Football Season 2012/2013

[Northern Goblin]

Merry Christmas Aston Villa.

Also any Swansea fan complaining about the referee ruling in United's favour forgets too quickly that you got away with a penalty for blatent handball.

[Deleted]

Well he is a defender in his own box, last time I checked defenders are meant to clear the ball. From the initial reaction RVP went mad with rage he got up instantly and was so desperate to get at Williams that he slipped in the process. Williams did not initially react, or did but passivley. Then RVP goes and sticks the nutt in, says some nasty shit and then we have a flair up. At the ground I couldn't for the life of me work out what had happened.

The linesman infront of me was shocking, and as for you not agreeing with the refereeing decisions and saying that they were not in manchesters defense. We had a corner from a shot on the bar that was no where near a Swans player. Countless descisions that were inconclusive but the benefit of the doubt was ALWAYS given to manchester Utd. Also players not being cautioned for tackles that were bad such as Giggs' where the ref pulled him over and told him that he went through him.

As for the ref in Manchester united's favour card getting played so much, well there is no smoke without fire.

Strange how you don't mention the wrestling match Chico Flores thought he was in with Van Persie just before Michu's goal? And yes, the referee all around did have an awful game.
But as for Fergie saying he could have killed him. It is certainly possible from a strong blow to the back of the head when you aren't expecting it, very easy to get whiplash or any other such injury, RvP could've been badly injured after that, and as for him "slipping" if you watched it, you would see that Chico Flores stuck a foot out and tripped him over.
I'm not saying that Williams went out to try and hurt RvP with that kick, but a professional footballer could certainly have hit the ball a different way or hit it over RvP's head, that kick was straight into his head and he didn't look apologetic at all, if you truly did that by accident you would try and apologise straight away, but when Van Persie got up, the first thing Williams did was to start shouting at him, doesn't seem very apologetic to me.
But I guess that's just my opinion, the referee was certainly not in favour of United by any means, or we would've gotten a penalty for the handball on the line.

[Deleted]

Strange how you don't mention the wrestling match Chico Flores thought he was in with Van Persie just before Michu's goal? And yes, the referee all around did have an awful game.
But as for Fergie saying he could have killed him. It is certainly possible from a strong blow to the back of the head when you aren't expecting it, very easy to get whiplash or any other such injury, RvP could've been badly injured after that, and as for him "slipping" if you watched it, you would see that Chico Flores stuck a foot out and tripped him over.
I'm not saying that Williams went out to try and hurt RvP with that kick, but a professional footballer could certainly have hit the ball a different way or hit it over RvP's head, that kick was straight into his head and he didn't look apologetic at all, if you truly did that by accident you would try and apologise straight away, but when Van Persie got up, the first thing Williams did was to start shouting at him, doesn't seem very apologetic to me.
But I guess that's just my opinion, the referee was certainly not in favour of United by any means, or we would've gotten a penalty for the handball on the line.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20833253, seen the alledged foul on RVP 23 seconds before Michu's goal. Personally I think he gets a touch on the ball. A centre forward has to be stronger holding the ball up.

I can't understand where you are coming from though, Van Persie plays with back to goal a lot he invites the defender to come at him and then tries to turn the defender. A defender will always come in strong in that situation (on their feet). The foul was actually given because the player who supposedly fouled him was a winger not Chico. Fact is Van Persie is looking for that contact so he can try and beat his man.

Bottom line is this, you play the whistle.

---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 10:15 PM ----------

Merry Christmas Aston Villa.

Also any Swansea fan complaining about the referee ruling in United's favour forgets too quickly that you got away with a penalty for blatent handball.

Think you need to understand what handball is. Then again you are a Manchester United fan so your interpritation can be what suits you. Only two incidents that were possibly contestable involved our left back. Neither time did the player make a motion with the arm towards the ball, and if the arm wasn't there then it would have struck the torso.

I think you are clutching at straws if you believe you should have got a penalty. Watch MotD later.

BTW Cumbria and Staffordshire have more local teams.

---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 10:20 PM ----------

I thought they were both going to get red for their reactions after the incident, not because he kicked the ball. As I said, I couldn't really tell if it was intentional or not, so no need to quote me with a 'Here we go again' attitude.

Either way he kicked the ball hard and it hit RvP in the back/left side of the head hard, it has sod all to do with a "cotton wool wrapped forward" as you like to put it, he had every right to be pissed off. However as I've stated before, while footballers are only human beings, they are also idols and professionals and need to learn to keep any tempers under control.

You claim it wasn't intentional, Uggz claims it was, I personally don't know.

I agree that the refereeing was poor, but I don't agree about the claims (yet again) that it was in Manchester United's favor. Honestly that card gets played so much it's torn, bent and as floppy as wet paper.

Edit:



Hard to see if he is looking at the ball or at Van Persie when he goes to kick it, hence why I can't decide if I think it was intentional or not. Either way you're not gonna come tell me he didn't kick it hard enough for it to hurt at least a bit.

Comes off the outside of his foot, don't think he meant it. He is making the body movement to cick the ball as Van Persie hits the floor, I think it happens way too fast to be intentional remember that gif is slowed down. We are talking less than a second.

[Deleted]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20833253, seen the alledged foul on RVP 23 seconds before Michu's goal. Personally I think he gets a touch on the ball. A centre forward has to be stronger holding the ball up.

I can't understand where you are coming from though, Van Persie plays with back to goal a lot he invites the defender to come at him and then tries to turn the defender. A defender will always come in strong in that situation (on their feet). The foul was actually given because the player who supposedly fouled him was a winger not Chico. Fact is Van Persie is looking for that contact so he can try and beat his man.

Bottom line is this, you play the whistle.[COLOR="red"]

You're talking about two separate incidents as if they were one thing.
The foul just before Michu's goal was by Chico, he had his arms round him and dragged him to the ground, that's nothing to do with being strong, you can push people off the ball, you cannot pull people off the ball, there's a large difference.
And I wasn't talking about the actual foul before the incident regarding Williams, I'm talking about when RvP gets up and goes to get at Williams, Chico lifts his foot up and trips him, but by your previous statements, you seem to be adept at avoiding the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApuRHCNrgEs 16 seconds in, you can clearly see Chico trips RvP.
Look at William's body language too, that doesn't look like he was going to clear it, the whistle went a good second or two before he kicked the ball.

[Northern Goblin]

Think you need to understand what handball is. Then again you are a Manchester United fan so your interpritation can be what suits you. Only two incidents that were possibly contestable involved our left back. Neither time did the player make a motion with the arm towards the ball, and if the arm wasn't there then it would have struck the torso.

And your interpretation is clearly whatever suits you, the shot that was cleared off the line by Young was a clear contact by Davies' arm.

BTW Cumbria and Staffordshire have more local teams.

I'm aware, I've seen Barrow play a few times, but I'm not going to stop following United because I no longer live in Salford. The glory supporter argument is a terrible one to make, especially when you don't know who you're making it of.

Van Persie is down before he even begins to pull back his leg to boot it. Watch it in real time, I'm not going to say it was intentional, but I don't think you can rule it as an accident either. Shame really because it's overwriting what was an excellent game of football.

[koodledrum]

I think the whole "it could have killed him or broke his neck" statement was a bit meladramatic from Fergie, but RVP will be lucky if he doesn't have a concussion after that, the guy who kicked it will receive a suspension for sure!

On "glory supporters" I'm sorry, but lets be honest there are two types of United supporter, there's the "SUPPORTER" who will go to games & is a genuine type then there's the "supporter" who likes Man United because they've been the biggest team in England for 20 years, couldn't point to Manchester on a map let alone have been anywhere near it. United are by far and away the worst culprits for that sort of supporter, much as some will deny it, there's a majority of people support Manchester United as much as a fashion accessory as opposed to actually giving a shit about the club, that's not the clubs fault ofcourse, but lets be fair here if they were mid-table crap you wouldn't see those people giving a damn about them. Sorry thing is over the last 2-3 years we're seeing an increase in the City varient of the same in the same way that 10 years ago we saw all the Arsenal shirts around & after that all the Chelski shirts!

I always laugh when people point out that I don't support my "local" teams either by birth (Motherwell & Hamilton Academical) or where I live (Kilmarnock, Ayr United) - truth is I was brought up living above a Rangers player, around Rangers supporters & have been as rabid a fan as long as I can remember! (I'm also always quick to point out I only live in Ayrshire, the place itself is a redneck shitehole which I'd happily watch being wiped off the map - the only good thing about Ayrshire is the M77 the fuck out of it!)

[Northern Goblin]

Oh I don't deny there aren't Glory supporters. But just because someone doesn't live a stone's throw from Old Trafford for the moment in their life you know them doesn't mean they're a Glory Supporter.

I was raised on United, my family has been going since the days of all stand stadiums. My Dad and his older brothers grew up watching the Babes and the Red Devils, I didn't get bedtime stories, I got my dad telling me about watching Best, Law and Charlton. I know kids who were Liverpool supporters up until around 96/97, some went United, some went Arsenal, some went Chelsea a few years later. Then suddenly people I grew up with as a kid were suddenly "Life time City supporters" a couple of years ago.

There are fickle people in every big club, success bring followers, and United have a phenomenal amount.


Infact, this exact discussion held with friends when I was 8 years old is why my second team is Yeovil Town and has been for 18 years now. Come on you Glovers.

[Deleted]

were you lot watching the same game? van persie was never fouled before the swansea goal & as for fergie saying he could have been killed, that is typical fergie bs. up the owls!!

[Nerph-]

You can call me a glory supporter if you want, I didn't live near Manchester (lived in Reading) but Manchester United was the only team I supported as a kid, had nothing to do with my family as none of them were interested in football, so I honestly don't know why (and by my "kid" years we're talking about the early 90's) I chose to support United. All I remember is a lot of my kid friends supported Liverpool. I then had a period during my teenage years that I had a lot of other stuff on my mind and football kinda slipped away for a bit. So yeah, I'm a glory supporter if you will, but at the same time I don't care, United is the only team I've ever supported.

As for the incident, I see both parties have an argument and I can't honestly decide if I think it was intentional or not.

And as for Fergie's comment, it is a tad melodramatic, "could have been killed" is a bit over the top, he could have maybe gotten a concussion from it (I remember 2 friends tripping me once and I fell on the back of my head and I was out for a good 10 seconds), but being killed? I don't think so.

[koodledrum]

only way I can see him being in any mortal danger is if the player follows through and boots him in the head, since I have only seen the gif above I can't see the distance between foot & head, I tend to believe that it wasn't aimed at RVP though, that's one of those freakish things which would only happen like that, he'll get suspended for it though because of the incident.

[Geomatician]

I think the whole "it could have killed him or broke his neck" statement was a bit meladramatic from Fergie, but RVP will be lucky if he doesn't have a concussion after that, the guy who kicked it will receive a suspension for sure!

There wouldn't be too many defenders left around if people started getting suspensions for accidentally kicking a ball against an opposition player when clearing the ball.

Why the hell would Ashley Williams intentionally kick a ball at RVP's head so close to his own goal? That ball could have went anywhere. What's Williams to know that it won't ricochet off RVP and catch his goalkeeper off guard and land in the goal? Logically thinking that in no way was intentional whatsoever.

Expected nothing short than that utter ridiculous comment by fergie. He wouldn't have mentioned it if utd had won. Always been the same. He was worked up after drawing.

Bloody glad he did though. Ashley Williams has arguably been the best CB in the league this season. Utd need a new centre half and now I don't believe he'd be interested in working under fergie after those comments. Good stuff.

[Northern Goblin]

Why the hell would Ashley Williams intentionally kick a ball at RVP's head so close to his own goal? That ball could have went anywhere. What's Williams to know that it won't ricochet off RVP and catch his goalkeeper off guard and land in the goal? Logically thinking that in no way was intentional whatsoever.

Whistle was blown before he even hooked back his leg to kick it, it was booted in frustration. What can't be proven was if he intended the direction, that's the debate issue.

Also Turkey/Brazil, World Cup 2002. Who said you can't get sent off for booting a ball at someone? (and that one was an absolute joke of a situation.)

[koodledrum]

It's the sort of thing (smashing the ball away in frustration) that happens in every match, that's what leads me to believe he didn't mean it - if he did mean it he shouldn't be playing in defense anyway, stick that boy up front and watch the goals roll in! Because of the fact it's impossible to tell if he meant it or not (get him on Jeremy Kyle!!) he'll probably get a 1 game suspension for misconduct for kicking the ball away because it skelped the player in the back of the head, then that way they're punishing him for the act but not attempting to say he meant it.

Wasn't Turkey/Brazil 2002 the one where Rivaldo went down as if he'd been shot in the face despite the fact the ball hit his stomach?

[Geomatician]

It's the sort of thing (smashing the ball away in frustration) that happens in every match, that's what leads me to believe he didn't mean it - if he did mean it he shouldn't be playing in defense anyway, stick that boy up front and watch the goals roll in! Because of the fact it's impossible to tell if he meant it or not (get him on Jeremy Kyle!!) he'll probably get a 1 game suspension for misconduct for kicking the ball away because it skelped the player in the back of the head, then that way they're punishing him for the act but not attempting to say he meant it.

Wasn't Turkey/Brazil 2002 the one where Rivaldo went down as if he'd been shot in the face despite the fact the ball hit his stomach?

It was. So wasn't really a good example. Sent off for play acting has nothing to do with kicking a ball at someone.

I think people should give players a little bit more integrity than what's been shown. He said he accidentally hit him with it. Ferguson purely intended to take attention away from his team and focus on that one incident. Worked perfectly for him as that's all that people are talking about. He does it a lot.

Williams got a yellow card right? Nothing should be done about it then. Completely blown out of proportion.

Also just seen the quote where Williams said he kicked it away in frustration. As I said people should give players a little more integrity. Not everyone does things with malicious intent.

[koodledrum]

I don't believe Fergie was trying to deflect attention (he openly admitted that he was disappointed at dropping the points and that these were games he expects to win), I believe he was going into battle to protect his players which is something that regardless as to your opinion of the man, he does do rather well - even if sometimes (as in this case) he goes in like a bull in a china shop! I think if he'd been asked about it this morning he'd probably have given a more measured answer but well, that's why they hold post match interviews because it would be boring if they allowed managers to think of their response to questions overnight!

[Deleted]

twistedsista;19553586]were you lot watching the same game? van persie was never fouled before the swansea goal & as for fergie saying he could have been killed, that is typical fergie bs. up the owls!!

Don't say that here! Its red spec central. There was blatent handballs (From the Fergie rule book).

I don't think people here are as objective as they think they are. I am as biast as the day is long but seeing challenges on a football field, last time i checked football was a contact sport. I bet Ferguson knows the game from growing up in Govan, shame he wasn't as outspoken when Roy Kean ended Bust career. Pot kettle black and all that.

As for Fengore, fair enough I have a good friend who is from a family of Utd supporters. The father used to get the bus to Old Trafford as a kid and they grew up following them. Fact is they have supporters everywhere but IMO its not the same.

The way of the plastic is a thing that baffles me. I remember going to St James Park under the Robson era with champions league football, I supported Newcastle and have a soft spot for them. The feeling was never the same. We are currently a Premier League team, and its a really nice thing watching this calibre of player but I sometimes miss the football league for the tribal passion of the fans. Going to away games in Hartlepool, Carlisle, Yourk, etc were special for us. It was like a intimate affair.

As for Williams, his performance yesterday was colosal. IMO he is the most underated central defender in the league. The only time he has problems is when he plays fucking Grant Holt he is like kryptonite to us.

It does apper that the Fergie comments seem to be his mind games taking away from his players failings. It's a step too far IMO. I don't think he can get suspended for it as the incident was dealt with by the referee, if Williams is suspended however then they need to take a note of Van Persies reaction. If we are going to go into handbags and all that.

---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 02:56 PM ----------

I don't believe Fergie was trying to deflect attention (he openly admitted that he was disappointed at dropping the points and that these were games he expects to win), I believe he was going into battle to protect his players which is something that regardless as to your opinion of the man, he does do rather well - even if sometimes (as in this case) he goes in like a bull in a china shop! I think if he'd been asked about it this morning he'd probably have given a more measured answer but well, that's why they hold post match interviews because it would be boring if they allowed managers to think of their response to questions overnight!

It's the Celtic gene.

[Xanjori]

I don't think people here are as objective as they think they are. I am as biast as the day is long but seeing challenges on a football field, last time i checked football was a contact sport

Yeah but its not a sport where you grab people and pull them over, thats called rugby. Pretty much every pundit called it as a foul.

[Deleted]

Yeah but its not a sport where you grab people and pull them over, thats called rugby. Pretty much every pundit called it as a foul.

He gets a touch on the ball, Van Persie has got to be stronger. BTW look at the ref he is looking right at it. He sees that Flores gets to the ball, and makes a good call, he clearly demonstrates that he has seen it and that it is not a foul. You get up and play on.

Thing is in the first half Swansea had a goal that was chalked off because Michu apparently fouled Vidic, though you could say Vidic ran into Michu. Amazing how that isn't being talked about. Before you say he was interfeering, Williams made a block tackle where he had to run arround Van Persie who was in an Offside position, is he interfeering with play? OFC he is as the defender has to run around him. Do I complain about that, no, why? because this stuff evens itself out.

Pretty much every pundit is an arse, they are generally with few exceptions incapable of working directly in the game. They make howling errors and are subjects of lazy journalisum. At the end of the day pundits are employes by tv companies who want to get viewers, unfortunetly they tend to be biased and poorly informed. In the UK Garry Neville is now a pundt, and he is making the rest of them look like idiots.

BTW don't start bringing Rugby into it, some of them wouldn't last 2 min on a Rugby pitch. You would be surprised how many players would have played rugby had they chosen too. For example Giggs wouldn't have been in Manchester had it not been for rugby. Going off in a tangent now.

But they are playing Rugby there Bxing day at the Liberty, think you should find a stream and see what Rugby is before you make a comment like that. Football is a contact sport and its getting too soft. Good tackles are being punished, and bad tackles are now all classified as Career enders. Note Scholes tackle in the game it was a clumsy tackle, it's seen as a Scholes tackle and its ok because he did it, when he started out that wouldn't have been a card when he started out. He would have needed 2 or 3 of them. I am not sure this change is for the better.

[Geomatician]

I don't believe Fergie was trying to deflect attention (he openly admitted that he was disappointed at dropping the points and that these were games he expects to win), I believe he was going into battle to protect his players which is something that regardless as to your opinion of the man, he does do rather well - even if sometimes (as in this case) he goes in like a bull in a china shop! I think if he'd been asked about it this morning he'd probably have given a more measured answer but well, that's why they hold post match interviews because it would be boring if they allowed managers to think of their response to questions overnight!

So he didn't deflect attention yet he said all that to protect his players? Isn't that deflecting attention?

Alex ferguson knew exactly what he was doing. This is nothing new he does something along these lines every season. Which is a small factor in why he's one of the greatest managers of all time.

Van Persie stuck his head out at Williams. That could have landed him in trouble. Both got yellows and really thats all that was needed.

Also looks like Williams sliced the ball towards RVP.

[koodledrum]

It's the Celtic gene.

Scottish gene - we're nippy wee bastards when we get our backs up! (besides, I think Fergie goes all sorts of colours if he's ever referred to as anything close to the C word - being a Govan boy & Rangers supporter!)