where has sylvanas gone?

[Deleted]

That would require Onyxia lying to them. And the goblins to actually build something.

We goblins build a lot, mind you.

[yetgdhfgh]

We goblins build a lot, mind you.

Those little bugger terraformed a whole zone just look at ashzara and what they built there

[Deleted]

Those little bugger terraformed a whole zone just look at ashzara and what they built there

Yep, goblins are awesome.

[Immitis]

Many characters are fake-brave... but when dealing with the might of Hellscream they are.... absent.
If Garrosh is doing such big mistakes... wheres the so called veteran Saurfang to challenge him to an old school duel? Wheres the mighty Rexxar, half orc half ogre to apply a correction to Garrosh? Sylvanas isnt a mano a mano character, she cant challenge Garrosh, for the duel would end in a matter of seconds.


Truth is they are all scared for they know as father as son, Hellscream is too powerful in a 1v1 combat. As his father risen above and eclipsed all, so the son shall be the same.



The time will come when all of them will ally for they might have a chance like that.

saurfang is living in northrend trying to live on without his son he probably could care less about what the horde is up to because his world is gone.

rexxar is with the mok'nothal in outland trying to strengthen and rebuild his people rexxar isnt really a people person and hes loyal to thralls horde he helped save orgrimar during the shattering but after garrosh became warchief he left and went back to outland.

you're right about sylvanas though you arent often right but in this case you are. sylvanas has never won a fight without either numbers or sneak attacks to ensure victory.

still garrosh isnt that strong either hes tough but hes not that exceptional he spent the vast majority of his life crying in nagrand. he wasnt training or learning any type of magic or fighting anything.

in the book cairne was winning the fight by a long shot and sure some people might say oh hes old but he was a hardened tauren before thrall invited his people into the horde he spent his entire life battling the centaur and the quilboar in a harsh lifeless land with almost no resources while heavily outnumbered.

during the sparring match between thrall and garrosh before wrath thrall was also winning by a long shot. unlike garrosh thrall spent his entire childhood and some of his adult life as a gladiator in death match arenas so if theres one orc who knows how to fight its him. he then spent the rest of his adult life breaking out of internment camps and leading a succesful rebelion against the much larger and more powerful alliance who at the time had complete control over the orcs having beaten them down and locked them in camps.

also for someone who actually has beaten garrosh on 1 on 1 fights is varian who has multiple times beaten the crap out of garrosh and made him have to retreat.

he like thrall had a very troubled childhood as a child his kingdom was destroyed by the orcs and he went to live in lordaeron where he grew up with arthas and calia and the two princes trained together. arthas was always jealous of varian because he would always win against him and his father treated varian like a son. to arthas varian was the son his father had always wanted. as a young man varian had to watch his childhood friend turn into a monster and as an adult had lost his wife to the riots in stormwind from the builders revolt. despite the fact that his tiffen was a staunch supporter of the builders being paid.

on a diplomtic trip to thrall to negotiate a trade of elwyn lumber for other goods in order to stop the fighting between the orcs and the elves varians ship was destroyed by naga and he was split into two seperate people the main personality of varian had amnesia and was captured by an orc to be used as a slave gladiator and varian spent most of his adult life fighting in the ring.

so that makes 3 people who have either beaten garrosh or has come very close before something interrupted them. cairne, thrall, and varian wrynn

---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 02:17 AM ----------

"The orcs changed because one person said so. That person stands before you now as Warchief. Do you doubt him?"
"I have watched the other races... I have seen their squabbling, their ruthlessness. Their wars do nothing but scar the land, and drive the wild things to extinction. No, they cannot be trusted. Only beasts are above deceit."

these two quotes pretty much sums up why rexxar wouldnt care at all about "saving" the horde unless thrall personally asked for his help or someone similar

[Deleted]

during the sparring match between thrall and garrosh before wrath thrall was also winning by a long shot.

this simply isnt true

[yetgdhfgh]

this simply isnt true

In the scene garrosh was winning but is was retconed that thrall won the duel before the scourge attacked orgrimmar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA6DvBvUQPk go to 3:00 to see the duel for yourself

[Dreknar20]

these two quotes pretty much sums up why rexxar wouldnt care at all about "saving" the horde unless thrall personally asked for his help or someone similar

well he made those quotes before really interacting with Horde civilization and what not, so I would say he is not as hostile and disgusted by "established" civilizations as he use to be

[Deleted]

In the scene garrosh was winning but is was retconed that thrall won the duel before the scourge attacked orgrimmar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA6DvBvUQPk go to 3:00 to see the duel for yourself

can you provide a source for your claim ? I've never heard about the duel being retconed

[Deleted]

can you provide a source for your claim ? I've never heard about the duel being retconed

It's sometimes hard to know what to consider canon, but there's a panel in one of the comics of Thrall basically very apathetically blasting Garrosh half way across the arena when he realises that something is afoot in the city. This pretty much implies that he was just humouring Garrosh with the duel, probably not wanting to show him up, and could have probably made him explode or something. xD

Here it is: http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/WOW19p08.jpg

[Kaleredar]

Undead still get sexual pleasure?

That's what all the Sylvanas fanboys are banking on.

Anyway... Sylvanas is likely being... "saved..." for a later time. Either for a reuniting with her two sisters, or for her to become some sort of evil quasi-lich king type figure with whom we have to contend. Maybe in the latter situation, she'll actually stay dead.

I'm sure we'll see her in the final raid in some sort of support role for the Horde... I'd be surprised if all the faction leaders don't show up in some measure.

And as for a duel with Garrosh, well... Sylvanas has the honor of being the racial leader to get her ass handed to her the most (Killed by Arthas, kicked out of her own city, almost killed by Arthas again, attempted suicide off of icecrown citadel, beaten up by the Gilnean people, and killed by Godfrey.) So... yeah.

[Ceyx]

My hope is that Sylvanas becomes the new Lich King, and that the Scourge will play a part in fighting against the Burning Legion next expansion!
How epic would that be?!

[Deleted]

It's sometimes hard to know what to consider canon, but there's a panel in one of the comics of Thrall basically very apathetically blasting Garrosh half way across the arena when he realises that something is afoot in the city. This pretty much implies that he was just humouring Garrosh with the duel, probably not wanting to show him up, and could have probably made him explode or something. xD

Here it is: http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/WOW19p08.jpg

yeah could explode my ass.
You guys are thinking objective... You hate Garrosh and you basicly say everyone could beat him. Like probably you would say of his father... His father could have butchered Thrall in seconds. Why is son different from the father?


Also theres a reason blizz makes Garrosh a final boss of an expansion .... I dont think they make him because hes a 2$ sissy. Got it?
Saurfang Rexxar Jaina and all other "heroes" will never be final bosses no matter how corrupt they get. Because they arent as strong. Simple as that.

[Deleted]

yeah could explode my ass.
You guys are thinking objective... You hate Garrosh and you basicly say everyone could beat him. Like probably you would say of his father... His father could have butchered Thrall in seconds. Why is son different from the father?


Also theres a reason blizz makes Garrosh a final boss of an expansion .... I dont think they make him because hes a 2$ sissy. Got it?
Saurfang Rexxar Jaina and all other "heroes" will never be final bosses no matter how corrupt they get. Because they arent as strong. Simple as that.

I don't hate him actually. I pity him, both as a character and for how he has been written into becoming an irredeemable a-hole. I actually prefer him over what Thrall has become, an orc who I would rather not see return as Warchief or still be a welcome member of the Horde at all. But, I still think Thrall could have kicked his ass.

It was only a few years before their duel in the arena that Garrosh was a simpering, solipsistic wreck withering away in Garadar, lost in despair over what he believed his father had done (Grom had done all those things, but he was unaware of his 'redemption'). I doubt he had done much training as a warrior before than beyond training to hunt game (which is admittedly rather deadly in Outland) for feeding the tribe. Thrall had been reared as a warrior pretty much as soon as Blackmoore found him as an infant. Fighting was pretty much all he knew for decades and on top of that his Shamanistic mastery of the elements and you have one formidable fighter.

Grom was a powerful warrior, sure, but he had been bolstered by consuming demon blood twice(?) and had been fighting wars all his life. Garrosh had no combat experience before coming to Azeroth. The ability to fight is not a hereditary trait, just as the ability to sing is not. I actually like Garrosh more than Thrall, but I think Thrall would have kicked his ass with little effort.

[Deleted]

Worthy of M. Night Shyamalan

Not quite stupid enough to be a Shaymalan twist.

A Shaymalan twist would be that none of it is real and Garrosh loves peace.

I don't really know what could happen though, I just know I really like the story right now. It's much more interesting than all the other "coming together"-storylines.

[Deleted]

Some of you people seem to be confusing physical strength with power. Is Garrosh physically strong? Sure. Is he a skilled warrior? Well, he was a complete useless self-pitying wimp in Outland. I guess he thinks he's turned into some great warrior now. So, that's all he is. A physically strong warrior.

He lacks intelligence. He lacks empathy. He lacks wisdom. He isn't respected as a leader. He rules with fear. Power is so much more than just physical strength. Intelligence is power. Magic is power. Friends are power. Respect is power. Garrosh has none of that.

Also, Garrosh is a warrior. Jaina is a frost mage. Jaina would rip Garrosh into little pieces before his axe would get close.

In short: Garrosh is a joke.

As for Sylvanas, well... She doesn't get old. Where's the rush?

[Deleted]

I don't hate him actually. I pity him, both as a character and for how he has been written into becoming an irredeemable a-hole. I actually prefer him over what Thrall has become, an orc who I would rather not see return as Warchief or still be a welcome member of the Horde at all. But, I still think Thrall could have kicked his ass.

It was only a few years before their duel in the arena that Garrosh was a simpering, solipsistic wreck withering away in Garadar, lost in despair over what he believed his father had done (Grom had done all those things, but he was unaware of his 'redemption'). I doubt he had done much training as a warrior before than beyond training to hunt game (which is admittedly rather deadly in Outland) for feeding the tribe. Thrall had been reared as a warrior pretty much as soon as Blackmoore found him as an infant. Fighting was pretty much all he knew for decades and on top of that his Shamanistic mastery of the elements and you have one formidable fighter.

Grom was a powerful warrior, sure, but he had been bolstered by consuming demon blood twice(?) and had been fighting wars all his life. Garrosh had no combat experience before coming to Azeroth. The ability to fight is not a hereditary trait, just as the ability to sing is not. I actually like Garrosh more than Thrall, but I think Thrall would have kicked his ass with little effort.

No Grom wasnt fighting wars all his life..just.
Almost all wars he fought he has been outnumbered, he was basicly forged in the very heat of battle.

And on top of that he had a talent for fights. Saurfang fought wars aswell yet he wasnt 10% of Grom.
This talent i say was transmited to the son.

While Thrall is becoming even more of a peace hippie. He still has a place in the Horde for what he has done. I personaly dont like him as warchief just cos hes peace hippie. I always wanted a warrior like warchief so we dominate the alliance . They either submit their resources to us or be destroyed if they refuse.
So then the Horde can take the war to Burning Legion and destroy them aswell and take their place as true conquering masters of other worlds.

---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 11:03 AM ----------

Some of you people seem to be confusing physical strength with power. Is Garrosh physically strong? Sure. Is he a skilled warrior? Well, he was a complete useless self-pitying wimp in Outland. I guess he thinks he's turned into some great warrior now. So, that's all he is. A physically strong warrior.

He lacks intelligence. He lacks empathy. He lacks wisdom. He isn't respected as a leader. He rules with fear. Power is so much more than just physical strength. Intelligence is power. Magic is power. Friends are power. Respect is power. Garrosh has none of that.

Also, Garrosh is a warrior. Jaina is a frost mage. Jaina would rip Garrosh into little pieces before his axe would get close.

In short: Garrosh is a joke.

As for Sylvanas, well... She doesn't get old. Where's the rush?

Jaina you gota be kidding me.
You dude must be out or something.
Since you are on a frenzy, i bet Eltrigg could beat Garrosh ha? Maybe also that chen guy, or even Gamon... Hes warchief just cos he rules by fear but seems he gets beaten by all..

[Wildberry]

He was winning until hellscream only cut him a little then the poision kicked in. Read a little something! It also smashed his spear which was thanks to the poision not gorehowls power

This just in Poison can Demolish the shaft of a spear!
More to come at 10!

In all seriousness going off from what is stated in "The Shattering", The Runespear was Shattered by the force of the blow from Gorehowl, not the Poison.

[Deleted]

My hope is that Sylvanas becomes the new Lich King, and that the Scourge will play a part in fighting against the Burning Legion next expansion!
How epic would that be?!

A nobody like this silvanaz that some people talk about, cannot possibly lead the scourge since he cant even lead the forsaken.

But seeing Bolvar Fondragon in action could be indeed interesting.. maybe helping us taking down some old gods .

[Wildberry]

Some of you people seem to be confusing physical strength with power. Is Garrosh physically strong? Sure. Is he a skilled warrior? Well, he was a complete useless self-pitying wimp in Outland. I guess he thinks he's turned into some great warrior now. So, that's all he is. A physically strong warrior.

He lacks intelligence. He lacks empathy. He lacks wisdom. He isn't respected as a leader. He rules with fear. Power is so much more than just physical strength. Intelligence is power. Magic is power. Friends are power. Respect is power. Garrosh has none of that.

Also, Garrosh is a warrior. Jaina is a frost mage. Jaina would rip Garrosh into little pieces before his axe would get close.

In short: Garrosh is a joke.

As for Sylvanas, well... She doesn't get old. Where's the rush?

Let's See here:
Intelligence-Regardless of morality, he is a fantastic tactician (Just look at Theramore now!)
Magic-Okay, you got me here
Friends-Malkorok, Gallywix at the moment too!
Respect-Look at the younger Orcs

As for Jaina, not if this happened b4 the Avatar nerf
(In all seriousness Gameplay=/=Lore, Frost Mages would have taken over the world by now)

In Short: Before people started whining about Garrosh because "Muh Warcraft III" and Blizzard slated him to be killed off by having him go 180 (Atleast the other changes made sense if you can connect the dots at all)

(P.S. the "Coming Together" Story is old by now, as for "the Horde isn't evil!", look at WCII, The Horde under Doomhammer, he wasn't going to let his people starve because of some misplaced sense of pacifism, he was also rather honorable, a Good middle ground between Blackhand and Thrall [Diplomacy when it helps {See: The Kingdom of Alterac, and the Amani Tribe} and Violence when it's needed {Purging of the Shadow Council, and the Second War}])

[Ceyx]

A nobody like this silvanaz that some people talk about, cannot possibly lead the scourge since he cant even lead the forsaken.

But seeing Bolvar Fondragon in action could be indeed interesting.. maybe helping us taking down some old gods .

Well, they could make Sylvanas work as a Lich King if they really wanted to. But seeing how she is a faction leader they probably will just keep her where she is. But there is always a chance, and I think that would really make for an interesting turn of events. I never really cared about Bolvar. Even when I was raiding ICC, I was like... meh. I knew he was alive.