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  1. #441
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attsey View Post
    I firmly belive people are more likely to act like a bell end if they know there can be no come back or server rep to harm. Im not sure Ill hold anyone on my faction who ganked low lvls for hours on end in any high regard. That what I think the difference is.
    Except that you've got specific servers CRZing with you; it's not any random server. The population of people who go out and gank is going to be relatively constant, and while it may be more difficult to track them, if they're a regular problem, they'll be there regularly. You can't talk to the opposite faction anyway, so there's no real cross-faction "rep" other than you can manage by rolling on their server to badmouth them or post on their forums, the same as you'd do with people ON your server.

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    yet again endus who's fault was it that the players stuck to end game content? blizzard designed it that way, i do remember a bit of world pvp in wrath in cata there was zero well almost zero depending on your server
    And now they've fixed that design flaw. You seem to be under the impression that Blizzard shouldn't ever fix things because you've become used to the mistake. That's wacky.


  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And now they've fixed that design flaw. You seem to be under the impression that Blizzard shouldn't ever fix things because you've become used to the mistake. That's wacky.
    they should never have allowed it to get to the point where they now need to use crz as a solution in the 1st place, altho to do that in cata they would have needed to change the whole direction of the xpac.

    as i said i dont mind the ganking i just hate cross realm part, if they had sorted this crap out in cata crz wouldn't be needed, altho its not blizzard's fault people don't always want to level new toons not even CRZ can fix that, soon the gankers will have no1 to gank coz they are all in pandaria

    so basically blizzard are penalizing those that are leveling because there's not enough people (in blizzard's eyes) leveling this holds true for pve servers also, as the probably haven't fixed the spawn time of mobs and nodes yet
    Last edited by thunderdragon2; 2012-12-14 at 10:58 PM.

  3. #443
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    they should never have allowed it to get to the point where they now need to use crz as a solution in the 1st place, altho to do that in cata they would have needed to change the whole direction of the xpac.

    as i said i dont mind the ganking i just hate cross realm part, if they had sorted this crap out in cata crz wouldn't be needed, altho its not blizzard's fault people don't always want to level new toons not even CRZ can fix that, soon the gankers will have no1 to gank coz they are all in pandaria
    There is no way to "solve" this other than something like CRZ. The only other possible means would involve forcing players to do things they don't want to do, in a way that affects both PvE and PvP realms, a significantly worse problem than what you're trying to "fix".

    so basically blizzard are penalizing those that are leveling because there's not enough people (in blizzard's eyes) leveling this holds true for pve servers also, as the probably haven't fixed the spawn time of mobs and nodes yet
    Nobody is being penalized while leveling.

    They are experiencing the intended population and competition in the leveling zones. For many, this means there's more competition. That was the point; the lack of competition for nodes/mobs/rares was unintended and this fixed it. And on PvP servers, the relative safety due to lack of population was also not intended.

    CRZ fixes those. It isn't in any way breaking them.


  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Nobody is being penalized while leveling.

    They are experiencing the intended population and competition in the leveling zones. For many, this means there's more competition. That was the point; the lack of competition for nodes/mobs/rares was unintended and this fixed it. And on PvP servers, the relative safety due to lack of population was also not intended.

    CRZ fixes those. It isn't in any way breaking them.
    the problem now with crz that questing is so easy that people no longer want to group and people are competing for mobs because people want the max amount of exp from each mob that's killed also no1 speaks to each other unless ganking is happening, there used to be some chat ect, so yes were being penalized form a social and a time point of view, tho i guess its our fault that people don't want to group up to do quests faster...., i think blizz should bring back group quests to encourage people to be more social in this mmorpg
    Last edited by thunderdragon2; 2012-12-14 at 11:20 PM.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    the problem now with crz that questing is so easy that people no longer want to grp and are there competing for mobs because people want the max amount of exp from each mob that's killed also no1 speaks to each other unless ganking is happening, there used to be some chat ect, so yes were being penalized form a social and a time point of view, tho i guess its our fault that people don't want to group up to do quests faster...., i think blizz should bring back group quests to encourage people to be more social in this mmorpg
    Blizzard can't fix people.

  6. #446
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    the problem now with crz that questing is so easy that people no longer want to group and people are competing for mobs because people want the max amount of exp from each mob that's killed also no1 speaks to each other unless ganking is happening, there used to be some chat ect, so yes were being penalized form a social and a time point of view, tho i guess its our fault that people don't want to group up to do quests faster...., i think blizz should bring back group quests to encourage people to be more social in this mmorpg
    There's no way to force people to be social or nice. The competition for mobs is absolutely intended.

    I have no idea how you think they could have possibly addressed these issues in any reasonable manner other than using CRZ to boost population levels up.


  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Blizzard can't fix people.
    i know that's the problem, tho adding group quests back in would be a good incentive to try to get people to group up and be a bit social

  8. #448
    I would like to reply to many posts in this thread but Endus has already said everything that I think needed to be said. I agree with the points that he has made.

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    i think blizz should bring back group quests to encourage people to be more social in this mmorpg
    Their removal was a reasonable choice due to there being a lack of people doing the lower level content making it in cases extremely hard to find other people to complete group quests with, but considering the way CRZ has brought people back into the world, I think their reimplementation in some form might not be a bad idea.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's no way to force people to be social or nice. The competition for mobs is absolutely intended.

    I have no idea how you think they could have possibly addressed these issues in any reasonable manner other than using CRZ to boost population levels up.
    endus those are the problems CRZ brings to the servers, if there was an incentive for people to group that would be nice but as you said you cant force it on them

  10. #450
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    i know that's the problem, tho adding group quests back in would be a good incentive to try to get people to group up and be a bit social
    The issue with group quests is that nobody did them. At least, not in a group. I only ever did the ones I could solo, and ignored the others. It simply wasn't worth the time to get a group together for it. And in those rare exceptions, like the arenas, there was minimal socialization; people would just spam /1 with "LFG for Arena, need tank/healer G2G", you'd respond, they'd invite, you'd knock 'em out, say "thx", and go about your day. That's not "being social".

    There's plenty of easily-accessible group content for leveling that is far easier to access than ever before, between LFD and scenarios. They're as social as they've ever been, and while you can't join someone's guild after an LFD run, you can absolutely cross-realm friend them and keep in touch, and get together in cross-realm content. I know I've run far more dungeons while leveling since LFD than before.

    CRZ isn't making people be antisocial. There's usually conversations going on in most zones now, from what I've seen. It may be complaining about a ganker, or barrens-style chatspam, but it's a lot better than the dead silence it was pre-CRZ.


  11. #451
    yes endus no1 did them because back then you couldn't get the people for them but now that crz is in there should be enough people to do them (depending on the zone), so it would be a good time for them to return.

    are you trying telling me than scenarios are leveling content?

    we are talking about leveling endus not max level

    please show me the button that will allow me to queue for scenarios before i hit 90

  12. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    yes endus no1 did them because back then you couldn't get the people for them but now that crz is in there should be enough people to do them (depending on the zone), so it would be a good time for them to return.
    No, it wasn't that you couldn't get people for them, it's that it wasn't worth the time to ask, even if anyone was around, and then wait for them to run/fly over to you so you could do it. It was just better to skip it and keep going.

    are you trying telling me than scenarios are leveling content?

    we are talking about leveling endus not max level

    please show me the button that will allow me to queue for scenarios before i hit 90
    The lack of any right now isn't really relevant; they said they were using scenarios as a replacement for the group quests concept, to fit that part of the story in a different way. That's why I mentioned them.


  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The lack of any right now isn't really relevant; they said they were using scenarios as a replacement for the group quests concept, to fit that part of the story in a different way. That's why I mentioned them.

    there's the problem, the point of CRZ was to make the zones more populated yes, but also social, there is no "social" aspect in these zones outside general chat since everything else isau6tamated while leveling, lfg,bg

    i remember in wrath and even a bit in cata where every1 helped every1 even if it was by grouping.
    but i guess your ok with keeping the outdoor world social aspect of the game in general chat
    but as we have already covered we cant force people to be social so im not sure how to fix it. i suppose scenarios could be tuned for lvl 60+ to do them
    Last edited by thunderdragon2; 2012-12-15 at 08:51 AM.

  14. #454
    Herald of the Titans velde046's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeydivision82 View Post
    +10 to you.

    People piss me off when they say "it's not PVP if they're low level"

    Sure it is, it's a Player versus another Player. Regardless of level. Sure it's a dick move, but in te end, it's PVP on a PVP server.
    Partially true, but still, these people pay their subscription fees too and even though some may be aware about PVP, stealing people's game time by constant ganking isn't good. THis will also reduce the number of people that will even start a new character on PVP realms. In the end less and less people on PVP servers because people do leave, but few new ones come to it, what will result in a slow death for PVP.
    Friend of mine who really liked the idea of PVP (plays other games too) unsubbed because he was startign a fresh toon and couldn't get anywhere on the server he was playing. He can play 3-4 nights a week for an hour or two. So if you get 6 out of 8 nights where you cannot make any progress because some sad little bastard thinks it's funny to keep camping you for an hour or two, then there's something not quite in balance.

    I do believe in some kind of dishonorable kill debuff, whereby every time you'd kill someone more than 10 levels below you you'd get a -10% stats up to a maximum of level wehere you'd equal the one you're ganking. THe debuff should last around 15 minutes then.
    If you kill someone your own level the debuff also disappears or if you are killed by someone around your level.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by velde046 View Post
    I do believe in some kind of dishonorable kill debuff, whereby every time you'd kill someone more than 10 levels below you you'd get a -10% stats up to a maximum of level wehere you'd equal the one you're ganking. THe debuff should last around 15 minutes then.
    If you kill someone your own level the debuff also disappears or if you are killed by someone around your level.
    This again seems like a very artificial way of handling the perceived problem.

    It would also be very easy for low level characters to be used to abuse the mechanic. World PvP battle? No problem, grab a level 60 or two with you to get splashed down and have the opponents' stats get decreased. High level character AoE farming mobs? No problem, run into the AoE and force the debuff on him. Someone not wanting to attack you? No problem, keep attacking him and force him to kill you and get the debuff.

    There would have to be safety mechanics such as the debuff requiring the higher level to be the one attacking first and so on and so on. Overall it is not intuitive at all. I also don't think that such a mechanic is needed.

  16. #456
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    there's the problem, the point of CRZ was to make the zones more populated yes, but also social, there is no "social" aspect in these zones outside general chat since everything else isau6tamated while leveling, lfg,bg

    i remember in wrath and even a bit in cata where every1 helped every1 even if it was by grouping.
    but i guess your ok with keeping the outdoor world social aspect of the game in general chat
    but as we have already covered we cant force people to be social so im not sure how to fix it. i suppose scenarios could be tuned for lvl 60+ to do them
    You can group up with CRZ. There's nothing about that system which encourages less social behaviour; it allows for more by increasing the zone population. You're inventing a false distinction.

    If YOU are being less social in MoP than ever before, that's on you. LFD and CRZ have made the game far more social than it has ever been, including Vanilla.

    Quote Originally Posted by velde046 View Post
    Partially true, but still, these people pay their subscription fees too and even though some may be aware about PVP, stealing people's game time by constant ganking isn't good. THis will also reduce the number of people that will even start a new character on PVP realms. In the end less and less people on PVP servers because people do leave, but few new ones come to it, what will result in a slow death for PVP.
    It really won't. PvP realms exist solely for ganking. And they have been wildly popular for that reason since their introduction.

    Yes, it will mean some people don't want to roll on a PvP realm but that's why there are PvE realms. People really need to stop confusing "I don't like PvP realms" with "nobody could like PvP realms". There's plenty of us that love them, and are ecstatic about the changes CRZ have brought.


  17. #457
    [QUOTE=Endus;19455935]You can group up with CRZ. There's nothing about that system which encourages less social behaviour; it allows for more by increasing the zone population. You're inventing a false distinction.

    If YOU are being less social in MoP than ever before, that's on you. LFD and CRZ have made the game far more social than it has ever been, including Vanilla.

    im very social, but during leveling in mop i had no interaction out side general and lfr, not counting the level 90 if im lucky i saw 1-3 people i could quest with (not inc helfire), even when i saw the and tried to group with them i got "no ty its faster to level if i quest alone" sometimes oi got nothing form them which saddens me, there's also nothing that encourages more social behavior

    so i guess its down to your battle group how "social" your level experience is now
    Last edited by thunderdragon2; 2012-12-15 at 04:57 PM.

  18. #458
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    im very social, but during leveling in mop i had no interaction out side general and lfr
    "If we ignore two major social aspects, there was no social aspect".

    You aren't making any sense. Chat and dungeons are social. And they're much improved; chat hasn't been this active in the old world since Vanilla, and LFD is better than dungeons have ever been for socialization.

    not counting the level 90
    Again, you're ignoring the social multiplayer aspect for extraneous, irrelevant reasons, like the level of the people in question.
    if im lucky i saw 1-3 people i could quest with (not inc helfire), even when i saw the and tried to group with them i got "no ty its faster to level if i quest alone" sometimes oi got nothing form them which saddens me, there's also nothing that encourages more social behavior
    It is faster to quest alone. That has next to nothing to do with how social the game is or is not. Just because you can't chat with party chat does not mean the game is not a social one, particularly when you're deliberately ignoring the many ways it's been made more social as a result of CRZ.

    The "it's faster to quest alone" has been true since the game launched. It's not some change that came about with CRZ. It's always been true.


  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    My opinion?

    It might have helped cut down on the people complaining if they had done something like offer optional server transfers before they put CRZ in place.
    Why should they offer free transfers off a server type that warns you when you create a character on it that this can happen?

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    "If we ignore two major social aspects, there was no social aspect".

    You aren't making any sense. Chat and dungeons are social. And they're much improved; chat hasn't been this active in the old world since Vanilla, and LFD is better than dungeons have ever been for socialization.





    Again, you're ignoring the social multiplayer aspect for extraneous, irrelevant reasons, like the level of the people in question.


    It is faster to quest alone. That has next to nothing to do with how social the game is or is not. Just because you can't chat with party chat does not mean the game is not a social one, particularly when you're deliberately ignoring the many ways it's been made more social as a result of CRZ.

    The "it's faster to quest alone" has been true since the game launched. It's not some change that came about with CRZ. It's always been true.
    the reason that i removed ;lfg from the equation is that it has noting to do with crz, general chat is active if there are some factors, you haven't come into a zone when every1 is done the time of the day that you are leveling at or there's ganking happening, in the case of the last part id probably log my main and kill the pets

    yes starting a conversation is easy but if no1 answers well... the social aspect gained from general is gone

    correct?
    Last edited by thunderdragon2; 2012-12-15 at 05:41 PM.

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