Patch 5.2 PTR Mage Changes

[Decimation2g]

If CM gets nerfed to 1.0 I'm prob re-rolling, too many changes in such a short amount of time, not going to keep investing time while things are so unstable. *crossing fingers*

[Imnick]

I don't understand how people can think CM will be nerfed to multipy crit chance by one.

That would be removing the spell, in which case they wouldn't update the tooltip to say "multiplies your crit chance by one", they'd remove the spell.

[Shangalar]

I personally think that sorting out Fire damage by nudging Critical Mass back and forth is a really good thing. It's a lot easier for everyone to have something like that instead of having to adjust spell damage and spell power coefficients.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I don't understand how people can think CM will be nerfed to multipy crit chance by one.

That would be removing the spell, in which case they wouldn't update the tooltip to say "multiplies your crit chance by one", they'd remove the spell.

It amuses me, at least. Although also saddens me, no one seems to have the capacity to think or do basic math...

[Methusula]

It amuses me, at least. Although also saddens me, no one seems to have the capacity to think or do basic math...

Dunno about no one. The vast majority of mages haven't made stupid comments about it. The select few who have are pretty funny though.

[Elegiac]

I personally think that sorting out Fire damage by nudging Critical Mass back and forth is a really good thing. It's a lot easier for everyone to have something like that instead of having to adjust spell damage and spell power coefficients.

Yes, but having something like the old Combustion mechanic (every non-crit spell multiplies your crit chance until you score a crit) would help make the RNG less painful.

[Deleted]

Yes, but having something like the old Combustion mechanic (every non-crit spell multiplies your crit chance until you score a crit) would help make the RNG less painful.

I was thinking almost the same thing yesterday. I thought that a mechanic where you build up your heat and after 10 non crits of Fireball for example you get a pyro proc. If you crit once before 10 non crit Fireballs, the counter will reset. Scorch should not build up to this proc, because of pvp concerns. 10 fireballs is roughly 20 seconds, if you are very unlucky with RNG at least you'll know there is a limit to your bad luck I don't think such a mechanic will be a problem in pvp as it is tied to fireball only and will help reduce the frustrating moments when playing Fire in pve.

[mrgreenthump]

I personally think that sorting out Fire damage by nudging Critical Mass back and forth is a really good thing. It's a lot easier for everyone to have something like that instead of having to adjust spell damage and spell power coefficients.

If HS pyro wouldn't hit like a truck, then ye it would.. but now when fire mages get to around 50-55% crit with the 1.3 CM, HS pyro will hit so hard, they are forced to nerf something again..

[spaace]

If HS pyro wouldn't hit like a truck, then ye it would.. but now when fire mages get to around 50-55% crit with the 1.3 CM, HS pyro will hit so hard, they are forced to nerf something again..

This right here!

one easy solution would be to scale pyro down a bit, then fireball up a bit to make the difference.. that way you have a little less rng (even if you dont crit as much, your fireball can still keep up), and it will save a bit on bursts (which apparently was the first problem anyways... thanks PVP!)

[Deleted]

If HS pyro wouldn't hit like a truck, then ye it would.. but now when fire mages get to around 50-55% crit with the 1.3 CM, HS pyro will hit so hard, they are forced to nerf something again..

50-55% seems a bit exaggerated to me. I'm hardly above 40% with ~32% crit buffed + 9.6% (CM) @ilvl 496. And the Pyro burst would only affect PvP...I (only PvE) hate it when PvP concerns nerf PvE ;/

[Imnick]

He said When
There are at least two raid tiers left to go, if you are already above 40% then 55% is going to be very achievable

[Malfecto]

My question is, why don't they just diminish the crit curve more sharply and let us recover damage from reaching a crit breakpoint and reforging other stats. I would think that would give them more play in itemization budget without completely infringing on other specs.

[Deleted]

@didactic
1) Why not. I would have more say that Scorch need to be baseline and another spell added to complete with a heavy movement.
2) It's more or lass the case actually. Did you even cast Evocation or use a Gem since 4.3, in Fire/Frost ?
3) Arcane: return of the burst spec. It can be little more interesting than now, especially with the actual Arcane Charge/Missile.
4) Fire: no really ok with this one. What define Fire is it RNG? What make you yell like a warlock on fire when you have a Pyro proc? Isn't because this proc is rare but powerful. IB made it better than in 4.x. Adding Scorch to the rotation can be a plus, igf it have a bonus like activating the crit bonus.
5) Frost: for me, it still a now. I know your position and I respect it but for me Frost's core game-play turn around 2 things: Shatter combo and Water Elemental.
Shatter is here because we can do good damage every time it's frozen (less than with a proc). I'm more for returning it to frost's specialisation only.
Water Elemental is here since ... Warcraft (2 or 3 ?). It was a cooldown, more or less permanent, nameable, but it was here. Actually, a lot of Frostie's would prefer more interaction with it than less. If GC add a glyph to make it cute and nameable, he will receive a lot of thanks.
6) Ice Barrier: baseline.
7) to make it quick : you want blue bomb in Forst, Red in fire and Purple in Arcane. Hum, boring ...

[Deleted]

He said When
There are at least two raid tiers left to go, if you are already above 40% then 55% is going to be very achievable

Oh, right, sorry for misunderstanding (but he also said "now" ).
Nevertheless, I already knew that blizzard would nerf CM successively as I saw it on the beta because it's the easiest way for them to "handle" the strength of crit of fire. Otherwise fire would need a new design without "crit in a row for some burst" or damage displacements.
But I also like point 4.) adding a new spell for fire rotation!!!

[Elegiac]

@didactic
1) Why not. I would have more say that Scorch need to be baseline and another spell added to complete with a heavy movement.
2) It's more or lass the case actually. Did you even cast Evocation or use a Gem since 4.3, in Fire/Frost ?
3) Arcane: return of the burst spec. It can be little more interesting than now, especially with the actual Arcane Charge/Missile.
4) Fire: no really ok with this one. What define Fire is it RNG? What make you yell like a warlock on fire when you have a Pyro proc? Isn't because this proc is rare but powerful. IB made it better than in 4.x. Adding Scorch to the rotation can be a plus, igf it have a bonus like activating the crit bonus.
5) Frost: for me, it still a now. I know your position and I respect it but for me Frost's core game-play turn around 2 things: Shatter combo and Water Elemental.
Shatter is here because we can do good damage every time it's frozen (less than with a proc). I'm more for returning it to frost's specialisation only.
Water Elemental is here since ... Warcraft (2 or 3 ?). It was a cooldown, more or less permanent, nameable, but it was here. Actually, a lot of Frostie's would prefer more interaction with it than less. If GC add a glyph to make it cute and nameable, he will receive a lot of thanks.
6) Ice Barrier: baseline.
7) to make it quick : you want blue bomb in Forst, Red in fire and Purple in Arcane. Hum, boring ...

The problem is that the Shatter combo is difficult to balance between PvE and PvP, because you are giving a class insane control along with a massive damage benefit from that control. It would be like giving warlocks guaranteed crits against feared targets.

If it was more interactable, maybe I would like ot more. At the moment it's just a waterbolt spammer with the occasional Freeze.

Yes, I want to not have to cast out of school spells as part of my main rotation.

[Imnick]

They're trying to remove Scorch rotation from Arcane, aside from that I personally don't really see why your personal feelings with regard to casting out of school spells should extend to the talents because you can just pick the one that matches your spec anyway, the DPS difference isn't particularly large

They can't just make every talent spell not be frost, fire or arcane :V

[Elegiac]

They're trying to remove Scorch rotation from Arcane, aside from that I personally don't really see why your personal feelings with regard to casting out of school spells should extend to the talents because you can just pick the one that matches your spec anyway, the DPS difference isn't particularly large

They can't just make every talent spell not be frost, fire or arcane :V

Perhaps I like the spreading functionality of LB, for instance.

[jtmzac]

Perhaps I like the spreading functionality of LB, for instance.

Isn't that exactly what minor glyphs are made for now, cosmetic changes? I'm running around with a spare minor slot and would love a glyph to change talents/moves to a version that matches my spec with the same functionality. All it needs to do is change the name and icon of the spells.

[Imnick]

Perhaps I like the spreading functionality of LB, for instance.

Then you'd be using Living Bomb as Frost, defeating your own belief that you shouldn't use cross-spec spells.
Changing the colour doesn't make it a different spell, it'd still be Living Bomb and everyone including you would know that :U

I really think this issue is out of place on your list as it is essentially a personal opinion change rather than a balance one, whereas the others are mostly fairly objective balance issues. It sort of weakens your whole list to put a personal feeling that has little outside support into it.

[kif]

While I understand the changes to Scorch, kill 6 charge camping in Arcane. Got it.

Why not adjust the "spec" bonuses to also include mana management. Arcane could still USE scorch for movement, but at the higher mana cost. For fire, you get a spec bonus reducing the mana cost of Fire spells including Living Bomb. If arcane is supposed to be about mastery...make it more powerful, but make the mastery/haste balance the tricky part. If you want arcane mages to cast ArB, give them a reason to cast it. Maybe when you cast ArB, you get a 10 second buff that boosts arcane damage and mana regen depending on the number of charges that you used. This would also allow arcane mages to use Scorch for those movement periods, with a reduced mana cost they can change locations and scorch along the way. Obviously tinkering with fire and keeping it "under control" as gear levels rise...is really tough. If you base CM off higher gear values...it wrecks the newly minted, not highly geared 90's.

I honestly cannot speak for Frost, as I think I played frost for something like 15-20 levels the first time I leveled a mage...and never again since then.