How is Guild Wars 2 PVP?

[Deleted]

well ill just add, although arena is my favourite thing in wow i am terrible at it, my friends dont play the right classes for us to play together and win and i dont have the gear, hence looking at GW2 solving these issues.

My concerns are boredom from repetition and that combat seems a bit weird / a lot different when i see vids of people flipping everywhere, it looks more like a 3rd person shooter...

[Valeron]

Yeah again you have to figure out if you like the combat, if you don't then you certainly won't like the pvp.

Are you just looking at it for strictly pvp? There are other pvp only games that are a bit cheaper to get into. Forge just came out and it is strictly arena pvp. I'm not trying to turn you away from GW2 but I think you do yourself a disservice if you only participate in just one aspect of the game.

[Atelniar]

well ill just add, although arena is my favourite thing in wow i am terrible at it, my friends dont play the right classes for us to play together and win and i dont have the gear, hence looking at GW2 solving these issues.

My concerns are boredom from repetition and that combat seems a bit weird / a lot different when i see vids of people flipping everywhere, it looks more like a 3rd person shooter...

Hm. The way combat flows depends on your builds. Range damage-dealing is available to most and such has great importance if you are able to take advantage of not being spotted while flanking an opponent. The ranged combat also has a lot more punch than it does in WoW, which can create that illusion. Remember that from a strategic standpoint one ranged weaponset and one melee weapon set are better than two ranged sets, unless your build is heavily focused on doing ranged damage instead of melee encounters. This is where your profession (class) and trait build (talents) come into play. AoE is also something that should be considered. Do I want to wield dual guns for single-damage output along with daggers for melee, or a shortbow for the AoE output? This depends entirely on your trait build.

When it comes to repetition there is a danger of it as in any MMO like this, with its PvP. But, GW2 has an advantage in that every weapon greatly changes your playstyle and the trait build can also enhance this (focusing on a single ability or weapon choice) or you can make a build that master several weapons and allow for alot of utility through boons, etc.

Seeing as GW2 has no sub it may be worth a shot, but I would advise you to take part in map exploration and World vs. World as well to get more enjoyment out of the game than just sPvP. There is, as Doozerjun mentions, cheaper options as well if PvP is your only focus.

[Deleted]

Yeah again you have to figure out if you like the combat, if you don't then you certainly won't like the pvp.

Are you just looking at it for strictly pvp? There are other pvp only games that are a bit cheaper to get into. Forge just came out and it is strictly arena pvp. I'm not trying to turn you away from GW2 but I think you do yourself a disservice if you only participate in just one aspect of the game.

i did look at forge but im guessing its going to be more of a passing title rather than a long term hard core game, id be happy to be proven wrong.

Im pretty close to ordering GW2 as i can always come back to it when more pvp functionality is patched in.

I would do some PVE i just dont like how time consuming and hardcore wow pve is. I need a pve levelled character for WvW anyway right?

Out of interest how much work is put in for the pvp cosmetics? in terms of unlocking them that is, is it months long of grinding for the cool looking stuff? or pretty quick? as i guess the cosmetics are what you aim for in pvp

Also can i literally play ANY class i want and not be at a disadvantage? I have 4 characters at 90 on wow but only 1 perhaps 2 are viable in arena currently...

---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 12:12 AM ----------

Hm. The way combat flows depends on your builds. Range damage-dealing is available to most and such has great importance if you are able to take advantage of not being spotted while flanking an opponent. The ranged combat also has a lot more punch than it does in WoW, which can create that illusion. Remember that from a strategic standpoint one ranged weaponset and one melee weapon set are better than two ranged sets, unless your build is heavily focused on doing ranged damage instead of melee encounters. This is where your profession (class) and trait build (talents) come into play. AoE is also something that should be considered. Do I want to wield dual guns for single-damage output along with daggers for melee, or a shortbow for the AoE output? This depends entirely on your trait build.

When it comes to repetition there is a danger of it as in any MMO like this, with its PvP. But, GW2 has an advantage in that every weapon greatly changes your playstyle and the trait build can also enhance this (focusing on a single ability or weapon choice) or you can make a build that master several weapons and allow for alot of utility through boons, etc.

thanks, i normally play warlock on wow so would like some sort of caster, or i also like rogue styles

Is there a database site of the best builds etc? im used to the wow armoury to see what top players are using since in wow theres generally a logically best setup, would be useful as a noob!

[Valeron]

Well for structured pvp you will have maxed out stats and abilities so there won't be a case of being behind the gear curve if that's what you are worried about. And since it takes about 5 minutes to get a character through the starting tutorial then you can use whatever class you wish for structured pvp. For structured pvp, any rewards you get is account bound by the way, and not character specific.

For WvW it's a bit different. Even though you are bumped up to level 80 you still won't have skills and traits unlocked which makes a huge difference. I mean you can contribute in other ways, especially in the zerg, but it is still unbalanced. However, you can level just in the WvW if you so desire.

[Atelniar]

i did look at forge but im guessing its going to be more of a passing title rather than a long term hard core game, id be happy to be proven wrong.

Im pretty close to ordering GW2 as i can always come back to it when more pvp functionality is patched in.

I would do some PVE i just dont like how time consuming and hardcore wow pve is. I need a pve levelled character for WvW anyway right?

Out of interest how much work is put in for the pvp cosmetics? in terms of unlocking them that is, is it months long of grinding for the cool looking stuff? or pretty quick? as i guess the cosmetics are what you aim for in pvp

Also can i literally play ANY class i want and not be at a disadvantage? I have 4 characters at 90 on wow but only 1 perhaps 2 are viable in arena currently...

---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 12:12 AM ----------



thanks, i normally play warlock on wow so would like some sort of caster, or i also like rogue styles

Is there a database site of the best builds etc? im used to the wow armoury to see what top players are using since in wow theres generally a logically best setup, would be useful as a noob!

First: yes, any class and any level in sPvP (note: the equivalent of BG's). You enter sPvP through the Heart of the Mists. In World vs. World you will be scaled up, but you lack the gear so you will be at a disadvantage there, fairly similar to how they made SW:TOR players scale in PvP at one point. Gear matters a lot in WvW, along with traits and skill points.

Now, the cosmetic rewards you get through sPvP will be based on rewards you get from ranking up, etc. They will be generated randomly, like a drop from a loot table. They only have scenic value, so it's not a big deal. This is also only useable in Heart of the Mists (PvP longue) and sPvP (the BG's). So in the actual solo world of PvE this content means nill and is not accessible.

As for a database with preferred builds. The thing is that the builds are so heavily based on the weapons and playstyle you pick, that you just have to try it out on your own. There are forums and build calculators for theory-crafting, but automatically finding an ultimate build is not as it is in WoW. I learned that myself at one point. I felt like a dumbass. It was not a bad build initially, but there were better options available for what I wanted to achieve. It took some time for me too see the potential in the trait tree, to be honest.

As for casters. Necromancers are similar to warlocks, in a way, but Mesmers also have a similar feeling with their illusions. The elementalist is a blend of a disc priest and a hard-hitting mage. I think Mesmers or Necromancers will be most familiar to you, and Mesmers are known for being a pain in PvP. I personally hate them.

[Deleted]

Well for structured pvp you will have maxed out stats and abilities so there won't be a case of being behind the gear curve if that's what you are worried about. And since it takes about 5 minutes to get a character through the starting tutorial then you can use whatever class you wish for structured pvp. For structured pvp, any rewards you get is account bound by the way, and not character specific.

For WvW it's a bit different. Even though you are bumped up to level 80 you still won't have skills and traits unlocked which makes a huge difference. I mean you can contribute in other ways, especially in the zerg, but it is still unbalanced. However, you can level just in the WvW if you so desire.

yea cool thats what i thought.

So how hard is it to unlock cosmetics? I hate looking like a default character!

And is there a site/database that shows the best specs to be using to help me out? Also is there a 'main eu pvp server' like there is in wow

[Zogarth]

I think you should just buy the game and see for yourself. Even if PvP is not really your cup of tea, you will most likely get as much fun out of all the other aspects of the game, as you would of any other major AAA release.

[Fencers]

and this is where you have lost all credibility with me concerning PvP and combat mechanics. lacks depth compared to the meta in WoW? which is simple as all hell. there is no depth to a game governed by false dependencies and lack of comp and spec variation which is precisely what trinity based games give you. there needs to be a dps, a healer and some form of control but in WoW it is given to specific classes to fill specific roles. this epitomizes a lack of strategic depth, not to mention the lack of in-game counter play as few classes can res mid-fight or heal/support teammates. when describing WoW PvP do not confuse "depth" with being "convoluted", even Blizz have seen it and decided to reduce the fluff with this recent expansion.

That wasn't what I was talking about at all. My post was PVP neutral actually. I even said it.

What I was talking about is strategic depth- of which GW2 is far more shallow and has objectively fewer considerations. There is little meta thought to GW2. Everything is straight forward as the gameplay systems are not a real function of reaction. Twitch reaction being the greater emphasis in GW2 than in stat driven games.

By nature of design you only think about one of those in a higher sense.

Tactically, GW2 probably does have more depth than Warcraft. In a higher design sense? Not at all. Game design is not opinion.

Also simple systems are not inherently a negative. One of the greatest [& purest] PVP video games created is Pong. Complex game?

WoW is a PvE game with some PvP added, not the same as GW2 which is has a completely separate PvP game from PvE, balanced individually.

Agreed. Not sure why it is relevant. But agreed all the same.

As far as the OP and wanting opinions what good are those opinions when they are not based on any facts? if people say i do not like the gameplay in GW2 because it's not as fun and WoW's or w/e that's more than fine, but to base it on an incorrect observation or ignorance which we can actually check is just stupid.

...and if someone incorrectly states an aspect of design I am more than willing to call them out on it.

Lots of folks gave valid opinions on the pros/cons of the PVP aspects in GW2.

To be blunt, Fencers, I think your meta consideration was somewhat lacking. Especially if you feel that the strategic value of the meta-game is determined by the number of "PvP-dedicated" bullshit, as you like to say, stats and not the level at which you can customise your personal performance (where WoW scores poorly compared to GW2). I do not disagree that WoW stands out as a better alternative to a certain type of player though, for now. Calling GW2 simple on a metagame-basis is stretching it for me as it is a fine example of how metagaming should be done without resorting too much to rock, paper and siccors as WoW do.

See above.

I was not talking about the meta game in the sense of strictly PVP. It is a matter of strategic depth in the base gameplay models. GW2 is not at the level of Warcraft as a matter design. It is more reactive based and less dependent on extrinsic calculations.

If I miss in GW2, I missed because my judgement was poor in a given instance or I was out played. There is no higher consideration of my to-hit stat, to dodge, to reduce crits, etc.

Yes, GW2 is more simple, straight forward in meta play consideration. There is less to consider and what all choices are more straight forward.

[Odeezee]

everyone worried or serious about GW2 PvP needs to watch this video. it is very informative and lays out the framework for the future of GW2 PvP both structured and some WvW. it's about an hour but it's well worth the watch if PvP is your thing. it's with one of the sPvP dev leads from ArenaNet Johnathan Sharp.

[Atelniar]

That wasn't what I was talking about at all. My post was PVP neutral actually. I even said it.

What I was talking about is strategic depth- of which GW2 is far more shallow and has objectively fewer considerations. There is little meta thought to GW2. Everything is straight forward as the gameplay systems are not a real function of reaction. Twitch reaction being the greater emphasis in GW2 than in stat driven games.

By nature of design you only think about one of those in a higher sense.

Tactically, GW2 probably does have more depth than Warcraft. In a higher design sense? Not at all. Game design is not opinion.

Also simple systems are not inherently a negative. One of the greatest [& purest] PVP video games created is Pong. Complex game?

Agreed. Not sure why it is relevant. But agreed all the same.

...and if someone incorrectly states an aspect of design I am more than willing to call them out on it.

Lots of folks gave valid opinions on the pros/cons of the PVP aspects in GW2.


See above.

I was not talking about the meta game in the sense of strictly PVP. It is a matter of strategic depth in the base gameplay models. GW2 is not at the level of Warcraft as a matter design. It is more reactive based and less dependent on extrinsic calculations.

If I miss in GW2, I missed because my judgement was poor in a given instance or I was out played. There is no higher consideration of my to-hit stat, to dodge, to reduce crits, etc.

Yes, GW2 is more simple, straight forward in meta play consideration. There is less to consider and what all choices are more straight forward.

The strategic depth of PvE is of no interest to this debate, Fencers. The topic is PvP. And the strategic depth of what you mentioned compared to the choices given in GW2, PvP-wise, is the same as that of a puddle. Please admit that random stats do not make for a deeper strategic metagame in PvP. It's debatable in PvE, but it is by no means a given fact. You also completely neglect to argue how the stats are superiour in WoW. WoW's metagame is not that complex, it has some merit, but it is entirely gear dependant and your opinion remains a worthless one when you make no attempt to compare the two stat-systems for the sake of your argument (as far as I can see, given that I have not read the entire thread). A complex metagame would offer more than one optimal playstyle and different ways to approach your goal. In my mind GW2 does this better. I could also argue that the depth in WoW's stat system is simply an illusion, as long as there's an optimal tier of gear out there which would best any other choice.

Ultimately, the stats in WoW offer little depth and function more as a restriction upon what content you may experience in the same way an xp-bar does. The difference? With xp you gain levels, and talent/trait points. These give meaningful choices. Nothing ever changes in the stat department, though, unless there is a diversity great enough to support builds which rely on completely different stats. Which GW2 does, where WoW does not. In WoW's case the depth in stats as a metagame has been decreasing over the years, from my point of view at least.

Our interest here, Fencers, is the PvP-portion of the game. Where my argument stands strongly, independant of how stats affect PvE.

[Deleted]

everyone worried or serious about GW2 PvP needs to watch this video. it is very informative and lays out the framework for the future of GW2 PvP both structured and some WvW. it's about an hour but it's well worth the watch if PvP is your thing. it's with one of the sPvP dev leads from ArenaNet Johnathan Sharp.

ill watch this before buying, but what ive learned from WoW and other MMO's is devs are quick to say what they will do and slow to implement.

[Atelniar]

ill watch this before buying, but what ive learned from WoW and other MMO's is devs are quick to say what they will do and slow to implement.

That they are, indeed. Make your decision based on here and now, that is best. The question here is if you feel a one-time purchase is good enough value for money compared to other options. There are other PvP-oriented games out there that may be an alternative. Forge has been mentioned.

[Deleted]

GW2:
No duels
No arenas
In BG, you need at last 5+ people to capture something (In WoW for example, if you are extremely good, you can solo WSG).

Everything else is ok.

[LolretKJ]

If you ever played Warhammer Online, it's very close to the PvP from that game.

[Deleted]

If you ever played Warhammer Online, it's very close to the PvP from that game.

Never played it.

[LolretKJ]

Never played it.

Heavily objective and team fight based. You fight over control points and battle for various resources eventually leading up to an assault on a major castle. The realm with the best teamwork and coordination usually dominates at RvR.

There are no brackets, you get bumped up to max level when you enter RvR.

As far as the tournaments go I didn't really play them much as I wasn't very good, and got stomped a lot by better players.

Overall, I really enjoy the PvP in GW2, I play the game fairly casually and log on maybe 1-3 times a week to do some RvR with friends.

I'd say it's highly worth the buy.

Plus, there's no sub. I play it when I want to play it, and I don't when I don't. No subscription or anything to worry about.

[Fencers]

Our interest here, Fencers, is the PvP-portion of the game.

Very True. The error was mine for speaking so generally about the gameplay systems.

However, I do stand by my statement that the basic model does not change on game mode. Stats effect Guild Wars 2 combat to a very small degree. Even then linearly.

The game is predicated on twitch action. Not strategic consideration.

[Atelniar]

Very True. The error was mine for speaking so generally about the gameplay systems.

However, I do stand by my statement that the basic model does not change on game mode. Stats effect Guild Wars 2 combat to a very small degree. Even then linearly.

The game is predicated on twitch action. Not strategic consideration.

Yet, the manner in which you optimise your character through the open trait builds and weapon choices (enhanced by what kind of stats you want) greatly determine how you approach PvP combat in GW2, with that as my argument I do believe it does offer some strategic consideration. Depending on if you want range viability, melee focus, etc. Therefore, I think you are somewhat blunt and miss your target with this statement. RNG stats such as dodge offer very little depth (as you naturally want the stat if you can have it, it is not a choice), hence it is no great loss to "strategic" elements of PvP.

[Deleted]

i went ahead and bought the game guys. im playing a thief, though I have no idea about how builds and gear work yet.

Whats the quickest route to some cool looking gear? I hate looking default. Also, best spec for a noob thief?

Cheers!