Why is there a huge bias against players who began after BC?

[ringpriest]

Another point to make:

Back in Classic, your reputation meant something. There was no cross-server LFG, there was no guild finder tool, there was a lot fewer people playing, and you had more consequences to your social actions. The general anonymity involved with cross-server LFG resulted in the social side taking a huge hit. Blacklists were no longer effective. In Classic, if you were a douche/ninja/general jerk (without the backing of an established raiding guild - not saying I agree with it, but it was what it was), you were eventually forced to reroll elsewhere or quit the game. Now those people run rampant, and only expect more to be given to them.

Not complaining about the changes in the game regarding rep/gear/whatever - I play a lot of characters and enjoy those benefits for my alts (ease of gearing, rep bonus tokens, etc.), but as a longtime player, sometimes I wonder if the juice was worth the squeeze.

This is an excellent point. I've always wondered a little why Blizzard didn't build a reputation system into LFD. Yes, it could be abused, especially if they didn't design it well, but it could have made a massive difference. Heck, League of Legends recently introduced a "positive-feedback only" system that has apparently been very successful. (Given Blizzard's lackluster management of the kick feature, I'm not sure I'd want to trust them with implementing a negative reputation system.)

[Deleted]

why do peopel who played halo1 online think the new halo stinks?

[BeastmasterGuardian]

why do peopel who played halo1 online think the new halo stinks?

Off Topic forums are ====================> Over there

[Orangetai420]

I think it's because we don't love the same game.

Newer players came to love the game as it was in Wrath. It was very different back in BC and Vanilla.

Your reputation on the server really mattered; good luck getting a group for anything if you weren't known and respected. I remember logging on back in BC and getting several whispers asking me to heal a 5man. I also remember playing a hunter and searching for hours to find a decent group, but as time went on and I started learning how to really play my class and it became easier and easier to find a group. Basically your server reputation meant something, the server communities were reflective of this and just all around better (in my honest opinion).

The dungeon finder ruined so much of this experience. I think getting into a group with no social interaction and getting easier loot is the downfall of WoW. Yes, its convenient to gear your alts or even your main but have you ever stopped to ask yourself "Is this a good thing for the game in general?" - I think not, the community as a whole burns through content way too fast and the social interaction on servers crumbles from the bottom.

There are a few other reasons but this is the main one for me. This is all opinion based. I have nothing against newer players, sometimes it just feels like a struggle for us to keep the game we love while newer players try to change into a fast track/hit a button, get a group, profit. (This mindset is shared by newer and older players alike, and its horrible)

[Deleted]

arena gear? hurp durp
People got boosted all the time in tiers. We boosted fresh 70s in BT year farm all the time in their piss T4ish/5man gear.

well that is if you got boosted or were the core of the guild(officers/raiders) who did the raids from the launch of the raid, since not everyone started mid tbc and get boosted by T5-6 guilds

we boosted a lot ppl tho about 80% of the boosted ppl usually left or some other shit. hell even making SR gear for shaz and ppl still leaving or going inactive

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 05:53 PM ----------

CLASSIC/TBC > WRATH +
3) Use Ammo and bag slot for hunters > Ammo no longer needed, hunters get 5 bags

Don't forget Deadzone(unshootable zone of 0-14yards):P now you can run and shoot pretty much +1-41yards

[Deleted]

Why is there a huge bias against players who began before BC?

[BeastmasterGuardian]

Why is there a huge bias against players who began before BC?

Just take every reason so far and reverse it

[Moradim]

its a different game now.

people from vanilla werent used to having stuff handed to them like people are now.

everything, from gold to legendaries, is FAR easier to get now. so I can understand why the "vets" of the game might have this attitude.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

Don't forget Deadzone(unshootable zone of 0-14yards):P now you can run and shoot pretty much +1-41yards

Also true I used to PANIC when I would run outta ammo and have to switch to my axe. Only bad part was the gun was leveled up to my level 400 and my axe was usually still only skill level 123. So after the run, I would have to go out somewhere, dismiss the pet, and level up my Axe or Sword skill Good times And had to remember to refill my Quiver before the next run.

[Totle]

They're the "old people" of the game; the "back in my day".

The game was really challenging and required dedication. Coming from such a steep learning curve to WotLK which was more casual friendly created this sense of "people have it too good these days" and the notion of "welfare" epics.

Simply put, the BC people had to play a harder game which makes them think they're better... when in truth, they aren't. Nor are they worse.

[Otimus]

I think it's because we don't love the same game.

Newer players came to love the game as it was in Wrath. It was very different back in BC and Vanilla.

Your reputation on the server really mattered; good luck getting a group for anything if you weren't known and respected. I remember logging on back in BC and getting several whispers asking me to heal a 5man. I also remember playing a hunter and searching for hours to find a decent group, but as time went on and I started learning how to really play my class and it became easier and easier to find a group. Basically your server reputation meant something, the server communities were reflective of this and just all around better (in my honest opinion).

The dungeon finder ruined so much of this experience. I think getting into a group with no social interaction and getting easier loot is the downfall of WoW. Yes, its convenient to gear your alts or even your main but have you ever stopped to ask yourself "Is this a good thing for the game in general?" - I think not, the community as a whole burns through content way too fast and the social interaction on servers crumbles from the bottom.

There are a few other reasons but this is the main one for me. This is all opinion based. I have nothing against newer players, sometimes it just feels like a struggle for us to keep the game we love while newer players try to change into a fast track/hit a button, get a group, profit. (This mindset is shared by newer and older players alike, and its horrible)

I see a lot of people say this stuff, and I can get it, but I think what a lot of people don't appreciate is that there is a reason these changes were made, why LFD was made, why LFR was made, and so forth. It was far less to do with convenience and far more to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of the content was flat out not being done by all that many people. That INCLUDES the dungeons, the backbone for a majority of the game outside of questing. Just because you lived in your own convenient social bubble back when things were different in WoW, doesn't mean that everyone else did. Living in a bubble within WoW is a big problem. A lot of people see the forest before the trees, and don't understand why these things had to be done, because the problems never affected them, as they were part of a minority type of gamer in the game.
You pretty much can't design content around 15% or so of players. You just can't. It's stupid. Either they make it more accessible, or they put all of their design toward things like quests. This issue is probably only an issue to really, really large MMOs. Something with a small player base probably never really had to deal with these things.

[ringpriest]

I see a lot of people say this stuff, and I can get it, but I think what a lot of people don't appreciate is that there is a reason these changes were made, why LFD was made, why LFR was made, and so forth. It was far less to do with convenience and far more to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of the content was flat out not being done by all that many people. That INCLUDES the dungeons, the backbone for a majority of the game outside of questing. Just because you lived in your own convenient social bubble back when things were different in WoW, doesn't mean that everyone else did. Living in a bubble within WoW is a big problem. A lot of people see the forest before the trees, and don't understand why these things had to be done, because the problems never affected them, as they were part of a minority type of gamer in the game.
You pretty much can't design content around 15% or so of players. You just can't. It's stupid. Either they make it more accessible, or they put all of their design toward things like quests. This issue is probably only an issue to really, really large MMOs. Something with a small player base probably never really had to deal with these things.

I won't disagree that less people raided or ran dungeons back in vanilla, but I don't think it hurt the game as much as you do. I think it helped provide depth and verisimilitude to the world. I was in a huge guild in Vanilla and much of BC, and there were a lot of people in it who did not raid and seldom ran dungeons. And you know what? They all seemed to be having a really good time. We had crafters for whom that was their whole reason for playing. One hunter who just liked playing his hunter around Azeroth. (Gods, he would have loved the modern pet stables ) We had a solid group of PvPers, who did not raid and didn't like instances. I liked having to pick and choose what content and playstyle I'd pursue. There were people who just wanted to finish a questline or a rep grind, or just wanted to kill Horde in Hillsbrad. The game was immersive - it was a place, not just pixels on a screen like some generic platformer or shooter.

Maybe some of this is just nostalgia, but in vanilla and BC, the world felt like a world. Now it just feels like a game.

[Zogarth]

The game suffered from a HUGE change going from BC to Wrath. Raids became easymode, heroics became 15-minute lootfests, and the gearing curve became so that you could get the newest gear just from farming heroics.

[Buttfear]

When grouped with players from BC I know we can spend all night wiping and laugh about it, newer players aren't like that.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

When grouped with players from BC I know we can spend all night wiping and laugh about it, newer players aren't like that.

YES! Like walking backwards into MC as a ghost just cause we wiped for the 38th time lol

[Scathbais]

i myself started back in bc and i understand where you are coming from and over the years i have met some really great players who have started in wotlk,cata and mop some who have even manged to be better than me which im not afraid to admit but you must also understand where we veteran players are coming from since wotlk's release we have witnessed thousands of noobs and baddies who suck and no matter how paitent you are with them nor no matter how much you try help they act like they are king shit and better than us even though we have been around for years ever since cataclysm i have seen so many new players lvl one character to max farm for boa gear then start lvlng alts and thinking because they have achieved one max lvl characetr they know how wow works its mechanic's,politics etc to get where i am i have worked for years to get here ive raided, pvp'd completed alot of achievments got over 120 mounts and almost 100 pets ive watched as dozens of content was removed or changed to suite the newer players due to their whining in my ultimate oppinion veteran players have a right to share what we think and feel towards you newer players.

BUT THAT BEING SAID I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ABUSING NEWER PLAYERS THEY TO DESERVE A CHANCE TO PROVE THEMSELVES AND I THINK IT IS WRONG THIS HAS HAPPENED TO YOU veteran players need to share their oppinions and feelings constructively without being rude,offensive or abusive and i wish you good luck for your furture of wow gaming and welcome you to wow =)

One could argue that players who started pre-wolk, "veterans" as you call them, lack the ability to include punctuation in their comments. One could argue a correlation exists, but one could simply say that it makes your post almost impossible to read.

Also to all the veterans, I would love to see your evidence that the majority of the "whining" came from Wrath, Cata, and MoP players. Given how few pre-Wrath raiders actually killed content while it was still relevant, it might be the case that those people qq'd the longest and loudest.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 04:01 PM ----------

I think players who started after BC is the reason the game is so bad as it is right now. Old school players wanted hard content and tbh the game was more popular when not everybody could do everything, is it just me who misses the 6 month (if you where no lifing) grind to get high warlord? Miss 1 shotting people with windfury as a enh shammy? when you first reached high warlord you where so frigging pleased with yourself because there wasn't so many that had done the same on the same realm.

So are you saying that the class imbalance that allowed enh shaman to one-shot people was the reason you were able to get High Warlord?

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 04:05 PM ----------

I think a lot of it has to do with WoW is not the same game it used to be. Classic/BC were created with different philosophies than WoW today. The change started in Wrath and had taken almost full effect by late Wrath and Cata.

Hmm, WoW became easier/more accessible starting in Wrath. That means that the majority of people in BC were unhappy with the way things were and Blizz changed it to make the player base happy. So all the qq'ing and what not that lead to WoW being what it is today started in BC.

Go figure.

[Paarthurnax]

At least in my experiences Vanilla and BC were designed in a "sink or swim" style all throughout. Most of the game was pretty challenging and you really had to try hard to get anything. 5 man's were hard, epics/rewards were hard to get, raids were brutal but awesome. All of this harshness really bred a different type of wow player back then, you were trained really quickly to have to think on your feet and pick things up much faster or nothing ever got done.

Now compare that with how it was in Wrath and beyond. It's totally opposite, as raids may still be difficult (because of hard modes) there are far more easy hand-holding options for people so you hit max level and really don't NEED to think for yourself at all. Just run around and do dailies and easy 5 mans and easy mindless LFR raids and your consuming all the content without really learning how to think for yourself or challenge yourself.

On a business level you can see why Blizzard starting moving in that direction, as most people don't raid at a high level so having easily accessible content for them at all times is just good business.

[Daalton]

It's not exclusive to WoW though. YOu see this in a lot of settings: company promotion, even school clubs. Seniority is the term used. People like to feel like being there longer means something.

This sums it up exactly.

[PrairieChicken]

Because many idiots think that they are better than others because they played longer

I wonder how many percentage of those who whine game is too easy have been hardcore raiding or pvping

+ Many don't recognize difference between tedious and difficult

[Beefhammer]

i would post something but i stopped reading after i was you had joined mid Wotlk

OT its because raiding and the whole game itself was a lot different back then, and harder imo. To be a raider, and a hardcore badass one, you needed to farm t4 content before moving on to t5, then once you farm t5 content, you ready for the big t6. It was just a lot cooler back then, you saw people sitting in lots of different gear, not like it is today when everybody has the same looking tier just with different stats

You confuse time investment with difficulty. People do it all the time when trying to remember back then. T4-Sunwell was not difficult. The raids themselves were rather simple compared to today and a tad more difficult than Vanilla. The issue was gearing up a raid group to get into T5 took time and many of the top guilds stole members. People left in droves so they could see the new content instead of helping out their guild get geared up enough to move on. Thus leaving guilds in the dust only to have to recruit more and farm Kara over and over to move on. It was a vicious cycle, that took a very ong time to get ahead if you were not a top guild. Nothing difficult about it just immensely time consuming.