Patch 5.2, disappointment for people returning to raids.

[Vargur]

So in World of Casualcraft, you'd like 496 gear with JP and no rep requirement. Wow, OK. That's why you're "returning to raids in 5.2" to be carried by Blizz themselves. How about go grind the gear daily, like the rest of us.

[Aertea]

This'll be the last time I'll repeat this, because I'm frankly tired of repeating myself:

New 5-man heroics which replace raids in progression is the ultimate design flaw and is what ultimately kills an expansion. Did you like doing ICC for a year? No? Wouldn't Ulduar have been a refreshing change on an alt? Too bad, it has been replaced by the much easier ToC 5-man heroic. Many people didn't even get to experience Ulduar. Its a design flaw because they outdate raids when they're in their current expansion, thus making only 1 raid matter, and that's where both Wotlk and Cataclysm went wrong, it ultimately cuts the amount of content available to the player. Its also not a good idea to rush players if they want to try current content, they have 3 months to get in and beat it all, and after that their chance ran away and it is no longer current content. If PvE progression happens through raids rather than heroics dungeons the player will be able to go through all the raids by the end of the expansion and experience it all, thus making for more content and more fun. Frankly, dungeons don't make for pleasant experiences after 5+ runs, raids do, and they're only there once a week, while heroics are there every day.

I agree with this as well. I don't understand why people feel entitled to be able to jump into the next tier of normal raiding the day it releases. This is what failed horribly in 4.3. Firelands would have been completely left in the dust if people weren't trying to grind out legendaries. Pretty much everyone was forced to do nothing but the 8 bosses in DS, which lead to quick burnout.

I still feel that TBC mostly did raiding right, throughout its entire life cycle you had guilds in all levels of progression. The main problem was that casual players never got to even experience the content of the raids, which LFR addresses perfectly, while also providing an avenue to help get caught up should that be your goal.

[Deleted]

So in World of Casualcraft, you'd like 496 gear with JP and no rep requirement. Wow, OK. That's why you're "returning to raids in 5.2" to be carried by Blizz themselves. How about go grind the gear daily, like the rest of us.

Its not the first time when, so called CASUALS are crying cos they dont have BiS gear in 2 days after ding 90 lvl (as we can see discussion ended at this point - time needed to gather items)



I still remember one guy crying about reputation:
"Hey blizzard i have 9 alts all on 90 lvl and i cant have in each reputation - i must farm it over and over and i simply dont have time to sit in WoW whole day"

2 hours a day and you have all daily and at least few random HC done. 2-3 weeks and you are geared more than enought to raid. You have all revered reputation, and you has been in each HC like 10 times so its just impossible you will miss any item.

So once again - stop crying that you cant have all bis gear after 2 days. You CANT eat cookie and have same cookie !!!

[Arbs]

Oh the glorious days of TBC were you have to gear yourself through the previous tier without having new dungeons to boost you. Oh how glorious it will be.

[Xsy]

You didn't read anything after the bolded part did you?

I did. I wasen't arguing with you, just wanted to emphasize the point we share for the rest

[asharia]

t14 LFR takes the place of those old 'catch up' 5mans.

[Deleted]

Droodeffect please share your maintoons armory link, I'm getting curious after reading ur posts...

[Farora]

The point is to raid older content with your raiding guild to gear up new people, if needed. Not to run shitty LFR with 0.001% chance to get items you need.

[kamuimac]

I wonder how many of those gloryfiing TBC multiple tier with no jump over were in position of recruiting officers for their guilds back then.

[Deleted]

I don't see my guild going back for old content to get gear for 1 guy, and it's already hard to fill the gaps in it.
I hate the fact that Blizz wants to gate everything they can, even gear progression.

Usually the more you played the faster you got there, but thats not true anymore, there is only so much you can do without hitting a cap or limit these days.

Also, I did run older raids with my alts when firelands was out, I think it was still better than ZG/ZA stuff (specially trinkets/weapons).
Only thing they shouldn't have done is place tiersets behind Jp every new raid (or compareable ilvl gear).
Nobody did firelands because of LFR and the fact that DS normal was too easy.
Back in Wotlk people just did older raids for the extra Vp I think also (no cap back then i think ?)

[Deleted]

I wonder how many of those gloryfiing TBC multiple tier with no jump over were in position of recruiting officers for their guilds back then.

I don't think people want the TBC model back (well I am sure there are some people that do), but I do not (yes I was involved with recruiting in a server 3rd guild back then) I am much more casual now though.

All I want is when a raid patch arrive that they don't introduce 5 mans that rain epics, rep and valor.

There are plenty of ways of catching up, but please don't make everything up to that point obsolete.

There has to be a balance somewhere right?

[Deafknight]

Usually the more you played the faster you got there, but thats not true anymore, there is only so much you can do without hitting a cap or limit these days.

I can gear to ilvl 476 just by spending more time on the game after which the only cap becomes the raidlockout/valor.
As it has always been.

[Varabently]

That assumes that people have the reputation to buy them (unless it was really low) and also JP are really slow to gain as well as valor gear only covering a limited amount of slots.

Presumably the rep requirements will be bumped to justice point level too. Or maybe they wont to encourage a progression? I dunno

[Nobleshield]

As someone who may or may not (probably not, but who knows) return for 5.2 I don't have a problem with this. You SHOULDN'T be able to just run some new 5 mans, buy old raid gear and jump right into the latest tier of raiding. If you're returning to the game, you should have to run the (presumably nerfed?) old tier to gear up for the new tier, that's progression.

I like how Rift handled it before their expansion. You did have artificial gating (in the form of Hit/Toughness requirements that got higher for each raid, kind of like the old Defense for tanks but not one rate for all raids), but it meant you couldn't just hit max level and jump right into the latest tier.

I don't see an issue with that.

[Keoren]

Agreed, and having fun isnt being able to enjoy all the new content when it comes out, not weeks and weeks later when you hopefully catch up in gear?

Any specific reason why you wouldn't want to progress through t14?

If you're not on a dead realm then there should still be guilds doing runs through the t14 content for upgrades while taking their first steps into t15. These are always an alternative and it won't likely take many runs until you have reasonable gear. If you are wanted or needed in a specific guild to take part in the latest content right away, they should be able to feed you a notable amount of gear very fast.

I think that it is a better model to design an expansion so that people will actually want to run through even the older content. It gives one a better sense of progression and provides more for the players to do. Ideally it should also soften the learning curve for a new player. If you do not want that experience, there are still multiple ways to bypass it. Other people in this thread already pointed out several methods of obtaining epics without taking a step into the raids.

That said, I don't consider few 5-man dungeons dropping slightly higher item level gear for few specific slots (weapons) an inherently bad idea as long as they don't make the old dungeons completely obsolete. If the quality of the items is reasonable, additional dungeons can both aid new players and help the older ones replace the few blues that they might still be wearing without any real downsides.

[soulcrusher]

Or you could put the same effort in the rest of us had to when mop launched.

Whats wrong with working through the tiers and experiencing the content anyway? Its surely a good thing that its not made immediately redundant by the next tier.

[Subbversion]

I couldn't imagine the iLvl Threshhold for the LFR version of ToT being over 483.

[mysticx]

I couldn't imagine the iLvl Threshhold for the LFR version of ToT being over 483.

I'm guessing it will be 480, at least for the first part (the place will almost certainly be multi-wing), the MSV -> HoF/ToES requirement hop was 10 itemlevels too, requires some work but still doable with some effort, i think the greatest progressions in VP-gear will be in rewards from... (Oh, i'll catch hell for this) reps, if the difference from the 5.0-reps to the 5.1 ones is any indication.

[Dreyo]

"I can't do the current raids with the gear easily provided from a variety of sources, so please give me better gear so I can also not do the next raids with it"

If you want to raid, raid. If you don't want to raid, don't complain about not raiding.

[Aquamonkey]

"I can't do the current raids with the gear easily provided from a variety of sources, so please give me better gear so I can also not do the next raids with it"

If you want to raid, raid. If you don't want to raid, don't complain about not raiding.

I don't want to raid, I just want welfare epics.