Let's really talk about the USA.

[Deleted]

Nothing wrong with being religious as long as you keep it to yourself and don't try to push your way of life on other people.

Amen!

I'm sorry, had to say this xp

[ringpriest]

Then why do you have such issues passing gun regulations with such a clear minority?

A clear minority with money (from the arms industry, NRA) and lobbying works. Also swing states tend to have much higher gun ownership rates than the average.

While there's certainly a huge pro-gun lobbying (and marketing) effort by the arms industry, and it does have a big effect, there are other aspects to America's struggle with gun regulation. The issue of state vs. federal regulation is a big one. The nature of civil society varies widely across the 50 states. Many densely populated U.S. states and large cities do (or did, before the most recent round of pro-gun Supreme Court cases) have very restrictive gun regulations. At the same time, residents in rural areas of states like Maine or Montana see such regulations as ludicrous and unnecessary and many allow open carry. And don't forget, that while it may (or may not, the relevant laws are complex) be illegal to take your guns from one state to another, there are no real border controls between most states in the U.S. and thus no real way to enforce gun regulation between states except after-the-fact prosecution when someone commits a crime.

[Nadev]

Love the unsupported cries of racism here.

[Elegiac]

Love the unsupported cries of racism here.

While there is significant intolerance on the basis of race (amongst other things) in parts of the United States, I will say this;

It's a lot easier to point fingers when you live in a country with relatively homogeneous ethno-religious makeup.

[Deleted]

Well they eventually will adapt, the 3th generation is already adapting better then the 1st and 2nd. So I agree, in time ... as long as they don't start a political party with enough backing to implement sharia (there are a lot of muslims in Belgium that would vote against this, especially after they tasted our freedom xp)

Don't be silly. The 2nd gen immigrants barely qualify as muslims - they're belgians just like the rest of you. I bet they're even Walloon or Flemish My point is, there's no use making a difference because there really isn't one. You don't make a difference between a catholic belgian and an atheist one do you ? Neither do you make the difference between one born from serbian parents and one whose ancestry is entirely belgian ? Why should 3rd gen immigrants be any different than the rest of belgians ?
I need to find whoever theorized the republican state religion; that the cult of the state would replace christianism. He was right - in a sense.

[Elegiac]

Don't be silly. The 2nd gen immigrants barely qualify as muslims - they're belgians just like the rest of you. I bet they're even Walloon or Flemish My point is, there's no use making a difference because there really isn't one. You don't make a difference between a catholic belgian and an atheist one do you ? Neither do you make the difference between one born from serbian parents and one whose ancestry is entirely belgian ? Why should 3rd gen immigrants be any different than the rest of belgians ?
I need to find whoever theorized the republican state religion; that the cult of the state would replace christianism. He was right - in a sense.

Not always the case. A large number of immigrant Muslim families living in a number of European countries (the UK for example) have a nasty habit of sending their children back to the home country in an effort to inculcate their culture and faith over that of their actual country of residence.

[skrump]

Yeah, people are lazy, people want handouts. If you can't pay for a Ferrari, but you still want one, should you get it? No, you should stick with your 20 year Buick until you can get a better car. Same thing applies to education and healthcare. I shouldn't pay for other peoples' amenities, this isn't a communist state, we aren't obligated to share wealth.

I agree to a point however I do think that you should be obligated to spend a certain percentage of your wealth every year or be taxed on it a second time.

Not because it is fair "it isn't" nor is it fair to the economy for you to sit on a large portion of the nations wealth because you value the currency moreso than the products it is meant to be spent on.

That being said Obama has tossed around the number $250k quite abit as he considers that to be the separation point in yearly earnings between the middle class and the absurdly rich (he is retarded the amount should sit at 1million) otherwise we do nothing more than gouge the shit out of small startup businesses ensuring that major conglomerates are able to monopolize their industries.

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 08:24 AM ----------

So poor people should just die when they get cancer?

They should be stuck in dead end jobs, unable to get an education that'll get them somewhere?

Ferrari's are items of luxury. Education and healthcare is not.

It's not fucking communism to offer cheaper and affordable education and healthcare.

I disagree healthcare is clearly a luxury as their is no reason to keep unproductive people alive and by this countries standards the productive people are the ones who seek education and abuse others to amass a profit.

[Deleted]

Don't be silly. The 2nd gen immigrants barely qualify as muslims - they're belgians just like the rest of you. I bet they're even Walloon or Flemish My point is, there's no use making a difference because there really isn't one. You don't make a difference between a catholic belgian and an atheist one do you ? Neither do you make the difference between one born from serbian parents and one whose ancestry is entirely belgian ? Why should 3rd gen immigrants be any different than the rest of belgians ?
I need to find whoever theorized the republican state religion; that the cult of the state would replace christianism. He was right - in a sense.

Maybe I didn't formulate my words correct, because you are right, muslims can be Belgians, I wasn't targeting the muslims. I know very wel integrated muslims/ immigrants from the Middle East/ Northern Africa. And I don't mean integrated as in be as Belgian as the 1830ies revolutionaries, they can bring there culture with them, there are loads of very good pitta-dürum bars that I love .

But there are immigrants who refuse to integrate :not learn the language, live of our welfare system(mind you there are also Belgians who do this), discriminate against women and gays (*cough Brussels/Antwerp cough*) and in general just being extreme rightwing Islamistic (shariaforBelgium).
And it is because of these vocal minorities, who are mostly 1st/2nd generation, that muslims have a bad name in Belgium.

Also, don't start about the Flemish/Walloon part, because thats a pretty complicated history (going back to when the French started discriminating the Flemish in the WW1 trenches => actually a very sad story)

[skrump]

I can't go to the military anyways even if I could I would refuse. Not who I am, honestly the guy is full of it.

So you would refuse to help your government yet you expect them to help you ?

Perfect idea, anyone who wants financial aid from the government for any reason should be required to enlist in the armed forces even if it is only as a reserve unit, these people should also be the "only" ones called to jury duty, Furthermore they should be required to perform a minimum of 30 hours community service per month"military training counts" (make them work for the money moreso than they would if they got off their lazy asses on their own)

[Deleted]

So you would refuse to help your government yet you expect them to help you ?

Perfect idea, anyone who wants financial aid from the government for any reason should be required to enlist in the armed forces even if it is only as a reserve unit, these people should also be the "only" ones called to jury duty, Furthermore they should be required to perform a minimum of 30 hours community service per month"military training counts" (make them work for the money moreso than they would if they got off their lazy asses on their own)

You're supposed to cut on the defence budget >.< You already have enough armed forces to conquer a small continent, what benefits will having more militairy personnel give?
And I'm not clear on what you mean with the jury duty part

[Deleted]

Not always the case. A large number of immigrant Muslim families living in a number of European countries (the UK for example) have a nasty habit of sending their children back to the home country in an effort to inculcate their culture and faith over that of their actual country of residence.

Never heard of it from any of my friends, I don't believe it's really a "large number". They'll go back and check on the family, but not do political indoctrination. If they don't like western values, they probably don't immigrate in the first place.

Also, don't start about the Flemish/Walloon part, because thats a pretty complicated history (going back to when the French started discriminating the Flemish in the WW1 trenches => actually a very sad story)

I thought it started when Napoleon gave France its "natural borders" and established a french administration in Belgium. (For those who don't know, Gaul was defined by the romans as going all the way to the Rhine. Napoleon, being a history nut, didn't want to prove them wrong.)

[mvaliz]

Nothing wrong with being religious as long as you keep it to yourself and don't try to push your way of life on other people.

There was a comedian who said it best:

"I saw somebody with an I<3 Jesus bumper sticker, and I think that's cool. You should be allowed to say I <3 Jesus, and should be allowed to <3 Jesus. My problem is not the people who say I <3 Jesus, it's the people who say I <3 Jesus... and so should YOU!"

[Nadev]

While there is significant intolerance on the basis of race (amongst other things) in parts of the United States, I will say this;

It's a lot easier to point fingers when you live in a country with relatively homogeneous ethno-religious makeup.

It's also lovely seeing the people complaining about Muslims in this thread.

[mvaliz]

So you would refuse to help your government yet you expect them to help you ?

Perfect idea, anyone who wants financial aid from the government for any reason should be required to enlist in the armed forces even if it is only as a reserve unit, these people should also be the "only" ones called to jury duty, Furthermore they should be required to perform a minimum of 30 hours community service per month"military training counts" (make them work for the money moreso than they would if they got off their lazy asses on their own)

...is the only way to help your government that helps you is to pick up a gun and shoot people? I think even you know the answer to that one...

Or... perhaps... I can help clean the streets, or prepare soldiers meals, or help run a library, or help educate youths in our schools, ect...

[Deleted]

Never heard of it from any of my friends, I don't believe it's really a "large number". They'll go back and check on the family, but not do political indoctrination. If they don't like western values, they probably don't immigrate in the first place.

I thought it started when Napoleon gave France its "natural borders" and established a french administration in Belgium. (For those who don't know, Gaul was defined by the romans as going all the way to the Rhine. Napoleon, being a history nut, didn't want to prove them wrong.)

Thats probably true, but I know the most about the WW1 trench history, because my great grandfather apperantly was 1 of the few Flemish soldiers who spoke French and refused promotion because of said discrimination. A lot of nasty things happened back then.

[Slummish]

I realize many people cannot afford the same levels of international travel as others; however, until an American has spent any time abroad, it is very difficult for him to understand just how lucky he is to call this country home. For all of our problems, I can guarantee you, there are only about five other places on the planet that are as nice.

Sure, people romanticize parts of Europe, but even in Europe's finest cities, you wouldn't want to live there once you see how "globalized" they are. Globalization is all fine in theory and works wonders in an economic sense, but trust me, you do not want to live in some weird concrete apartment building where all of your neighbors speak different languages. There's something to be said for the comfort and peace of mind that comes with Main Street, USA.

The U.S. is unique in that we have people of all races, religions and ethnicity living together, but we share one common spirit. We have come to this country because we wanted to, because we sought freedom and because we believed that personal accountability was more important than tyrannical nanny-ing.

As for American racism, at least our racism is overt and our people have the ability to have their eyes opened over time. Look around the rest of the world; people keep grievances and vendettas and hatred alive for generations. Whole swaths of tribes and clans would murder whole swaths of other people if given the chance because of some perceived slight that may have occurred a thousand years ago. American racism? Ask the Chinese how many disparaging words they have to describe the white man? In Cantonese alone, there are more than twenty.

[Deleted]

Sure, people romanticize parts of Europe, but even in Europe's finest cities, you wouldn't want to live there once you see how "globalized" they are. Globalization is all fine in theory and works wonders in an economic sense, but trust me, you do not want to live in some weird concrete apartment building where all of your neighbors speak different languages. There's something to be said for the comfort and peace of mind that comes with Main Street, USA.

Even America's finest cities have neighbourhoods where you better not dwell at night because you risk being shot And how are people not speaking different languages in America? I tought it was the country build on immigrants.
Also those different languages might actually be the countries national language that you don't happen to understand, as a Belgian, I speak 3 languages, Dutch/Flemish, English and French(even tough I don't like the language I still understand it) I also understand a few German words(smetterling,lol) and I'm planning to learn Spannish and Portugese. Speaking different languages is encouraged here, its called being multicultural, you should understand this, as the North-American culture is based on hundreds of different cultures.

[Wikiy]

I realize many people cannot afford the same levels of international travel as others; however, until an American has spent any time abroad, it is very difficult for him to understand just how lucky he is to call this country home. For all of our problems, I can guarantee you, there are only about five other places on the planet that are as nice.

Cherry picking at its finest.

Sure, people romanticize parts of Europe, but even in Europe's finest cities, you wouldn't want to live there once you see how "globalized" they are. Globalization is all fine in theory and works wonders in an economic sense, but trust me, you do not want to live in some weird concrete apartment building where all of your neighbors speak different languages. There's something to be said for the comfort and peace of mind that comes with Main Street, USA.

Generalization at its finest. Just FYI, I wouldn't mind living alongside foreign neighbors. Not that i do though. On the contrary, a vast majority of European countries are extremely culturally homogenous. So i seriously have no idea what you're talking about.

[Elegiac]

I realize many people cannot afford the same levels of international travel as others; however, until an American has spent any time abroad, it is very difficult for him to understand just how lucky he is to call this country home. For all of our problems, I can guarantee you, there are only about five other places on the planet that are as nice.

Your opinion. I happen to disagree; there are some parts of India which are 'nicer' than parts of the United States, for example.

Sure, people romanticize parts of Europe, but even in Europe's finest cities, you wouldn't want to live there once you see how "globalized" they are. Globalization is all fine in theory and works wonders in an economic sense, but trust me, you do not want to live in some weird concrete apartment building where all of your neighbors speak different languages. There's something to be said for the comfort and peace of mind that comes with Main Street, USA.

Complete bullshit. As was said, the United States is in fact -vastly- more diverse than the majority of European countries which tend to not ethnoreligiously vary.

The U.S. is unique in that we have people of all races, religions and ethnicity living together, but we share one common spirit. We have come to this country because we wanted to, because we sought freedom and because we believed that personal accountability was more important than tyrannical nanny-ing.

Partially true, as a statement of purpose rather than what is actually the case. But even the Founders did not trust the average citizen to be able to make important government decisions; hence why the original design of the country is surprisingly undemocratic.

[Reeve]

I realize many people cannot afford the same levels of international travel as others; however, until an American has spent any time abroad, it is very difficult for him to understand just how lucky he is to call this country home. For all of our problems, I can guarantee you, there are only about five other places on the planet that are as nice.

There are a lot of great things about the US and I'm glad to live here, but I think you're kidding yourself if you think there are only about five other places on the planet that are as nice. I've traveled internationally pretty extensively.