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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastaircrawly View Post
    I would say I have seen a decline about 30 days after mope came out. My 70% of the 6 guilds I am in have quit playing. I have a real id list full of people that quit. In fact I unsubed the first time ever since I started playing in bc. I think mope is burning out people quicker than anything other xpacs.
    This, and im pretty damn sure ive read from officials somewere that people unsubbed dramatically fast after 1 month... I GUESS the numbers will show... Either way, MOPE sucks... It truely does. From a pvp'ers pov, i just dont see it working.
    And to all you MOP lovers... GO NUTS CALL ME A NOSTALGIC ASSHOLE... idc really, if you like the game, fine... But i dont, so dont you dare think you have the right to say shit at me, or any other who feels this way.
    Cause we had a game, that was kinda nice... Then cata game, the game we loved and cared for had taken a turn for the worse... But we stuck with it, cause we loved it... The memories, the fun, the community...
    Then MOPE came and well yeah i havent stopped crying since it came...

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    Excuse me, but what is wrong with discussing anecdotal evidence? His claim was that "indications point to" sub decline. This is not a wild and unsupportable claim. Many people feel as though their server populations are thinning out. Sub decline is not a phenomena that needs to be proven in order for people to feel its effects.

    Compare the original claim to something along the lines of "Mope caused an increase in subscription numbers, beyond the initial influx at expansion release." That would be a startling fact if shown to be true. If you make a claim that runs counter to public opinion, you'd better believe that your reasoning will be challenged. Or if you claim that "Mope drove away veterans and replaced them with kids by luring them in with karate pandas and pokemon." There's no real evidence to support the claim that the population demographics are changing, and Blizzard is not likely to ever release that kind of information. Any discussion on that topic is unsupportable and clearly meant to be inflammatory.

    Also note that anecdotal evidence such as "Mope is great, I have so many fun things to do" never comes under attack by moderators.
    nothing wrong with discussing anecdotal evidence, however, claiming that its fact IS a problem.

    Manifold Predications, go look it up... And this is why anecdotal evidence can NOT be used.

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  3. #363
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    I'm gonna be just a logical as all the naysayers are!

    Four friends of mine recently picked the game back up when it was on sale over the past few weeks. I'm gonna go by my instincts and say that player subs have gone up by a couple million because seeing my four friends back on is evidence enough to that.

    Dontch'ya love logic?
    P.S. I agree with everyone saying these threads are getting annoying. I really wish you could/would close them as they appear, Mr. SuperMod Dars.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnkie View Post
    This, and im pretty damn sure ive read from officials somewere that people unsubbed dramatically fast after 1 month... I GUESS the numbers will show... Either way, MOPE sucks... It truely does. From a pvp'ers pov, i just dont see it working.
    And to all you MOP lovers... GO NUTS CALL ME A NOSTALGIC ASSHOLE... idc really, if you like the game, fine... But i dont, so dont you dare think you have the right to say shit at me, or any other who feels this way.
    Cause we had a game, that was kinda nice... Then cata game, the game we loved and cared for had taken a turn for the worse... But we stuck with it, cause we loved it... The memories, the fun, the community...
    Then MOPE came and well yeah i havent stopped crying since it came...
    It's actually MOP, not MOPE and I take it you don't like it (oh and your post does sound a bit nostalgic, btw). Just teasing =)

    As for subscription numbers, even if Blizzard lost half of their player base, they would still be the largest MMO on the market. However I'm not sure what difference 10m vs 8m has on your actual game experience, unless those 2 million people were all on your server.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Activity declines on tracking sites are suggestive, albeit not conclusive, evidence that subs will also decline.
    and those tracking 'sites' sometimes dont even know folks... in fact... I have 4 90s that EACH have over 100 days played, EACH. and that have been playing for 2+ years... yet these sites dont know who they are... SO... how bloody accurate can they be? Truthfully, tell me.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 01:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    Uhhhhh did you buy the last two expansions? Wrath came out in November and Cata came out in December. Both of those were never discounted like MoP.
    Actually, I've bought 4 copies of LK, 4 copies of Cata, and 4 copies of MOP. It's already been explained about their marketing timing, and in FACT Cata AND LK BOTH have been discounted... in fact... you can buy vanilla, BC AND LK COMBINED... FOR A GRAND TOTAL OF 5$... SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE A FUCKING DISCOUNT... What say you?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 01:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    *snip*

    And each and every review is someone's, say it with me, FUCKING OPINION. I can say 'I hate chicken sandwiches, they taste too much like chicken'... Does that make chicken sandwiches bad? FUCK NO. It means I took the time to write it, FUCK doesnt' even mean I told the truth even... Get the point?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 01:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    The subscription numbers are really content dependant, remember back in CATA when those Zandalari dungeons came out? That really killed the subs numbers. Let me post you a graphic of WoW subs on 2012:
    And let me point out one simple FACT from your graph... Wow even now has twice the number of subs than ANY of those other games have EVER had. Looks like Wow is bleeding out, you probably should cut your losses and move on, find a new game and dont turn around and see the death.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 01:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    You highly doubt that, because you don't like what you read.....sure. But once again, i don't admit players under 18 on my raids, because they simply doesn't know how to use their classes/races. Older guys, specially the ones who have raid progression are the ones i admit. I always talk to them in the guild chat, 3 of them, and i'm always keeping an eye on those details (ages & gameplay). I had a 52yo player on my raid, the man was noob, but at least he paid attention to the instructions given on the raidcall, ventrilo, etc. Kids and teenagers doesn't pay attention, and many of them cause a lot of mess. I can't afford to keep players like this on my raids, but sadly the number of older players are decreasing on those realms (that's why i play on the 3 LA realms).


    -----------------------------
    So, you'd take ME, but you wouldn't take some 16yo with 4/4H Terrace?

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  6. #366
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    I think the sub numbers are definitely going to take a hit when they are officially released.
    Mists of Pandaria just doesn't seem to be nearly as popular as the previous expansions were, just based on feedback alone.
    Granted, they have done a lot to improve the game and added some interesting extra storylines to follow, but that's not what the masses are clamoring for.
    When the next expansion comes out, which will hopefully pit us up against the almighty Sargeras... finally, the subs are definitely going to go through the roof.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by phenix View Post
    Its does now. You welcome.
    huh? What? I'm not sure what you are talking about... lol.

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  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akarui View Post
    Yup, don't see why people can't just wait until the statements that always appear on mmochamp front page, making a thread on a fan site forum for official information is somewhat ridiculous ¬.¬

    To be fair a few million drop in subs is nothing since they sold millions of copies of MoP so regardless of subs MoP has made it's money, but people neglect that information and seem to focus on subs, if it had 10 mil subs at one point that means $150,000,000 was made in one month; in addition to the expansion price times how many people bought it.
    A decline of any online game is usually a very slow and drawn out process so these thread just give me headaches XD
    Blizzard has never made this much in a month from WoW subs. For the 3 months ending in June 30, 2011, they made $359M, which comes to $119M/mo. But you have to keep in mind this includes "revenue from all World of Warcraft products, including subscriptions, boxed products, expansion packs, licensing royalties, and value-added services."

    The reason for this is that more than half the subs come from Asia, where they pay by the hour and only account for 10% of the revenue.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Why do you think that was a problem? Realize that there could be serious repercussions if they released erroneous information.
    Exactly, cause if they reported wrong numbers the doomsayers would go 'Oh look, you faked the numbers, you suck'

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 02:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    9 days to not report day 1 sales.

    /gratz
    Actually, they dont even have to report those, not EVER. They are legally obligated to cover income in their earnings calls, they are in no way obligated to provide subscription numbers, but they DO provide them, as a courtesy. Sadly, folks use that number to extrapolate all kinds of doomsaying conspiracy horseshit theories... You aren't one of those people are you? Didn't think so.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 02:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    Eh maybe delay was closer than I remembered. Took 6 days to report Cata's day 1 numbers. But they also went out of their way a month later to post the first month sales of Cata at 4.7 million. I'm just sayin they brag a lot more when the numbers are really eye popping.
    Wait, you are backtracking, cant stand on the ground you laid out earlier? hmmmm.

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  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Well it is invalid when Blizzard didn't even sell their own box copies so of course they didn't even put it on sale for BC or Wrath. I know I have been here since closed beta. So your argument is in fact still invalid.

    The blizzard store was up and ruining in bc but none the less you are just trying to say the argument is invalid.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 12:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Blizzard has put expansions on sale each and every Christmas even when subscriptions were at their peak during the sacred and holy Wrath that can do no wrong. I love how Blizzard is greedy for not having sales and then when they do the same exact people calling them greedy then claim they are desperate. Give it a rest.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 05:40 AM ----------



    I like how if anyone disagrees with those who hate Wow they are automatically fanboys.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 05:43 AM ----------



    Because going on the attack whenever anyone says anything positive about Blizzard is so much better.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 05:49 AM ----------



    No the point of this thread is for a bunch of Blizzard haters to gather around and fling insults at anyone daring to have an opinion of their own. These threads serve no purpose and it is shameful that the mods let them continue.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 06:08 AM ----------



    And yet EQ1 who has never hit 1 million subscribers and probably has around 250k now is on its 18th expansion after 13 years with no end in sight so it is complete and utter bullshit to claim subscription numbers affect development. If a game is profitable which Wow is and will continue to be for many years, developers will still make new content.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 06:14 AM ----------



    No anyone who calls someone a fanboy is a hater because they have made it crystal clear they have no interest in discussion or allowing for the possibility that their opinions aren't fact and that it is ok for others to disagree.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 06:28 AM ----------



    Also let's keep in mind that for a while people's savings and retirement plans was cushioning the effects of a bad economy and as those savings were depleted people started cutting back on unnecessary expenses. The effects of an economy on a downturn are rarely instant and can be felt for many years after.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 06:32 AM ----------



    Blizzard isn't going to risk a SEC investigation just to pump up their numbers.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 06:35 AM ----------



    And what are you going to do if subscriptions stay the same in Q4? What of your holy and sacred Xfire? Will you finally admit you are wrong about how accurate it is or will you come up with another idiotic excuse?
    First off did not call anyone a fanboy you can stop with the asinine argument "Derp I see the word fanboy so anyone who disagrees with that poster is called a fanboy" Second I see people be called haters for criticizing any anything in wow and that seems aspectable.

  11. #371
    I'm thinking subscription numbers for next call will come down to when 5.2 comes out. If it isn't out before the call in two months I'm guessing there will be a drop, otherwise probably a gain. It would be hard to argue that in two months time people everyone will still be playing as much as they are now if more content isn't released. I believe this has a bigger short-term impact then people leaving the game for good ever would (unless a lot of people quit).

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Exactly, cause if they reported wrong numbers the doomsayers would go 'Oh look, you faked the numbers, you suck'
    More like shareholders going "oh look, I bought/sold the stock based on erroneous information, so I'm going to sue you, Mr. CEO, for my losses."
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    More like shareholders going "oh look, I bought/sold the stock based on erroneous information, so I'm going to sue you, Mr. CEO, for my losses."
    it's rather shocking how little people know about the business world. Blizzard would be sued if they did that and could face prison time.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Pray tell me, what evidence do you have that "indications point to another fall in subs"? Please don't use any anecdotal evidence like "my friends stopped playing"
    I'd say general content. People are getting annoyed with nothing to do but dailies during their downtime from raiding. PvP players are tired of one-shot shit. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if subs went back down instead of up.

    I would actually be REALLY shocked if they went up.

    Edit: Also, DPS imbalancing, like Hunters and Boomkins being garbage for the most part, Mage QoL especially with L90 talents, Rogues feeling completely "bleh", etc.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    I'd say general content. People are getting annoyed with nothing to do but dailies during their downtime from raiding. PvP players are tired of one-shot shit. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if subs went back down instead of up.

    I would actually be REALLY shocked if they went up.

    Edit: Also, DPS imbalancing, like Hunters and Boomkins being garbage for the most part, Mage QoL especially with L90 talents, Rogues feeling completely "bleh", etc.
    That's not evidence.

  16. #376
    I think the subscription numbers are generally reported or gleened from the Activision quarterly earnings reports that are filed with the SEC (Securities Exchange Commission not the football conference).

    To answer this ambiguous question once and for all . . . Look at the Profit and Loss statements filed by Blizzard Activision, look at a line that resembles subscription earnings. Look at known subscription numbers during the quarters reported and extrapolate up or down based on the earnings.

    Or wait until Blizzard tells you. Your choice.

  17. #377
    Point 1

    Global Player numbers are irrelevant for game play. Cross server content makes this rather trivial now. Soon realms will cease to exist as cross server trading and guilds will be added to CRZ and CR BG's and CR dungeons etc ...

    Point 2

    All supposed WoW killers ceased to exist ... As subscription based games. So the grass is no longer greener ... On the unpublished ones...

    Point 3

    MoP added a lot of new end game choises. I only hear positive noises from current players. Please ignore the ex WoW players in this.

    Conclusion: useless thread as game play across servers will regroup any number of players in the future and there is no competition in the subscription based field.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    huh? What? I'm not sure what you are talking about... lol.
    you said wowprogress didn't have your 4 90's updated, and i said they did now. kinda clear.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 04:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Woeful View Post

    To answer this ambiguous question once and for all . . . Look at the Profit and Loss statements filed by Blizzard Activision, look at a line that resembles subscription earnings. Look at known subscription numbers during the quarters reported and extrapolate up or down based on the earnings.

    Or wait until Blizzard tells you. Your choice.
    There is no 'sub earnings'. they include sales of pets, realms xfer, name change etc all in 1 number. And if you've ever listened to quarterly earnings calls, almost every one has 1 guy ask why subs numbers are stable or a small % reduction but the 'earnings' column dropped much more. Last one i think it went from 331 million to like 311 with stable sub numbers.

    ****

    Also to the guy who said they haven't announced china day 1 sales....you'll be waiting a pretty long time if you dont know Chinese players dont buy the game. They simply buy access time and pay a fraction of the cost. the only ones that buy it have to play on taiwan or korea servers.
    Last edited by phenix; 2012-12-19 at 09:57 PM.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Actually, I've bought 4 copies of LK, 4 copies of Cata, and 4 copies of MOP. It's already been explained about their marketing timing, and in FACT Cata AND LK BOTH have been discounted... in fact... you can buy vanilla, BC AND LK COMBINED... FOR A GRAND TOTAL OF 5$... SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE A FUCKING DISCOUNT... What say you?
    Whoa internet tough guy, take a breath and relax. Now maybe you misunderstood what I said. When I said Wrath/Cata weren't discounted like MoP, I meant at release, not that they were never discounted ever. I know you talked about the marketing behind the discount, my point is why if the last 2 expansions did so well during the holiday season at full price would MoP need to be discounted as much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Actually, they dont even have to report those, not EVER. They are legally obligated to cover income in their earnings calls, they are in no way obligated to provide subscription numbers, but they DO provide them, as a courtesy. Sadly, folks use that number to extrapolate all kinds of doomsaying conspiracy horseshit theories... You aren't one of those people are you? Didn't think so.
    I never said WoW was dying, even in a previous post on this thread I said that. But it's funny that every time the game is doing well they gladly flaunt numbers whether it's shattering 1st day sales, 12/11.5 million subs hit, or great first month sales of an expansion. But if the numbers aren't at or above their expectations, we only see them at quarterly reports like the last couple years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Wait, you are backtracking, cant stand on the ground you laid out earlier? hmmmm.
    Last time I checked 6 days are less than 9 days, so I'm still not wrong. Plus we got more detailed figures from the Cata, like day 1 sales . I was just retorting that it wasn't as big a gap as I recalled but I'm definitely not backtracking.

    My whole point was usually when wow numbers were good people didn't need to ask because Blizzard would let us know. I'm not saying the game is dying but I do doubt that the game is thriving like a few years ago either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  20. #380
    Okay for sure the subs have to go up now. Many Diablo 3 players are getting free copies of WoW along with 30 days. This along with the current deals going on with MoP should easily boost the 4th quarter numbers.

    Love when they do this especially near the end of a quarter.

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