Have they fixed the codex yet?

[Kelimbror]

That's not the point I'm getting at. This isn't a "Why the hell does EA/BW suck?" rant. It's merely pointing out that it's not an insurmountable task to put an achievement system in place and there's enough in the game currently to be able to give a number of achievements.

It's not the point you're getting at because you are missing the point. We're talking about people that can't even handle their own F2P unlocks without breaking their game. A cash shop that is clearly a priority over everything else. It is obviously an insurmountable task, because they can't even handle much simpler tasks.

I'd love to believe Jamos' optimism that maybe after the dust settles, a great game will be born from this one's ashes. I just don't see it happening.

[Armourboy]

There's hope though. SOE made more of a mess of SWG than BW could ever hope to make with TOR. I'm sure the whole MMO world has heard of the NGE and it's fallout. Incompetence? greed? SOE had been there and done that. However already a year after the NGE the development team at SWG started to improve their quality of output and within a short time had implemented some fantastic ingame features (one of which was a comprehensive achievement system). Noone who played from 2005 to 2011 can say the game didn't get progressively better and better with nearly every update outdoing the previous one.

If SOE could come back from such a nightmare as the NGE was then surely there's hope for TOR. Now, I wouldn't bet my mortgage on it, lol but imo there's a good chance the content quality will improve over time.

The thing is though SOE didn't really come back from it. Sure they put out some more features and content, it never even got back to the level it was Pre-NGE as far as players go. In fact, I would argue as a company they are still suffering from it as I'm sure I'm not the only MMO player out their that refuses to ever spend money on one of their products again. Actually I know I'm not, I have a list of friends that won't.

While I guess they did add some things after the NGE, it didn't do much good. While I loved Pre-CU SWG and stuck around after the CU, I'm not crazy enough to believe that it was a well developed game, even after the NGE. In fact I know it wasn't, I went back many times only to deal with many of the same issues that existed years prior. As a player base, SWG players dealt with poo for so long, that garbage seemed awesome.

As far as BioWare destroying TOR just as bad, I wouldn't hold my breath, and really I'm not so sure they haven't. Considering Pre-NGE SWG only had 175k or so players, I'm not sure as a percentage that TOR hasnt lost just as much if not more.

[Deleted]

1) The thing is though SOE didn't really come back from it. Sure they put out some more features and content, it never even got back to the level it was Pre-NGE as far as players go. In fact, I would argue as a company they are still suffering from it as I'm sure I'm not the only MMO player out their that refuses to ever spend money on one of their products again. Actually I know I'm not, I have a list of friends that won't.

2) While I guess they did add some things after the NGE, it didn't do much good. While I loved Pre-CU SWG and stuck around after the CU, I'm not crazy enough to believe that it was a well developed game, even after the NGE. In fact I know it wasn't, I went back many times only to deal with many of the same issues that existed years prior. As a player base, SWG players dealt with poo for so long, that garbage seemed awesome.

3) As far as BioWare destroying TOR just as bad, I wouldn't hold my breath, and really I'm not so sure they haven't. Considering Pre-NGE SWG only had 175k or so players, I'm not sure as a percentage that TOR hasnt lost just as much if not more.

1) I was talking about the quality of features added. The actual level/quality of output increased constantly post 2006. Subs remained between 50k-100k and my server in SWG felt as full as mine does now in TOR. However I was mainly talking about the quality of content added.

2) I guess that's your opinion. Mine is that features added in that time were actually of a great standard and I don't believe so because I'd been used to 'poo' for so long. Infact I'd go as far as to say that some of those very same features would make TOR a much better game.

3) Good point. % wise TOR has lost far more. The difference being that many of those who quit SWG due to the NGE were furious (like yourself, they swore to never spend again on an SOE product). With TOR, the quitters seem to be more disillusioned than anything else. There's more hope of bringing some of them back eventually.

Regardless, SOE did stop the rot quite effectively and started to pump out some great content imo. My hope is that BW does the same asap.

[notorious98]

It's not the point you're getting at because you are missing the point. We're talking about people that can't even handle their own F2P unlocks without breaking their game. A cash shop that is clearly a priority over everything else. It is obviously an insurmountable task, because they can't even handle much simpler tasks.

I'd love to believe Jamos' optimism that maybe after the dust settles, a great game will be born from this one's ashes. I just don't see it happening.

Uh, considering I started this conversation, I created the point. I can't miss my own point. It was never about EA. In fact, EA was never brought into it until you did in your last comment. It was about whether the game itself had enough in-game to handle an achievement system. You changed the point to fit what you wanted to say, but it was never the point.

[Kelimbror]

Uh, considering I started this conversation, I created the point. I can't miss my own point. It was never about EA. In fact, EA was never brought into it until you did in your last comment. It was about whether the game itself had enough in-game to handle an achievement system. You changed the point to fit what you wanted to say, but it was never the point.

I can't help you when you don't even know what you, yourself are talking about. *shrug* We can all be as arrogant as we please, but that's not really going to create a discussion. If you wanted a blank wall to reaffirm your opinions, you should have taken them to one.

I presented a point, that showed what you are talking about means more/something different than you had noticed. It's nothing to be offended about. That's how ideas grow.

[ariakul]

Uh, considering I started this conversation, I created the point. I can't miss my own point. It was never about EA. In fact, EA was never brought into it until you did in your last comment. It was about whether the game itself had enough in-game to handle an achievement system. You changed the point to fit what you wanted to say, but it was never the point.

I don't think it has to do with if there is enough in-game to create an achievement system, I think their is personally. I just question EA's programming and management experience to actually implement it.

[Armourboy]

1) I was talking about the quality of features added. The actual level/quality of output increased constantly post 2006. Subs remained between 50k-100k and my server in SWG felt as full as mine does now in TOR. However I was mainly talking about the quality of content added.

2) I guess that's your opinion. Mine is that features added in that time were actually of a great standard and I don't believe so because I'd been used to 'poo' for so long. Infact I'd go as far as to say that some of those very same features would make TOR a much better game.

3) Good point. % wise TOR has lost far more. The difference being that many of those who quit SWG due to the NGE were furious (like yourself, they swore to never spend again on an SOE product). With TOR, the quitters seem to be more disillusioned than anything else. There's more hope of bringing some of them back eventually.

Regardless, SOE did stop the rot quite effectively and started to pump out some great content imo. My hope is that BW does the same asap.

I'll disagree somewhat, from what I played afterwards, the features while many, still weren't all that great. Sure there were some that were good and creative, but its really hard to get into when the combat still doesn't half work or you need weird macros to make it useable. I though they had some good ideas after the fact, but it doesn't matter how much icing you put on a turd, its still a turd. I loved the game Pre-CU, so its not like I didn't swallow a ton of crappy development myself.

SWG will always be this to me, great ideas, more potential than any MMO in history, SOE and LA just would never give the developers the time they needed to do it right. Thus we always got half finished, barely working content and features.