90 Talents

[Ticj]

Does anyone else have a very severe problem with them? Each one seems to make me suffer in their own way.

[Deleted]

There are tons of guides out there telling you what the optimal talents are... Invocation is the way to go in most situations.

[Ticj]

I know that, but compared to other classes the mage talents do kind of suck. They all require you to do things that limit your dps drastically, like stand still for 8 seconds to get a buff and refill mana. That isn't a good thing, it's just another obstacle.

[Imnick]

There are tons of guides out there telling you what the optimal talents are... Invocation is the way to go in most situations.

...Unless you're Arcane, in which case substitute "Rune of Power" for "Invocation".
And no. It took me approximately one raid to figure out how to use them.
I still think they can be better designed (remove the mana influence) and have failed in their intent if we can answer a question with "pick x 90% of the time" but they are not hard to use and it isn't really that difficult to keep the buff up for the entire encounter.

They are supposed to make you "suffer" in that they are meant to limit your ability to DPS on the run. That an ability has drawbacks is not bad design, it is the opposite.

[Deleted]

Well, whoever designed the L90 talents was not a friend of mages. We have the only talent tier that ties a fricking boulder to your ankles, that gets stuck on every raid encounter there is. And all the benefits those talents give, other classes get for free.

[Playintrafic]

Or you can be a DK and only 2/3 talents are useful in PVE and both are better for tanking, and sometimes neither have good usage for boss fights.

[Rogge]

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 12:45 AM ----------

Or you can be a DK and only 2/3 talents are useful in PVE and both are better for tanking, and sometimes neither have good usage for boss fights.

If the damage remained the same, I'd be thrilled to see the 90 talents thrown out the window and replaced with utility stuff useless for pve. Bring it on!

[Deleted]

The problem with our 90 talents are that they aren't really friendly in terms of min/maxing compared to other classes 90 talents.

Rune of Power - You have to replace it everytime you have to move, and any damage you do on the move is basically doing less damage.

Invocation - More "friendly" on the movement because its a buff on you but still, if you gotta move during your evocation channel you still have to dps for maybe 5-6 seconds before evocate comes off CD and then channel for another 6 so thats 12 seconds you do less dmg than optimal.

Incanter's Ward - Very lackluster. Only works good on encounters where its constant damage or that you can get it to proc the second you use the ability (I.E Will of the Emperor Heroic). But the problem with this ability is that it provides the lowest DPS increase by a mile compared to the other talents, myself lose around 13k DPS when simming it by using it on CD and get it procced instantly.

[Rogge]

Also:

Invocation works for Arcane, but feels too maintenancy for others. IW is a bigger topic.
/Ghostcrawler

Anyhow care to explain how arcane plays with invocation? I haven't a clue to be honest. Cata-style burnphases nonstop?

[Ticj]

I completely agree detached, the talents just limit your dps, and are not friendly at all, while the other classes get these nice abilities that only help them, with no consequences.

[Deleted]

Well, whoever designed the L90 talents was not a friend of mages. We have the only talent tier that ties a fricking boulder to your ankles, that gets stuck on every raid encounter there is. And all the benefits those talents give, other classes get for free.

Yet, despite the 90 talents mages are still dominating DPS meters?
The talents (Invocation in particular) can be frustrating to manage but they require you to actually think about what you're doing rather than mindlessly spamming your rotation.

These threads have been around since launch, if people can't get used to the talents re-roll; once you're used to them it's honestly fine.

[Deleted]

Yet, despite the 90 talents mages are still dominating DPS meters?
The talents (Invocation in particular) can be frustrating to manage but they require you to actually think about what you're doing rather than mindlessly spamming your rotation.

These threads have been around since launch, if people can't get used to the talents re-roll; once you're used to them it's honestly fine.

They aren't bad they are just so damn boring who wants to stand still channeling evocation for 5 sec during a boss fight.

[Deleted]

They aren't bad they are just so damn boring who wants to stand still channeling evocation for 5 sec every 40 seconds during a boss fight.

Fixed

And I agree with you, I don't like it either. That's why I'm currently rolling RoP or Incanter's Ward, but again; the talents were designed more as mana-management ones which give you the benefit of damage buffs (which our damage is still balanced around, mind you) for those who are decent at keeping track of buffs. It's basically trying to raise the skillcap of the class slightly, which I think it does quite well.

[Seadog]

So .. you get a talent that gives you mana back ...... buffs your damage ... you complain cause you got to stand still for a few seconds ?
Damn ... id make it passive ... more dmg to mages more mana regen for free .. that seems right ...
Take a look at dk 90 talents and GL using them on bosses ... yet .... you are the ones to complain ..

[Kajk67rine]

I haven't a clue to be honest.

[Rogge]

So .. you get a talent that gives you mana back ...... buffs your damage ... you complain cause you got to stand still for a few seconds ?
Damn ... id make it passive ... more dmg to mages more mana regen for free .. that seems right ...
Take a look at dk 90 talents and GL using them on bosses ... yet .... you are the ones to complain ..

Dude, the damage from the talents are already calculated into mage damage. You're expected to have them up to do your damage. It's not "free damage".

And as for mana. Mana might as well be removed as a resource from all dps casters (except arcane mages due to mastery). No other dps caster give a damn about mana anymore.

If dk's got the same treatment as mages it would mean getting -15% damage on your abilities, and then have the now supposedly boring talents replaced with others meaning you have to channel for 6 seconds every 45, or stand in a tiny spot all the time, and what you'd get for that is you get your 15% damage back. Can you with a straight face claim that you, or any other dk, would like it? Seriously, think it through. It sucks, and unless you're hellbent on trolling, you can figure it out too.

[Deleted]

On top of these talents absolutely BORING as hell. One new spell, which requieres a ground texture which looks like crap and 2 resused spells (say hello evocation and mana shield) are just not enough for this class. They could have developed such nice new spells for this class and did the most mindless boring spell doover including DMG buffs for each spell that are mandatory to keep up in DPS.

Sorry, as a game designer working for another big computer game developer this is just utter and plain lazyness at its finest. Every 16 year old kid with the knowledge of basic programming could have designed and implemented this in less than a couple of hours work.

But HEYYYY! Its just the lvl 90 mage talents. Who gives a shit.

[Ticj]

Glad people agree with me, was hoping to not be the only one a little annoyed by this.

[Deleted]

well yeah dps wise level 90 talents or ok but when it comes to gameplay and fun .. meh just meh. i already went trough trouble and was given permission to reroll a DK. after couple month of raiding in MoP with my mage i decided that i had enough of these lvl 90 talents and i will gladly have just some utility talents at lvl 90 instead of maintenance buffs

[NotCunha]

So .. you get a talent that gives you mana back ...... buffs your damage ... you complain cause you got to stand still for a few seconds ?
Damn ... id make it passive ... more dmg to mages more mana regen for free .. that seems right ...
Take a look at dk 90 talents and GL using them on bosses ... yet .... you are the ones to complain ..

If you're not a mage, nor have anything constructive to say don't come to the mage section just to be a dick please.

Now on-topic: I agree, our 90 talents just don't feel fun,nor mesh well with Frost and Fire's playstyle . But considering the blue post (which Rogge quoted) i wouldn't be too worried tbh