WHAT is Horde? (spoiler)

[Dreknar20]

So because they're insane and don't know right from wrong you're telling me a race of sadistic, genocidal necromancy wielding villains should live?

They are insane to [I]your[I] eyes, and dont [I]your[I] right and wrong

That dsnt mean the Forsaken believe themselves evil and wrong, if they did then they wouldnt be doing whatever they are doing.

[Scummer]

You are human killing humans.

They are abhumans killing humans, elves, mutated constructs and aliens.

We're talking actions and reasons.
Their race really doesn't matter in this example.

[Icarris]

Do it then.
I've just killed a random person on the street because I thought it was a good thing.

So tell me, was what I did right or wrong and should I be punished for it?

Mayans practiced ritualistic human sacrifice. I don't think they thought what they were doing was immoral but necessary for their survival.

[Combatbutler]

We're talking actions and reasons.
Their race really doesn't matter in this example.

You try to argue with a follower of Tzeentch.

You can't win ;P

Tzeentch takes keen notice of all plots and plans. As the Great Conspirator, he is aware of all the dreams of plans and mortals. This is how Tzeentch is able to perceive the future; by being aware of all that is planned and all that may potentially happen, he can see all possible fates. Wishing to be involved with the fates of existence, Tzeentch directly and indirectly interferes in the fates of all things. His intentions are unknown, his schemes insanely complicated and his plans so extraordinarily long-term it may be that none other than he will ever see the end of all of them. It is often claimed that Tzeentch wishes to extend his power over the Materium, or to defeat his brother Gods; however, it is the nature of Tzeentch to care just as much about altering the fate of a single individual. Tzeentch's schemes also often appear contradictory to those who discern them; this is because only Tzeentch can understand his own interests and perceive the full possibilities of each action.

[Scummer]

Who decides what is right or wrong? Are you the standard of judgment?

It would be immoral by western human society standards, but from another society, or race of people.

So the Lich King wasn't evil he was just misunderstood when he wanted to kill everybody?

[Verdugo]

So the Lich King wasn't evil he was just misunderstood when he wanted to kill everybody?

Read the book Kelthuzad wrote about scourge. Its no different from propaganda that church of holy light spreads.

[iamthedevil]

Do it then.
I've just killed a random person on the street because I thought it was a good thing.

So tell me, was what I did right or wrong and should I be punished for it?

That's not putting yourself in their shoes at all. Verdugo explained it. You are relating them to yourself, not the same thing.

[Scummer]

You try to argue with a follower of Tzeentch.

You can't win ;P

Tzeentch takes keen notice of all plots and plans. As the Great Conspirator, he is aware of all the dreams of plans and mortals. This is how Tzeentch is able to perceive the future; by being aware of all that is planned and all that may potentially happen, he can see all possible fates. Wishing to be involved with the fates of existence, Tzeentch directly and indirectly interferes in the fates of all things. His intentions are unknown, his schemes insanely complicated and his plans so extraordinarily long-term it may be that none other than he will ever see the end of all of them. It is often claimed that Tzeentch wishes to extend his power over the Materium, or to defeat his brother Gods; however, it is the nature of Tzeentch to care just as much about altering the fate of a single individual. Tzeentch's schemes also often appear contradictory to those who discern them; this is because only Tzeentch can understand his own interests and perceive the full possibilities of each action.

I don't give a crap about some multi coloured cloud.
Glory to Sigmar!

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 09:45 PM ----------

That's not putting yourself in their shoes at all. Verdugo explained it. You are relating them to yourself, not the same thing.

He skipped the question entirely as have you.

[Icarris]

Read the book Kelthuzad wrote about scourge. Its no different from propaganda that church of holy light spreads.

He makes some great points in it:
The largest misconception the living have of the Scourge is our penchant for what is considered 'evil.' For the sake of demoralization we allow this error to perpetuate, and indeed spread it on our own. The true nature of The Scourge is our transcendence of the shackles that keep any of the living races from becoming as prosperous as we.

For example: What benefits do emotion and honor really hold? They serve to validate the living, to make them feel 'good.' Now, what flaws do they hold? Emotion is directly correlated to the ignorance of logic and reason. Honor is, at most times, the sole perpetrator of able resources fighting a losing battle. It is baffling even to me that the living can be so unaware of how eager we are to play the part of their villain, to nurture their greatest flaws by becoming the embodiment of all that incites irrational behavior.

Moral ambiguity cannot be 'cleansed.' Antipathy cannot be 'healed' or 'assuaged.' Greed cannot be 'dispelled' and wrath cannot be 'cured.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 02:51 PM ----------

So the Lich King wasn't evil he was just misunderstood when he wanted to kill everybody?

A lot of people consider homosexuals as immoral beings. And everything they practice is wrong. So, yes.

[madokbro]

What is horde?

Well, the English word Horde derives from Orda (organization), a historic sociopolitical and military structure in steppe nomad cultures such as Turks and Mongols. Specific examples of historic hordes include,
Hordes of the Jochid Ulus, also known as White, Blue and Gray hordes, formed in 1226 and 1227
Golden Horde, a Turkic-Mongol state established in the 1240s
Great Horde, a remnant of the Golden Horde from about 1466 until 1502
Nogai Horde, a Turkic clan situated in the Caucasus Mountain region, formed in the 1390s

Hope this helps, peace.

[Moradim]

I have a feeling sylvanas will be teaming up with lorthemar, as both have already hinted at doing something against a horde led by garrosh

we will see...

[delus]

Garrosh might end up killing her. How pissed off would the forsaken be if that happened? That would be good entertainment.

[iamthedevil]

I don't give a crap about some multi coloured cloud.
Glory to Sigmar!

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 09:45 PM ----------



He skipped the question entirely as have you.

I skipped the question, because as i pointed out, it had nothing to do with my comment.

[Scummer]

Garrosh might end up killing her. How pissed off would the forsaken be if that happened? That would be good entertainment.

I think the people who cared about their story would probably be thankful .

Atm the Sylvanas's story is so damn villainous that she's really beyond forgiveness. If she's progressed any further then she becomes a plot armoured mess of a character.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 10:13 PM ----------

I have a feeling sylvanas will be teaming up with lorthemar, as both have already hinted at doing something against a horde led by garrosh

They kinda both had a falling out during Wrath and at the start of MoP.

[Dreknar20]

Annnnnnyways

My point was that the Forsaken dont consider what they are doing as evil or wrong. If they did then they wouldnt be doing it.
Every leader belives they have right on their side.
Every army fights believing God is on their side

[Scummer]

I skipped the question, because as i pointed out, it had nothing to do with my comment.

The you missed the point of the question.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 10:16 PM ----------

Annnnnnyways

My point was that the Forsaken dont consider what they are doing as evil or wrong. If they did then they wouldnt be doing it.
Every leader belives they have right on their side.
Every army fights believing God is on their side

What the Forsaken judge as moral is pretty much irrelevant when their version of morality breaks the very basic foundations of every race on Azeroth along with their desire to kill everyone.

[delus]

I think the people who cared about their story would probably be thankful .

Atm the Sylvanas's story is so damn villainous that she's really beyond forgiveness. If she's progressed any further then she becomes a plot armoured mess of a character.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 10:13 PM ----------



They kinda both had a falling out during Wrath and at the start of MoP.

Imagine if she dies and the Forsaken end up making her into a martyr even though she was only using them for self gain. Maybe even corrupt her teachings into benevolence. That would amuse me.

[Scummer]

Imagine if she dies and the Forsaken end up making her into a martyr even though she was only using them for self gain. Maybe even corrupt her teachings into benevolence. That would amuse me.

The problem is that the current Horde storyline is one of redemption. Sylvanas and the Forsaken are a massive stain on that eventual result.
It's going to be very hard to see the ending when after Garrosh is defeated Varian will have to ask Thrall what that crazy bitch is doing using necromancy on his people and slaughtering his people.

[Icarris]

The you missed the point of the question.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 10:16 PM ----------



What the Forsaken judge as moral is pretty much irrelevant when their version of morality breaks the very basic foundations of every race on Azeroth along with their desire to kill everyone.

It absolutely counts because they are members of the horde. Once again just because you view it as immoral from your view, doesn't mean it is.

[Scummer]

It absolutely counts because they are members of the horde. Once again just because you view it as immoral from your view, doesn't mean it is.

Then they will abide by the Horde's morality.
By our standards and every other playable race they are evil regardless of how they see themselves.

If they do not see themselves as immoral then that's their opinion of morality, it does not change every other races view of them which remains the same - they are evil. You cannot pretend they are the only race.