The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[gynshon]

out of curiousity why are you going for 4800 haste. is it 14 energy/s?

Not going for 4800 specifically, it is just how my reforges work out. I am also testing leaving the dodge untouched stat-wise on my shoulders for a night or two.

[Kisho]

Ah okay. Not sure how I missed that. >-> derp.

So then I guess imy next question is with that out of the way is dual wield vs 2h still down to personal preference?

Mostly, yeah.

[Deleted]

had some trouble last week on sha (25 normal), I'm considerably behind on gear (alt) but the problem I had was being destroyed by thrash, most of them I could survive by avoiding something (parry or dodging), always had shuffle and elusive up, fort brew / dampen harm where available. Problem came when I DIDN'T avoid a melee hit. I just died. 8min through the fight and went from 95% to dead in a thrash. In this situation I guess having extra haste / crit / agi really does nothing. Is it worth regearing towards mastery / stam to surivive? The alternative was to have an organised external CD chain for me - but that seems a touch excessive when we could just use any other tanking class and be fine.

Was thinking of just swapping some enchants to stam (shoulders and legs) and gemming stam / mastery instead of agi / haste

[Promdates]

No. There isn't really a need to enchant/gem/reforge for mastery/stamina. You would be slightly under-geared for the encounter. If you're finding yourself having issues surviving, perhaps going for a little more stamina would be fine. You are already using back and chest stamina enchants, using shoulder/legs would actually lower your important stats more. As you get better gear, you'll find you won't need the stamina/mastery enchants much anymore.

[Kisho]

Actually crit is probably the most important stat for tanking Sha of Fear, so long as you have enough haste to keep Shuffle up 100% of the time whilst tanking him.

More crit means more EB stacks, which in turn means you can use EB for every single Thrash. It's not uncommon for me to just avoid every Thrash strike, or at least 2 out of 3.

Quick (and potentially sloppy) math to prove point: With shuffle and EB up, I have about 75% avoidance. This means a 25% chance to be hit by 1 attack. To be hit by 2, it's 25% * 25% = 6.25%. To be hit by all 3, it's 6.25% * 25% = 1.5625%.

I'm fairly certain that's how you figure it out, at any rate. Suffice to say, avoidance is king for Sha. You can also use Dampen Harm or Fortifying Brew for those moments when you don't have any EB stacks.

Bear in mind that you don't need a lot of stacks for each Thrash. Watch for the buff to go up, use EB. Even if you only have 2-3 stacks it'll work.

This honestly hasn't been an issue for me. Keep Shuffle up, use EB every time, you won't get hit by all 3 attacks.

[SurrealNight]

Had to check but looks like Sha hits as hard on 10m vs 25m (about 175k)so yeah what Kisho said applies perfectly. I have 500k HP raid buffed and forging into crit a bit and 99% of the time have EB up w/ 3+ stacks for every Thrash. Also when you first come back you should have 15 stacks from the platform which will cover the first two Thrash anyways. If you get unlucky and EB isn't up for a Thrash that is what I save Fort Brew / Dampen Harm for.

I have to guess it's with your EB timing Sha has yet to kill me a single time (Deadly reach cause DPS platform failed doesn't count =P). Even if your really undergeared at worst you should be hit for 350k so just make sure healers have you above that point for each thrash.

[Deleted]

dont forget your druid, symbiose u and gives u an extra OH SHIT button

[Promdates]

Yeah, but that other oh shit button comes at a cost of 2 chi.

[Alucin]

Might be worth a note to say don't try to use dbm timers for thrash.
I was using that for a while, not realising that I was missing when he actually puts the buff on himself. can very easily screw you up since sometimes I was using eb at only 3 stacks as that was all I had up. Once he actually has the buff he doesn't consume it for a second or two. With checking your logs and seeing if you actually copped all 3. It's quite unlikely as kisho showed, but it still can happen. I didn't check your gear but the tier 2 piece bonus is very good.

Also make sure you don't still have guard glyphed from lei shi. I hear some people do that.

[Chuupag]

Quick (and potentially sloppy) math to prove point: With shuffle and EB up, I have about 75% avoidance. This means a 25% chance to be hit by 1 attack. To be hit by 2, it's 25% * 25% = 6.25%. To be hit by all 3, it's 6.25% * 25% = 1.5625%.

I'm fairly certain that's how you figure it out, at any rate. Suffice to say, avoidance is king for Sha. You can also use Dampen Harm or Fortifying Brew for those moments when you don't have any EB stacks.

Bear in mind that you don't need a lot of stacks for each Thrash. Watch for the buff to go up, use EB. Even if you only have 2-3 stacks it'll work.

This honestly hasn't been an issue for me. Keep Shuffle up, use EB every time, you won't get hit by all 3 attacks.

You actually have 9% less avoidance on raid bosses than your character sheet says due to avoidance depression. Your math is correct however, but it's more like 5% of getting hit by all 3 and 25% chance to avoid all 3 if you have both stagger and EB up.

[Deleted]

problem is when that 5% chance of getting hit by all 3 happens, and you die. I'd rather get hit by 3 more often but survive it.

[The Madgod]

problem is when that 5% chance of getting hit by all 3 happens, and you die. I'd rather get hit by 3 more often but survive it.

You said you're having trouble on Sha, though. That idealism may be why.

I do what everyone else is telling you to do and the only times I die is if my healer's completely neglecting me, I lag really badly and therefore can't actually put up EB, or if the other tank's platform group is slow and I die due to no tank being in the circle.

Just saying, this works. Whatever you're doing apparently isn't, for whatever reason. Give it a shot, and if you're still dying, then we can rule that out and look at other factors.

I'll typically go down to 1/3 of my health if I mess up a thrash. Your character, unbuffed, according to the armory, has about 20k less health than my monk. You'd need a significant amount of stamina to get to where I'm at, and to do that you would have to sacrifice a LOT of other stats to get there, and that would mean your healer would have to do significantly more healing to keep you alive.

[Kisho]

You actually have 9% less avoidance on raid bosses than your character sheet says due to avoidance depression. Your math is correct however, but it's more like 5% of getting hit by all 3 and 25% chance to avoid all 3 if you have both stagger and EB up.

I figured there'd be something like that, yeah. Thanks for the correction. I understand the theory, but there's always some forgotten thing that trips me up, haha.

[Deleted]

problem is when that 5% chance of getting hit by all 3 happens, and you die. I'd rather get hit by 3 more often but survive it.

Despite of what a lot of people are saying here, there is nothing wrong with trying out a sta/mastery build. Specially in scenarios you just described.
If you need CD chains on you to stay alive and the other tank doesn't, then your gear / build is not working and hurting your teams progression so why not just try it out. Plenty of monks are already going sta/mastery, in reality you don't need more then ~1750 haste to have a 100% shuffle uptime and still have plenty of chi to get rid of heavy / normal staggers. Together with a strong healthpool the chance you'll be instagibbed is next to nothing.

cheers,
Xarmon

[Chuupag]

Despite of what a lot of people are saying here, there is nothing wrong with trying out a sta/mastery build. Specially in scenarios you just described.
If you need CD chains on you to stay alive and the other tank doesn't, then your gear / build is not working and hurting your teams progression so why not just try it out. Plenty of monks are already going sta/mastery, in reality you don't need more then ~1750 haste to have a 100% shuffle uptime and still have plenty of chi to get rid of heavy / normal staggers. Together with a strong healthpool the chance you'll be instagibbed is next to nothing.

cheers,
Xarmon

I'm all for low haste builds...but 1750 seems a bit low even for my taste. I'm at about 2.5k haste with Ascension and 31.5% crit unbuffed, and on some fights I'm scrounging for chi to clear a heavy stagger. But other fights I only have maybe 20 seconds of moderate stagger all fight. Some builds are better suited for some fights and the smart BrM will have many trinkets and poss whole second sets of gear to accomplish what they need. I am keeping all pieces I upgraded from and all extras from shitty coin rolls to make up an effective health set.

[Enosh]

Might be worth a note to say don't try to use dbm timers for thrash.
I was using that for a while, not realising that I was missing when he actually puts the buff on himself. can very easily screw you up since sometimes I was using eb at only 3 stacks as that was all I had up. Once he actually has the buff he doesn't consume it for a second or two.

not a monk tank, was just reading here, but still wanted to say this since it might help out someone

like he said, don't look at the dbm timers for thrash, he doesn't always use it when the warning comes, especially if he is in the middle of a normal hit or doing breath of fear, look for a blue thingy that forms around his right arm, that's the trash
made my life a lot easier once I figured that one out

[SurrealNight]

You actually have 9% less avoidance on raid bosses than your character sheet says due to avoidance depression. Your math is correct however, but it's more like 5% of getting hit by all 3 and 25% chance to avoid all 3 if you have both stagger and EB up.

Explain? I have Elvui displaying my current total avoidance and it peaks at 80% with EB up is that accurate?

[Chuupag]

Explain? I have Elvui displaying my current total avoidance and it peaks at 80% with EB up is that accurate?

There has always been avoidance depression against opponents of higher level. For MoP they changed the formula(as they did every formula) to be simpler. It's a flat 1.5% per level difference for both dodge and parry. So a raid boss being 3 levels higher negates 4.5% dodge and 4.5% parry. It doesn't show up on your character sheet...which is probably what your addon is going off of.

[Promdates]

ElvUI automatically adjusts your avoidance depending on the character level that you're targeting. If you're targeting nothing, it will show the paperdoll avoidance. If you target a raid boss (+3 levels), it should adjust accordingly.

[SurrealNight]

ElvUI automatically adjusts your avoidance depending on the character level that you're targeting. If you're targeting nothing, it will show the paperdoll avoidance. If you target a raid boss (+3 levels), it should adjust accordingly.

Will double check that tonight on some dummies. If that is the case I have 80% avoidance vs Thrash and I don't even have my 2P yet which is pretty beast =P Thanks for the info Chuupag I forgot about that.