, like ninjaing one item, you would be unlikely to notice any real adverse effects.

[Gilian]

Best part of this thread is the people who think the community was so much better years ago.... because it really wasn't

Even on a small-pop server I was on in BC you had to be a pretty large d-bag to a lot of people and often to actually get noticed by the server community as a whole rather than just by one guild or one guy... if you just did random acts of dickishness, like ninjaing one item, you would be unlikely to notice any real adverse effects.

Best part is that some people actually think it was just as bad years ago.

Like you did not notice it when you had to spam trade to find a group and most of the good players didn't want you because you are a d-bag on a low populated realm. Now there is no control at all. The size of the people you group up with is much bigger and most of them you will never see again. How can you think this does not affect the community in a bad way?

[yjmark]

OP - there are liars out there. What makes you think they will tell the truth in-game when they will blatantly lie in RL?

My advice - don't get jaded by it. A majority of people are actually reliable and honest.

[Maelle]

Best part is that some people actually think it was just as bad years ago.

Like you did not notice it when you had to spam trade to find a group and most of the good players didn't want you because you are a d-bag on a low populated realm. Now there is no control at all. The size of the people you group up with is much bigger and most of them you will never see again. How can you think this does not affect the community in a bad way?

Because even on a low pop server there was only ever one group looking for people, and everybody was friends, and everybody truly, truly cared that one time some dude said you did something in the realm forums or in trade and it ended up in a drama where everyone looked as stupid as each other... yes I imagine being a dick ocassionally was a death sentance for anyone who wanted to group up... except for the fact people were dickish and yet miraculously still found guilds and groups. Shocking!

[Seranthor]

That could be a reason, not to see people from other realms.. However, it's not an arguement for it NOT to be active.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 03:02 PM ----------

Post your proof, that it's not enabled..

My proof is, I daily see off-server toons in all Panda-zones..

CRZ is NOT enabled, however, you CAN group with real ID friends from other realms and either you will end up on their server or they'll end up on yours... but it is NOT CRZ.

[-Psypher-]

Anonymity and the lack of meaningful consequences lead people to do some really asinine things. Also, as has been mentioned - it's the Internet.

[PetersenIII]

Like I said example of sociopathy, and even can't understand why.

Infracted. Please do not insult other forum posters.

So, I don't particularly like Kevyne (in fact the only reason I knew he was infracted was because I saw he was banned looking at another thread where I facepalm at his stupidity), but seriously, you're going to infract him for this? I'm sorry someone got their knickers in a wad about being told the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopath

Read that and tell me that the situation described that started this isn't sociopathic behavior.

[Skippy88]

The way I see it is usually the person making the promise goes into the deal thinking nothing of value will drop but when something of value does drop they renege on the deal. You see this in real life too with the best example being lotteries and money. You make the deal of splitting winnings thinking at most you will win a $1000 but when $100 million drops that becomes something else entirely and you end up in court over it.

Best advice is to protect yourself as best you can with Master Looter or only group with people you truly trust.

[Deleted]

People don't care because they can act like jerks and get away with it.

Also, I think the guy who lead the group can make a ticket if the person said clearly he won't need on anything but the trinket. He can try anyway.

[namelessone]

My stance on it is that the lack of social structure (which the anonymity of cross-realm shenanigans brings) causes people to be assholes quicker due to no fear of any repercussions. This is an unfortunate side-effect, but the removal of cross-realm stuff will not magically fix this. It might eventually over the course of like, a year or two, but WoW would lose too many subscriptions over it to be deemed worth it.

Good community should not rely on fear of repercussions to begin with. And also, cross-realm solves a lot more problems than it creates. Sure, in one out of ten games I play I might encounter a really rude player or a ninja - but I can play 10 games in the same time span it would have taken me two before LFD. And 1 in 10 is really a worst case scenario, I am yet to encounter a single "bad apple" in MoP heroics.

If I were to choose between accessible content for EVERYONE and hour long queues just so that some servers might have some semblance of community based on fear of repercussions - I would obviously pick the former.

[Itisamuh]

Why does it being the internet make it okay to be an asshole? Whatever happened to just being a decent human being all around?

[namelessone]

Why does it being the internet make it okay to be an asshole? Whatever happened to just being a decent human being all around?

I'd go as far as to say that most people on the internet aren't assholes, there's just no way for you to notice them, while assholes have plenty of tools to make your life miserable.

[-Psypher-]

People don't care because they can act like jerks and get away with it.

Also, I think the guy who lead the group can make a ticket if the person said clearly he won't need on anything but the trinket. He can try anyway.

If an agreement was made via Blizzard chat (in any channel, including whispers), and that agreement was later broken, they CAN submit a ticket and they WILL remove the item from the ninja and credit it to the person who should have received it according to the agreement. Screenshots aren't needed, since they can simply look at the chat logs. This has happened to me before, and I got my ninjaed item in the mailbox a day or two later.

[Deleted]

[...]

My question is... How can people blatently just break their promise and log off without even a simple explaination? Don't they realise that the person they break the promise to feels really bad rest of the day because they have then wasted hours upon hours doing the same thing just to have it stolen right infront of their nose?

People commit what society sees as immoral (commit crimes, deception, confidence trick) because the risk/reward is worth it. Because they get away with it. I believe what you witnessed is more likely to occur on a high pop realm due to anonymity. In this case, the needer does not wish to spend the money on BMAH or does not have friend to invite them over. I wouldn't break my promise even though I really want that item. Why? Because I do this on my main, and my main has a name to keep high on the server. People know me. I also managed to spend a whopping 1337g (yes, literally) on a low pop realm to buy myself the invite. Since it is account-wise, I played brawler's guild on my main on the opposite faction. Granted, 1337g is harder to come by on the low pop realm, but it certainly saved me time. Also, security-wise, if there's 2 strangers who have a bond there's often a 3rd party involved who is trusted. For example, if you buy something from eBay and send it insured then the postal service will make sure the receiver signs for the package and also if it is lost it is insured (details on that vary tho) whereas if you send cheaper it "may or may not arrive". WoW does allow this framework: it allows one person the power to ML, it allows need before greed, and that is basically it. However a ML is in this case (small group, long time farming) not really appropriate.

[Orange Joe]

Because it is a game, and ultimately it is a design flaw in the game, that it is WORSE to group up while for example fighting a rare. In my opinion, all 5 in the group (Or no matter how many was in it) should all get the invite.

Stop blaming assholes being assholes on bad game design.


What design in real like keeps you from keeping your promises? nothing but you being an asshole (this is not directed at you just a general statment)

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 01:43 PM ----------

remember when we dident have LFD, LFR and so on? always had to pug via trade or freinds? remember if there wasa 1 ninja on the server, he was doomed? today, you can ninja whatever the f**ck you want, without anybody care -.-

This is not true. Even before LFR/LFD on my server Ninjas were still able to get into or form raids. The whole time they were being called out in raid and trade chat.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 01:44 PM ----------

With the new cross realm zones, isn't it possible that they could have been from a different server?

Last I heard CRZ is still not active in pandaria.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 01:48 PM ----------

Post your proof, that it's not enabled..

My proof is, I daily see off-server toons in all Panda-zones..

I never see anyone from another server


My proof > your proof.

[Chonar]

Good community should not rely on fear of repercussions to begin with.

And now you're treading into a sociology/psychology debate that has raged through the ages since the time of the great Greek thinkers.
I highly doubt either of us would find a conclusion on a videogame forum.