Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Deleted]

Compared to other classes, not many big changes. No extremely large nerfs, just us being brought in line.

In line with what, the seabed? Last I checked our arena representation was terrible, unless things have changed since then.

PVE wise we're absolutely fine, I can deal with a GOSAC nerf.

But in pvp our viability seemed to entirely be based on bloodfear, we've lost that, had a few pve nerfs bleed over and lost our blanket silence.

[MisterSoup]

GoSac nerfed from 50% to 45% = 10% nerf, not only 5%.
Mathematics is an exact science.

You're pretty much entirely wrong.

The direct damage of Haunt, MG and Drain Soul will go down by 5%.

The damage of the forced ticks from MG will effectively drop by 2.5% (50% modified by GoSac to 75% dot damage, down to 50% modified by GoSac to 72.5%)

The damage of forced ticks from Drain Soul will effectively drop by 7.5% (150% modified by GoSac to 225% dot damage, down to 150% modified by GoSac to 217.5%)

Out of roughly 38.5% (this comes from the damage percentage of SimC's t14 BiS Affliction parse) of our damage coming from the forced ticks of dots through MG and from MG itself, this is only a loss of 1.9% of our damage, give or take.

Out of roughly 11.1% (again, this coming from the t14 BiS Aff SimC parse) of our damage dealt coming from Drain Soul and its forces ticks, this is only a loss of .7% of our total damage done.

Haunt casts make up for about 9% of our damage done (once again, SimC parse), and we'll only lose .4% of our damage from the GoSac nerf in trade.

So in total, we're only losing 3.1% of our total SINGLE TARGET damage done, and multidotting will still remain equally as strong as before. losing 3.1% of its effectiveness brings GoSac about in line with GoSup, and might make choosing between the two more of a personal/situational choice rather than a forced one.

Mathematics is an exact science, you know.

[Biruta]

You're pretty much entirely wrong.

The direct damage of Haunt, MG and Drain Soul will go down by 5%.

The damage of the forced ticks from MG will effectively drop by 2.5% (50% modified by GoSac to 75% dot damage, down to 50% modified by GoSac to 72.5%)

The damage of forced ticks from Drain Soul will effectively drop by 7.5% (150% modified by GoSac to 225% dot damage, down to 150% modified by GoSac to 217.5%)

Out of roughly 38.5% (this comes from the damage percentage of SimC's t14 BiS Affliction parse) of our damage coming from the forced ticks of dots through MG and from MG itself, this is only a loss of 1.9% of our damage, give or take.

Out of roughly 11.1% (again, this coming from the t14 BiS Aff SimC parse) of our damage dealt coming from Drain Soul and its forces ticks, this is only a loss of .7% of our total damage done.

Haunt casts make up for about 9% of our damage done (once again, SimC parse), and we'll only lose .4% of our damage from the GoSac nerf in trade.

So in total, we're only losing 3.1% of our total SINGLE TARGET damage done, and multidotting will still remain equally as strong as before. losing 3.1% of its effectiveness brings GoSac about in line with GoSup, and might make choosing between the two more of a personal/situational choice rather than a forced one.

Mathematics is an exact science, you know.

GoSac was 50%, now it's 45% = 10% GoSac nerf ( I said GoSac nerf)
Pure mathematics.
The final result may be different, but GoSac was nerfed in 10%, just it.

[Regen]

GoSac was 50%, now it's 45% = 10% GoSac nerf ( I said GoSac nerf)
Pure mathematics.
The final result may be different, but GoSac was nerfed in 10%, just it.

Again, no. There is a 10% difference between the number 50 and the number 45, but 50% to 45% is a difference of 5%.

[Deleted]

Again, no. There is a 10% difference between the number 50 and the number 45, but 50% to 45% is a difference of 5%.

I don't know if this works the same in english, but in french this is a difference of 5 points, not 5%.
(edit : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage_point)

[wholol]

how can no one be worried about the counterspell/ spell lock nerf, it was demolished, the mechanics were that way since vanilla and now blizzard gets one of their whims and decides it's not good, if it doesn't silence they should at least bring it on par with other interrupts' cooldown, like kick / pummel etc, it's a ranged interrupt so I don't see why it should still have such a high cd, besides that, sac pact changes are so demolishing most people aren't worrying about it enough, 25% hp instead of 50% is a 50% nerf to the shield itself, so instead of a 200k shield ~ as affliction using an observer it will be 100k hp, which is worth NOTHING. barely a moments' relief as it is now, I shudder at the thought of how fast it will go down in 5.2 .

Blood fear change is stupid imo, if a pet hits you while u have it up , gg you feared a pet, didn't get the melee off your back and STILL used 20% of your hp for nothing, pro design change ... really.

[jason1975]

You're pretty much entirely wrong.

The direct damage of Haunt, MG and Drain Soul will go down by 5%.

The damage of the forced ticks from MG will effectively drop by 2.5% (50% modified by GoSac to 75% dot damage, down to 50% modified by GoSac to 72.5%)

The damage of forced ticks from Drain Soul will effectively drop by 7.5% (150% modified by GoSac to 225% dot damage, down to 150% modified by GoSac to 217.5%)

Out of roughly 38.5% (this comes from the damage percentage of SimC's t14 BiS Affliction parse) of our damage coming from the forced ticks of dots through MG and from MG itself, this is only a loss of 1.9% of our damage, give or take.

Out of roughly 11.1% (again, this coming from the t14 BiS Aff SimC parse) of our damage dealt coming from Drain Soul and its forces ticks, this is only a loss of .7% of our total damage done.

Haunt casts make up for about 9% of our damage done (once again, SimC parse), and we'll only lose .4% of our damage from the GoSac nerf in trade.

So in total, we're only losing 3.1% of our total SINGLE TARGET damage done, and multidotting will still remain equally as strong as before. losing 3.1% of its effectiveness brings GoSac about in line with GoSup, and might make choosing between the two more of a personal/situational choice rather than a forced one.

Mathematics is an exact science, you know.

What a pointless argument. You're both right.

GoSac has been nerfed 10%, and the overall impact of that is likely to be about a 3% DPS decrease.

[Jessicka]

how can no one be worried about the counterspell/ spell lock nerf, it was demolished, the mechanics were that way since vanilla and now blizzard gets one of their whims and decides it's not good, if it doesn't silence they should at least bring it on par with other interrupts' cooldown, like kick / pummel etc, it's a ranged interrupt so I don't see why it should still have such a high cd, besides that, sac pact changes are so demolishing most people aren't worrying about it enough, 25% hp instead of 50% is a 50% nerf to the shield itself, so instead of a 200k shield ~ as affliction using an observer it will be 100k hp, which is worth NOTHING. barely a moments' relief as it is now, I shudder at the thought of how fast it will go down in 5.2 .

Blood fear change is stupid imo, if a pet hits you while u have it up , gg you feared a pet, didn't get the melee off your back and STILL used 20% of your hp for nothing, pro design change ... really.

Not worried since there is overall too much CC in the game. The blanket silence rewarded missing an interrupt and punished a successful fake cast.

The change to Blood Fear actually looks like its trying to do what Cataclysm failed to. It should be a horror effect though and have 3-4 charges.

[MisterSoup]

What a pointless argument. You're both right.

GoSac has been nerfed 10%, and the overall impact of that is likely to be about a 3% DPS decrease.

Thank you for your valuable insight into the topic at hand. Your wit and intellect have brought incredible understanding and meaning to the discussion.

[demonik]

Not worried since there is overall too much CC in the game. The blanket silence rewarded missing an interrupt and punished a successful fake cast.

The change to Blood Fear actually looks like its trying to do what Cataclysm failed to. It should be a horror effect though and have 3-4 charges.

yeah if blood fear was a horror effect instead of fear and had more than 1 charge that would make it pretty awesome.....maybe just a little op but it would be better than the crap talent they made blood fear now

[Shagina]

Just figured I'd drop the napkin math here for Ember Tap pre and post glyph, if anyone is interested. x is your current level of mastery (42,39% is written as 1,4239 for instance) and h is how much you will be healed for.
Pre glyph:
16,5*x=h

Post glyph:
24,75*x=h

A 40% heal (post glyph) will require around 61,62% mastery, a 45% heal will require around 81,82% mastery.

[Resentful]

Just figured I'd drop the napkin math here for Ember Tap pre and post glyph, if anyone is interested. x is your current level of mastery (42,39% is written as 1,4239 for instance) and h is how much you will be healed for.
Pre glyph:
16,5*x=h

Post glyph:
24,75*x=h

A 40% heal (post glyph) will require around 61,62% mastery, a 45% heal will require around 81,82% mastery.

Regardless It's one of the most powerful defensive healing in game granted It's a costly resource.

[Zinnin]

I think the current effect for Blood Fear now might be slightly UP compared to the other talents in that tier, but if it is it is only because I think that the cost is too high. But really Burning Rush has almost zero use in PvP and Unbound Will is just dangerous to use a lot of the time.

The fel hunter interrupt change make sense if they are making an effort to reduce the power of CC's that you can do nothing about, and as long as changes like that are made across the board I am fine with it. If it turns out a lot of classes end up, for whatever reason, retaining their instant CC's I would be pretty upset.

The GoSac change make sense as well, almost no one who plays Destro or Afflic was ever using anything else besides GoSac so hopefully this gives us more options.

Overall I'm curious on where DPS balance is going though, for the longest time I thought that Affliction was just too high, and needed to be brought down a bit, however they just went and buffed Arcane up to basically the same point Affliction is at (maybe even stronger). As Demo I'm starting to see many specs just out scaling me, and I'm worried that instead of DPS buffs for Destro \ Demo we are just going to see changes to lower burst which people in forums are still complaining about.

I cannont see Glyph of Ember Tap going live, in BG's specifically destro is nearly unkillable because your ember generation is so high. I can see Glyph of Drain life going live though, right now drain life is absolute shit compared to what some other classes have.

It will be an interesting PTR cycle.

[Deleted]

I really don't understand why anyone can complain about the 3rd highest DPS spec being nerfed in the talents that are no brainers... I play a warlock as my only high level character.

[Deleted]

I really don't understand why anyone can complain about the 3rd highest DPS spec being nerfed in the talents that are no brainers... I play a warlock as my only high level character.

Not everything is about PVE bro

[dinouille]

So they remove blanket silence, blood fear and put the final blow on enfeeblement without compensating. Meanwhile they throw buffs at rogues again. How can they not see that rogues have WAY more utility than warlocks as it is? I don't understand how they can get so much more love when both have been equally bad (besides the short time demo was the shit). Didn't locks complain enough or what's up with this? I'm glad I don't PvP on my toon.

GoSac changes seems fine. They've been doing their best to try avoid cookie cutter builds so this is good. Same with soul shard/burning ember glyphs if they become baseline.

I did expect some bigger nerfs for Affli's damage output. Maybe I've been overestimating the spec.

I play rogue AND warlocks

atm warlocks are juste awesome compare to rogue honestly

yeah they are not god against other, but against rogue, no doubt that i chose my lock ...

[pokeadott]

Not worried since there is overall too much CC in the game. The blanket silence rewarded missing an interrupt and punished a successful fake cast.

The blanket silence is the only part of the ability that makes it good. This goes for CS too. The only spells I was definitively looking to interrupt these days were: Frost Bomb (not anymore tho), and the occasional Restoclone/Hex if they were going to start/continue a massive CC chain. 90% of the time, I'm blanketing to prevent instant burst (Mage, Demo lock, etc) or blanketting to prevent instant heals during a kill combo on the healer or the dps. GL killing a healer as destro now w/o relying 100% on your partner for CC (only applies to destro cause demo goes FG/WG and Aff is luls dead still).

Will probably start messing around with the succy sac and see if I can get less bad with landing whiplash (really wish it was a slightly more potent knockback alla stormphoon tho :/, pain to use). Destro is going to be such a weird spec - amazing survivability, terrible killing ability, decent sustained dmg. Random.

For reference, we have now lost 6 seconds of healer lockdown from the previous expansions (Coil + Spell Lock). I can't begin to count the number of my arena kills that have come off comboing those 2 abilities. We have fallen so far from cata, it's getting silly.

[Deleted]

I play rogue AND warlocks

atm warlocks are juste awesome compare to rogue honestly

yeah they are not god against other, but against rogue, no doubt that i chose my lock ...

ATM is the important word. This discussion is about warlocks in 5.2 so everything about them right now is irrelevant

[Resentful]

I may go back to my rogue I don't know just the green fire is the only thing keeping me from doing that lol

[Deleted]

I may go back to my rogue I don't know just the green fire is the only thing keeping me from doing that lol

Green fire means nothing to me. I would prefer a questline that makes us good in pvp instead of shooting useless green fire out of our ass.
As affliction i dont even use green fire except for when i throw the occasional rain of fire. "Totally worth it"