WTF I just did in dalaran

[kayoticwrath]

Dalaran quest line? Sorry I have been living under a rock, how do i start this chain?

[eillas]

Isn't theramore vengance for Camp Tuaranjo. I mean I know barrens quests have the guy who ordered the attack hung up but think about it. The news has to follow the chain of command to get to Garrosh so it would come kinda late and no doubt he would use it as an excuse to go apeshit. I mean Tuaanjo wasnt military and technically Theramore isle wasnt a legitimate target either. Kinda like Garrosh was upping the ante.

Lol funny so much wrong info

[Xothic]

Lol funny so much wrong info

His opinion that Theramore was revenge for CTaur is 'wrong'? Sorry mate, thats not how opinions work.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Theramore wasn't really anything related to Camp Taurajo. If anything it was so he could get a stronger hold on Kalimdor and...extinquish the Night Elves. Garrosh didn't seem really all that phased by Taurajo

His opinion that Theramore was revenge for CTaur is 'wrong'? Sorry mate, thats not how opinions work.

Opinions can be wrong...we have to respect it. Really what he said is far from the truth.

[rowaasr13]

Funny how Jaina goes on a Purge, but had walked away from Arthas moments before he did his own.

I love how you compare "kill 'em all" and "surrender or GTFO" like it is exactly same thing.

[TheDangerZone]

I disagree but hey...personal attacks here. Alliance has always stayed lawful good terms. Not sure why you're raging so much.

Urgh, the lawful good thing. THE LAWFUL GOOD THING. Well, that to me is just wildly unrealistic and I'm glad that we are getting beige honesty, the alliance as a lawful goodorganization cannot exist in azeroth, this is not MLP. This is not a jab against the MLP fandom, i'm pointing out at the difference in settings, and warcraft is decidedly morally ambiguous even when they try to paint the alliance as morally sounder (and I'm okay with that) I'm just so tired of people trying to see horde v/s alliance as a white and black issue, it makes me think they just don't get the existence of moral dilemma or compromising. And again, I accept that there are narratives where absolute good exists (I love me some fluff) but lawful good should be shot in the face, cause there's either a misconception that lawful is good by default, or lawful is never explored as evil, and what up with that? If you give me lawful, at least give me evil lawful or neutral lawful.

Lawful good is boring as fuck.

[Xothic]

Opinions can be wrong...we have to respect it. Really what he said is far from the truth.

How exactly is it wrong? While I don't believe it, I really don't think its a stretch to claim that Theramore was, in some respects, a revenge attack for Taurajo. At the very least I could see it being used as a justification from some of the more pacifistic leaders of the Horde. (I really don't see Garosh needing to justify an attack on the Alliance at all tbh.)

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Urgh, the lawful good thing. THE LAWFUL GOOD THING. Well, that to me is just wildly unrealistic and I'm glad that we are getting beige honesty, the alliance as a lawful goodorganization cannot exist in azeroth, this is not MLP. This is not a jab against the MLP fandom, i'm pointing out at the difference in settings, and warcraft is decidedly morally ambiguous even when they try to paint the alliance as morally sounder (and I'm okay with that) I'm just so tired of people trying to see horde v/s alliance as a white and black issue, it makes me think they just don't get the existence of moral dilemma or compromising. And again, I accept that there are narratives where absolute good exists (I love me some fluff) but lawful good should be shot in the face, cause there's either a misconception that lawful is good by default, or lawful is never explored as evil, and what up with that? If you give me lawful, at least give me evil lawful or neutral lawful.

Lawful good is boring as fuck.

The Alliance has never been evil, to you it's boring as *fuck*. You're reaching there, you can still make things *interesting* without them going lawful evil or chaotic evil or whatever. Look Lawful good Alliance CAN EXIST on Azeroth. You are just acting obstinate.

How exactly is it wrong? While I don't believe it, I really don't think its a stretch to claim that Theramore was, in some respects, a revenge attack for Taurajo. At the very least I could see it being used as a justification from some of the more pacifistic leaders of the Horde. (I really don't see Garosh needing to justify an attack on the Alliance at all tbh.)

Because it in no way was. He approached on Northwatch Hold cause the plan was to hit Theramore to gain a hold on Kalimdor. Now if Garrosh wasn't heading to Damnation I can fairly see it but as things stand, No it wasn't justification. Garrosh wouldn't see it..he probably could care less since Kalimdor is...sort of his now.

[Dreknar20]

Funny how Jaina goes on a Purge, but had walked away from Arthas moments before he did his own.

times and people change

---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 07:00 AM ----------

(I really don't see Garosh needing to justify an attack on the Alliance at all tbh.)

He dsnt really.
The Horde is at war with the Alliance.
Theramore being an Alliance city is the only justification anyone would need to attack it.

[Sanguinare]

In cata jaina's town was a staging point for an alli invasion of Kalmdor so even destroying her city was not just killing the innocent but a tool to save horde lives. What makes the act evil is in not caring about the mentioned innocent and that by that time it was done it more about revenge. Sadly the same can be said about the purge that Jaina did funny how bad emotions form one can spread to others. Now you as a player got sent on a quest to do something you knew was wrong. just like the Horde but on the horde side was see a quest play out about our leader in a power play start to get the idea in his head that he should do something like that to his own people making him the worst thing to happen to this world since Deathwing...

Horde are not bad guys alliance are not good guys we are at times both but for the most part we as players are good guys out to save the whole world not just our faction.

[TheDangerZone]

His opinion that Theramore was revenge for CTaur is 'wrong'? Sorry mate, thats not how opinions work.

Yes, it was. For starters, Garrosh doesn't really gives a flying fuck about Taurajo.

Opinions can be wrong...we have to respect it. Really what he said is far from the truth.

This so much. Where did people got the idea that opinions can't be wrong? are you shitting me? in fact, if your opinions are shitty enough, EXPECT to be punched in the face.

The point is, everybody gets an opinion, that is just. Now, if your opinions are dumb, expect to be asked to sit in the corner.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

He dsnt really.
The Horde is at war with the Alliance.
Theramore being an Alliance city is the only justification anyone would need to attack it.

Unless he was headed for a more...*lighter* path he probably would of mentioned it or at least acknowledged it of sorts. Since he isn't I don't see him saying "THIS IS FOR TAURJO LOK'TAR'OGAR!!!

In cata jaina's town was a staging point for an ali invasion of Kalmdor so even destroying her city was not just killing the innocent but a tool to save horde lives. What makes the act evil is in not caring about the about the mentioned innocent and that by that time it was done it more about revenge. Sadly the same can be said about the purge that Jaina did funny how bad emotions form one can spread to others. Now you as a player got sent on a quest to do something you knew was wrong. just like the Horde but on the horde side was see a quest play out about our leader in a power play start to get the idea in his head that he should do something like that to his own people making him the worst thing to happen to this world since Deathwing...

Horde are not bad guys alliance are not good guys we are at times both but for the most part we as players are good guys out to save the whole world not just our faction.

Alliance has always been good guys having bad apples. Horde ORIGINALLY before WCIII was Chaotic Evil but went chaotic neutral or what not. They're turning into villains into this big Story arc at the moment...until Garrosh is deposed and that ends.

This so much. Where did people got the idea that opinions can't be wrong? are you shitting me? in fact, if your opinions are shitty enough, EXPECT to be punched in the face.

The point is, everybody gets an opinion, that is just. Now, if your opinions are dumb, expect to be asked to sit in the corner.

I could say in my opinion I'm the most perfect human being. Doesn't make me right.

[eillas]

How exactly is it wrong? While I don't believe it, I really don't think its a stretch to claim that Theramore was, in some respects, a revenge attack for Taurajo. At the very least I could see it being used as a justification from some of the more pacifistic leaders of the Horde. (I really don't see Garosh needing to justify an attack on the Alliance at all tbh.)

After reading Tides of war, I can safely say that Garrosh gives zero fucks about the tauren. Not once he ever mentions the camp. The Alliance received bad intel that the camp was planning an attack on Northwatch, and even Baine thinks it is honorable how they acted.

[Xothic]

He dsnt really.
The Horde is at war with the Alliance.
Theramore being an Alliance city is the only justification anyone would need to attack it.

This is a very good point. I think alot of people are really stuck up with this idea that victories for either side have to be begat by equal loss to that side. No. That is boring. The horde isn't some horrible monster for destroying Theramore, they were simply destroying an enemy encampment, therefor no doubt saving hundred of lives of their own soldiers that would have had to fight the inhabitants of Tmore eventually. Using the mana bomb was simply the most effective way of doing so.

Before someone comes in and starts crying about how the horde killed all the women/children whatever, keep in mind that we would have killed them anyway doing a normal frontal assault. Thats how war works. It would be exactly the same if the Alliance raided Bilgewater for example, all the horde would have been killed.

[Dreknar20]

The point is, everybody gets an opinion, that is just. Now, if your opinions are dumb, expect to be asked to sit in the corner.

You say you have a right to your opinon?
Well I have a right to my opinion and my opinion is that you have no right to your opinion!!!!!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This is a very good point. I think alot of people are really stuck up with this idea that victories for either side have to be begat by equal loss to that side. No. That is boring. The horde isn't some horrible monster for destroying Theramore, they were simply destroying an enemy encampment, therefor no doubt saving hundred of lives of their own soldiers that would have had to fight the inhabitants of Tmore eventually. Using the mana bomb was simply the most effective way of doing so.

Before someone comes in and starts crying about how the horde killed all the women/children whatever, keep in mind that we would have killed them anyway doing a normal frontal assault. Thats how war works. It would be exactly the same if the Alliance raided Bilgewater for example, all the horde would have been killed.

No we wouldn't have killed children, heck nobody does that. Innocents wouldn't be slain outright. It WOULD NOT have happened. And no they didn't really save valuable lives Xothic..Garrosh taunted the Alliance out with his own men to bring out more men and women from the Alliance. He also killed Blue Dragons and stole a powerful artifact to empower the Mana Bomb.

THAT little factor is why it's considered horrible.

You say you have a right to your opinon?
Well I have a right to my opinion and my opinion is that you have no right to your opinion!!!!!

We all do but there's a point where opinions can be...weird and way too unreasonable to be a fair opinion.

[Pandamists]

▲
▲ ▲ Leave it to the Alliance to commit mass genocide in Dalaran.

[TheDangerZone]

The Alliance has never been evil, to you it's boring as *fuck*. You're reaching there, you can still make things *interesting* without them going lawful evil or chaotic evil or whatever. Look Lawful good Alliance CAN EXIST on Azeroth. You are just acting obstinate.

No, seriously, shot in the face. Back alley.

I'm not asking the alliance to become evil, don't put things in my mouth (we don't know each other that long) My last statement about lawful neutral or evil was merely general opinion about fantasy narrative. I'm saying that Lawful good cannot exist because it's such an absolute, give me lawful goodish alliance, lawful we-are-moral-but-we-are-willing-to-compromise-for-our-convictions alliance. "Lawful good" should not exist in Warcraft, is just hypocritical.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

No, seriously, shot in the face. Back alley.

I'm not asking the alliance to become evil, don't put things in my mouth (we don't know each other that long) My last statement about lawful neutral or evil was merely general opinion about fantasy narrative. I'm saying that Lawful good cannot exist because it's such an absolute, give me lawful goodish alliance, lawful we-are-moral-but-we-are-willing-to-compromise-for-our-convictions alliance. "Lawful good" should not exist in Warcraft, is just hypocritical.

It's not hypocritical to be lawful good in a fantasy world. There is no law that it's hypocritical. It really can exist, just because you cannot comprehend it doesn't mean it can't exist.\

Leave it to the Alliance to commit mass genocide in Dalaran.

I just had this bloody argument on the Story Forums....

[eillas]

Right now, camp Taurajo is the best case in a worst case scenario.