GC Discussing Stealth

[Lemons]

GC has done a couple tweets about stealth:

As a rouge i have problems getting a clean opner in arena and duel because of the amount of aoe effects in the game. toughts?

TBH, it kind of bugs me personally that AEs are so efficient at breaking stealth. Would be a huge change to revert though.

Do you think abilities such as Destro Rain of Fire or Halo should break Rogue's stealth? And if so why? It's too easy to break

I would love to see only Flare and a few others break stealth, but that's a potentially destabilizing change.

I find myself liking this idea (obviously...). I haven't played any pvp this expansion, so I really have no idea how bad it is right now compared to previous seasons, but back then it seemed a bit too easy to break stealth. A lot of classes have AE spells baked into their single target rotations and end up breaking stealth by accident.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Is it too easy to break stealth? Do AEs need a bit of a nerf? Or would cutting down stealth breaking AEs to Flare and a few others make getting an opener too faceroll?

[Koji2k11]

there were times where rogues had the best stealth ingame nowdays rogues can get out of stealth by someone coughing 50 yards away from you

[Gamez]

there were times where rogues had the best stealth ingame nowdays rogues can get out of stealth by someone coughing 50 yards away from you

u mean the opposite right ?

Rogues shouldnt even complain with the failproof vanish cata brought.
U want to be a rogue ? a stealthy assasin ? play like one, hugging ur target while hes aoeing and never being brought out of stealth just destroys the purpose of stealth.

[Koji2k11]

u mean the opposite right ?

Rogues shouldnt even complain with the failproof vanish cata brought.
U want to be a rogue ? a stealthy assasin ? play like one, hugging ur target while hes aoeing and never being brought out of stealth just destroys the purpose of stealth.

read.understand.try again

[Vouksh89]

Idea I think would work: Ability, 45s-1m cd, Costs no energy, Area of Effect abilities have a 90% chance to miss you. Doesn't break stealth. Lasts 15s.

only 90%, so there is a chance that you can be found, but most of the time you can get the opener off. A decent cooldown, so you have to make the decision to go for the opener, or risk it. Maybe have it share/put CoS on cooldown for a period to balance it.

[Lemons]

Idea I think would work: Ability, 45s-1m cd, Costs no energy, Area of Effect abilities have a 90% chance to miss you. Doesn't break stealth. Lasts 15s.

It would be awesome if they changed Shadow Walk to work like that.

[Aceveda]

AoE's like Flare & Piercing howl should break stealth, however crazy AoE's like Rain of fire which isn't even channeled & can be cast everywhere+ 500% aoe talent & halo should not break stealth.

[Holofernes]

stealth should be removed.
it is an unfair advantage in pvp, and has no sense in pve. I have no clue why hunters, rogues, mages all got stealth nowadays. its just retared. and now u ask for beeing perma stealth without getting knocked out if u run into a clearly visible area effect?

Thats like beeing able to build dts and there is no detection in game.

Nowadays rogues can even vanish with dots up and still become invisible and reopen, an ability wich only skillful rogues were able to pull of in tbc, and since wotlk, every retard can do it. They can spam silences in a opener all day long, casters are prone to do nothing for the first 10 seconds, if a rogue opens on them.

Hunters mark doesnt dissalow restealth any more. Dots are ignored. it still is a Rootbreaker.
So many retarded buffs to stealth, so that even the last rogue will have their failsafe reset ability if one gank didnt work out well..

Most funny are the guys who whine about rogues bad status in arenas. I bet they have never fought against the skillfull ones this season.

[Verain]

I was discussing the possibility of shadow walk doing this yesterday, but ultimately shadow walk is a cool ability for the game that used to exist- back when we would play metastealth games and prevanish. It's also doing this job well in TOR, where both melee stealth guys get this trick with the same cooldown and duration (four total classes, but it's two mirror classes).

I agree with GC that it could be disruptive to make aoes just not break stealth. But at the same time, letting room sweeping instant effects do this is terrible, terrible, bullshit.

Yvaelle's suggestion was simply that the rogue have to take some minimum percent of his life in damage for it to break. Another possibility is for rogues to have a shield move similar to power word shield that absorbs some amount of damage and can be cast in stealth.

However, shadow walk simply saying "for the duration, damage does not remove you from stealth" would be fine, given what aoe cheese has become in the game.

Warlocks and Halo are a real issue. They should not do what they do to rogues, simple as pie.

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 12:46 AM ----------

stealth should be removed.

Lol, what a winner you are.

it is an unfair advantage in pvp

yup

and now u ask for beeing perma stealth without getting knocked out if u run into a clearly visible area effect?

So you can dodge bullets IRL because they are clearly visible right?

If you haven't noticed, the effect is instant. You can't dodge them, and in some cases they don't even have a cooldown. The warlock aoe can sweep essentially an entire arena- it can certainly keep a rogue far away from his allies, and in some cases your best bet is to simply mount up because stealth simply isn't against entire classes. It's retarded, and needs fixed. I'm very glad GC recognizes this. Now we need to get him on board with "hunters need worse stealth than rogues', and we might actually have a class again in time for 5.3.

Most funny are the guys who whine about rogues bad status in arenas. I bet they have never fought against the skillfull ones this season.

Well, given rogue rep, how could they? By the standards of any class but monks, there's essentially no rogues to fight against, and monks are brand new and don't have that many 90 mains yet.

Rogues are bad. Numbers say so. If you argue with that, you are just wrong. Think back to last season, with warriors underpowered, ok? Rogues now are around 6-10 times worse than warriors then.

[Lemons]

Nowadays rogues can even vanish with dots up and still become invisible and reopen, an ability wich only skillful rogues were able to pull of in tbc

The thing is in BC there were a lot less DoTs in the game, in fact there were classes/specs that didn't have a single DoT. So when you had one or two dots ticking on you it was entirely possible to time your vanish between the ticks. Nowadays it's a lot harder. There's simply MOAR DOTS, and most tick faster than they did back then. You'd almost never get to reopen in today's climate without that three second immunity. I don't care what your skill level is.

The more you know!

[darkwarrior42]

Why not just have damage stack up a debuff of some sort, and once you've taken too much damage stealth breaks... then have a few specific abilities that break it instantly, like flare? That way things like Rain of Fire aren't an auto-break for stealth, but you still can't just ignore them completely and be assured your stealth will remain intact.

[Verain]

Yea, I mentioned that above. Having to take a percent of your life in damage would be the right way to do this I think. I think the goal is for a Halo to not knock you out, so mostly just balance around that- everything else does less damage unless you stand in it and bathe in fire. It doesn't help that the animation on rain of fire is horrible to avoid- you basically need to watch the fire for a bit to see what the extent is. And of course the first tick is instant anyway, so it doesn't even matter.

[Cirque]

u mean the opposite right ?

Rogues shouldnt even complain with the failproof vanish cata brought.
U want to be a rogue ? a stealthy assasin ? play like one, hugging ur target while hes aoeing and never being brought out of stealth just destroys the purpose of stealth.

Failproof? Try vanishing when there's a hunter or warlock zoo on you.

I don't have a problem with halo and similar aoe. A rogue who gets unstealthed by that kinda deserves it. I have a problem with hellfire, because that's impossible to bypass. I have a problem with Howling Blast in battlegrounds, too.

I'm okay ish with Death n Decay and similar ground effects to break stealth, but not ad-infinitum, where an arena match starts by the opposite team standing in their ground AoE and us dancing around it trying to get a clean opener. That's not fun.

[Juicebox]

I don't see why Halo is such a big concern.
The ability doesn't have that big range and it's on a 45 second cooldown.
For a Priest to get you out of stealth with it he must either be lucky or you have to have been unstealthed before it's used.

I do understand Rain of Fire though, that's not balanced towards you, at all.

[Deleted]

I don't see why Halo is such a big concern.
The ability doesn't have that big range and it's on a 45 second cooldown.
For a Priest to get you out of stealth with it he must either be lucky or you have to have been unstealthed before it's used.

I do understand Rain of Fire though, that's not balanced towards you, at all.

The whole last tier of priest talents is rubbish in pvp except for Halo, and for that purpous only, breaking/preventing stealth. If it's taken away then that tier is pretty pointless in pvp.

I don't like that so many classes have invisibility. Rogues need it since they are melee, but i dont think hunters or mages should have it at all. Priest stealth is questionable, since its only 6 sec but really best is to remove that and displacer beast aswell or at least being able to use it while silenced. The only classes that should have it should be rogue and druid, and druids version being a shittier version, so that a rogue would always overcome a druid.

If cat was identical to rogue it would be unfair they get the additional normal druid style spells aswell, Ive always wanted them to be sort of a gimped rogue, lacking lots of its abilities but making up for it by having druid spells.

Now apparently Halo doesnt break hunter stealth either.... Which pisses me off beyond anything.

I don't like AOE that is 100% uptime that you can have around yourself and prevent rogues from jumping you. There should be _some_ spells to pop the rogue out by being skilled or lucky, such as halo and flare, but they shouldnt be spammable and be around you constantly preventing an opening...

It's an added skillfactor there, one game i got the rogue out of stealth twice with halo and fear. I should be able to do that by outplaying the rogue, but it shouldnt be like the rogue never has a chance.

[Verain]

Halo seriously doesn't break Camo? What?

[rogueMatthias]

Make ShadowWalk make you immune from AOE damage for it's duration? Guess it's only useable while stealth so wouldn't be too op.

[Verain]

It wouldn't (and shouldn't) be immunity. It just needs to prevent stealth from breaking.

[Lemons]

I don't see why Halo is such a big concern.
The ability doesn't have that big range and it's on a 45 second cooldown.

What would you consider a "big range"? Most AoE abilities similar to Halo, those that radiate from the player like Arcane Explosion or Fan of Knives, have a range of 10 yards...so 30 yards is pretty #$@%ing huge by comparison. In fact it's probably the the largest AoE in the game.

[gerni]

The thing is in BC there were a lot less DoTs in the game, in fact there were classes/specs that didn't have a single DoT. So when you had one or two dots ticking on you it was entirely possible to time your vanish between the ticks. Nowadays it's a lot harder. There's simply MOAR DOTS, and most tick faster than they did back then. You'd almost never get to reopen in today's climate without that three second immunity. I don't care what your skill level is.

The more you know!

This is the unfortunate truth. The game has evolved beyond the rogue "design". Rogues are the last class to receive an overhaul and that is undeniable. As far as where we will go from now? I still like the combo point system, however, I do say it could use a different approach.