[Movies] The Hobbit Trilogy (Possible Spoilers)

[Frontenac]

thats what I'm saying Saruman isn't nesissarily trustworthy to beleive about wether or not Sauron has a physical body.

Since the fact Sauron has a body or not changes nothing to the plot and offers no advantage to either Sauron or Saruman, it would be pretty much pointless to think Saruman lied about it.

[Gamdwelf]

Since the fact Sauron has a body or not changes nothing to the plot and offers no advantage to either Sauron or Saruman, it would be pretty much pointless to think Saruman lied about it.

then why are you arguing about it?

[Arrowstormen]

Bats?? Bats weren't part of the battle of the 5 armies. It was Dwarves, Elves, Humans, Goblins/Orcs and the wargs (there is some scholarly debate there), and the Eagles. But no bats.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Bat

---------- Post added 2012-12-17 at 09:52 PM ----------

I think it would be way out of line to add the Necromancer to the battle. If they want to emphasize the importance of claiming the area for Sauron they could add some sort of dialogue between him and Azog before he rides out to battle (if Azog will be there, which I think is highly likely). The Necromancer doesn't have a physical form either.. Or, having an eye of fire flying around the battlefield would certainly add to the light-hearted feel of The Hobbit

Reading through the quote of the guy playing Smaug/Necromancer it's safe to say he's not a Tolkien fan, and he doesn't seem to be sure of what exactly his role as the Necromancer is. So he could be confusing the location of Sauron and Smaug.

I get that they want to make the final battle to be like the Battle of Pennelor Fields (spelling?) but adding the Necromancer of even a Nazgul just doesn't seem like anything positive in my mind. Not only were the Nazgul never buried (since they never died), they were occupied with doing evil stuff in Minas Morgul, they'd have no time to appear at Erebor (the idea of them appearing was placed in my mind by reading a comment on the article with the Necro/smaug guy's quote). And the Necromancer was supposed to be driven out of Mirkwood before the battle, which is why Gandalf has time to appear there. D:

Edit: I guess I shouldn't expect them follow the story thoroughly, since it's an adaption of the book, not a direct movie-version. But still..!

I don't know what you expect the Necromancer to do if he's at the battle. When I say be at the battle, I don't mean he takes up his rusty ol' mace and starts kicking elfbutt. As far as I know, the battle at Dol Guldur is the White Council fighting his minions, and making him run away. Surely he could be some sort of shadowy commander at the battle, and run away to Mordor as soon as the battle is lost. It only adds to the battle in my opinion. It also would make him seems much less like random filler if he made an appearance at the final important showdown.

It would give a nice feeling of the foreshadowing and subplot becoming a part of the main plot.

[SirRobin]

Its a shame we've still got two years until we get to see the Battle of Five Armies. I expect it will be an amazing sight.

[BHD]

Well honestly he knows anyone would be tempted by the ring, he knows that he himself would be greatly tempted to use it. So it would make sense that he would think Saruman would similarly be tempted and want to keep it away. That doesn't mean that he suspected him of being evil. Wanting to use the ring isn't evil, what is evil is the way it corrupts people. I think it's right when Gandalf realizes that Saruman has a Palantír and has been using it that he realizes just how bad it is.

I meant that he suspected that Saruman was lying and that he himself wanted the ring for selfish purposes. That he was already working behind the back of the White Council. I have no idea where I read that, though. I'll see if I can find some kind of source.

Edit: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Saruman

In TA 2850, Gandalf entered Dol Guldur and confirmed that the evil presence was indeed Sauron. By Saruman's advice, the White Council decided against attacking Dol Guldur. Gandalf would later remark that it was at this council meeting that he first began to suspect that Saruman desired to possess the One Ring. Saruman's real intention was to permit Sauron to build up his strength, so that the One Ring would reveal itself. He later found that Sauron had more knowledge of the possible location of the One Ring than he expected, and in TA 2941, he finally agreed to attack Dol Guldur.

Hm, it says he only suspected that Saruman wanted to possess it, guess I read too much into it and made up some "facts" in my mind! ^^

[Arrowstormen]

Its a shame we've still got two years until we get to see the Battle of Five Armies. I expect it will be an amazing sight.

One and a half year. Third part will be released during Summer 2014, not Winter.

[Arlee]

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Bat

My point wasn't that bats never fought with Goblins or didn't exist at all; my point was Bats were not part of the Battle of Five Armies.

I meant that he suspected that Saruman was lying and that he himself wanted the ring for selfish purposes. That he was already working behind the back of the White Council. I have no idea where I read that, though. I'll see if I can find some kind of source.

Edit: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Saruman

Hm, it says he only suspected that Saruman wanted to possess it, guess I read too much into it and made up some "facts" in my mind! ^^

Well it is clear either way that Gandalf didn't completely trust him, which was wise

[Gamdwelf]

My point wasn't that bats never fought with Goblins or didn't exist at all; my point was Bats were not part of the Battle of Five Armies.



Well it is clear either way that Gandalf didn't completely trust him, which was wise

From the link: bats, They also took part in the Battle of Five Armies in TA 2941.

[BHD]

Well it is clear either way that Gandalf didn't completely trust him, which was wise

Indeed. It does make it more impressive when you consider Saruman's persuasive powers (that you mentioned earlier), maybe Gandalf sensed that "power" and became more suspicious/aware!

[Wilian]

Frodo never used the ring before unwittingly putting it in the Prancing Pony. Bilbo used it a lot.

Sauron sends the Black Raiders at Frodo far before he puts the Ring the first time. He knows only that a Hobbit named Baggins has it and that he's coming from a place far in the West called the Shire. It's the only info he got from Gollum.

You're just dead-wrong. Frodo used the Ring in many occassions during the years between Bilbo's disappearance and Bree events, one of the most famous moments being at the house of Tom Bombadil whom sees Frodo with the Ring in finger regardless of the invisibility.

He also hands it over to Bombadil who wears it with no effect on him whatsoever. It's also the scene when Frodo is showing first signs of worry over it as the reason he put it in the finger there is to just make sure the Ring is real (Even though he knows it is) after Tom Bombadil's poof Ring's gone trick.

[SirRobin]

Indeed. It does make it more impressive when you consider Saruman's persuasive powers (that you mentioned earlier), maybe Gandalf sensed that "power" and became more suspicious/aware!

I was a little surprised that Saruman came off as abrupt as he did in this movie. Christopher Lee has some major acting chops and he didn't play up Saruman's slickness anywhere near as much as I expected him too. Honestly Christopher looked kind of ill in the film. No where near the energy he had in LotR. He is getting on in years after all.

---------- Post added 2012-12-17 at 03:29 PM ----------

You're just dead-wrong.

Well it has been ages since I read the books. So my memory may definitely be fuzzy. I recall the impression that the ring was little more than a gimmick in the Hobbit. Whether intentional or not, Sauron's agents and servants seemed little aware of its importance. I recall wondering, in hindsight, why Smaug never picked up the evil vibes emanating from it. The dragons date back to the first age after all. If anyone would be able to sniff out such an evil item it should be them.

[BHD]

I was a little surprised that Saruman came off as abrupt as he did in this movie. Christopher Lee has some major acting chops and he didn't play up Saruman's slickness anywhere near as much as I expected him too. Honestly Christopher looked kind of ill in the film. No where near the energy he had in LotR. He is getting on in years after all.

True, but given the fact that he's 90 years old, I'm just happy he's in it at all! He also didn't go to New Zealand to record the movie, all his parts were made in London, which probably has to do with his age too.

[Wilian]

Well it has been ages since I read the books. So my memory may definitely be fuzzy. I recall the impression that the ring was little more than a gimmick in the Hobbit. Whether intentional or not, Sauron's agents and servants seemed little aware of its importance. I recall wondering, in hindsight, why Smaug never picked up the evil vibes emanating from it. The dragons date back to the first age after all. If anyone would be able to sniff out such an evil item it should be them.

One of the most dangerous aspect of the Ring was that it did not appear evil or that the evil could be just "sensed" off it. For anyone who saw it, it appeared beautiful, as an object worth of adoration and safekeeping. Maybe sparking jealousy in someone with weaker will. (Or as in Smeagol's case, go nuts off the bat because he was nasty person to begin with)

As Gandalf said, there are many magic Rings in the world, almoust all of them lesser ones made as practice by the elves of Eregion. The thought of it being The One Ring off the bat was borderline lunacity as it was assumed by everyone (Except Saruman) to be vanished into the Great Sea thousands of years ago. And if it couldn't the The Ring, then what would've it be? Nine were with the Nazgúl, Six were either obtained by Sauron or destroyed. Three were with the elves and Gandalf.

The only thing that bothered Gandalf about the ring was the reluctance of Bilbo to admit how he really obtained it. Even then he didn't consider it to be the One Ring properly until that night after party when Bilbo went nuts over it.

[Arlee]

From the link: bats, They also took part in the Battle of Five Armies in TA 2941.

Ha! I looked right past the top section and just read the second section like a nub >< That's interesting I definitely don't remember them being there, but then it has been years since I read The Hobbit.

True, but given the fact that he's 90 years old, I'm just happy he's in it at all! He also didn't go to New Zealand to record the movie, all his parts were made in London, which probably has to do with his age too.

I had no idea he was that old...

[Pachycrocuta]

I was a little surprised that Saruman came off as abrupt as he did in this movie. Christopher Lee has some major acting chops and he didn't play up Saruman's slickness anywhere near as much as I expected him too. Honestly Christopher looked kind of ill in the film. No where near the energy he had in LotR. He is getting on in years after all.

Being about 90 years old (he looks damn good for that age), Christopher Lee said that he didn't want to reprise his role as Saruman as that meant travelling to NZ, which he wasn't sure if he could handle. He wanted to be the voice of Smaug, since he could just "phone in" his lines. But he ended up taking the role as Saruman again. I am glad that he took the part of Saruman again, as I do not think ANYONE could play him after this. Though it would have been awesome as hell if he would have also been the voice of Smaug, and they could just add a bit of voice effects to make them a little more distinct from each other (Smaug and Saruman).

[SirRobin]

True, but given the fact that he's 90 years old, I'm just happy he's in it at all! He also didn't go to New Zealand to record the movie, all his parts were made in London, which probably has to do with his age too.

Well good for him for doing it but I think he should have done Smaug instead. I imagine a certain "oiliness" from Saruman that I'm not sure if Chris can still pull off.

[Frontenac]

You're just dead-wrong. Frodo used the Ring in many occassions during the years between Bilbo's disappearance and Bree events, one of the most famous moments being at the house of Tom Bombadil whom sees Frodo with the Ring in finger regardless of the invisibility.

He also hands it over to Bombadil who wears it with no effect on him whatsoever. It's also the scene when Frodo is showing first signs of worry over it as the reason he put it in the finger there is to just make sure the Ring is real (Even though he knows it is) after Tom Bombadil's poof Ring's gone trick.

Ok, I forgot about Tom Bombadil. It was the first time he put it on though. He never used it all the time he was in the Shire. And that's 17 years. Bilbo, in the other hand used it a lot when he didn't one to see someone (mainly the Sackville-Baggins).

[BHD]

Well good for him for doing it but I think he should have done Smaug instead. I imagine a certain "oiliness" from Saruman that I'm not sure if Chris can still pull off.

Would you rather have another actor portrait him? I personally don't think I can see anyone else doing the role after him. Or, maybe in like 20 years if they decide to re-visit LotR.

I had no idea he was that old...

Some fun facts about the oldies in LotR: Christopher Lee is 90 years old and reads LotR at least once a year, he also knows the text on the ring in the language of Mordor by heart and has recorded a few of Treebeard's songs before the movies came out. Ian McKellen is 73 years old, and Ian Holm (old Bilbo) is 81. Best part: all three of them are a "sir"

Edit: Lee even met Tolkien once!

[Deleted]

The Necromancer is actually in the Hobbit book used to get Gandalf away from Bilbo and the Dwarves during Mirkwood and the encounter with Smaug so Bilbo could become important and a hero.

And yes, the Necromancer [spoiiler]is Sauron, this was not something Peter Jackson made up either.[/spoiler]

I'm pretty sure it was the witch-king not Sauron himself

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure it was the witch-king not Sauron himself

You're wrong, the Necromancer is Sauron.