The Game Was Better When.....

[Peso]

Noo most certainly no one ever complained about space goats, sci-fi elements, shiny bright tier sets and bold colors.... naaah must have been my imagination back in the day.

People ALWAYS bitch. It's best to just ignore it.

I have had a good experience. I'm not speaking about the people complaining about the sky being blue in a video game.

[a little Kappa]

How to fix the game:

Give people incentive to learn. LFR is fine, nerfing normal/HC content is too much. I'm happy with my current progress because I get something to work for. An incentive to get better. Blizzard does not give the baddies a reason to get better in LFR because they don't need to. They do MSV LFR, fine fair enough its ez. HoF LFR should be harder than it is, same for terrace LFR.

Gives them something to go for. Only proper mechanics in LFR are garalon kiting and falling floor on elegon. Rest is wrong.

[Peso]

Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal people. You need to fight for a better game especially when Blizzard is ontop on the genre and they have a flood of fan boys that will accept any garbage they put out.

[Pull My Finger]

Not exactly when you're speaking in terms of a MMORPG lol.

Subscribers pay every month.

Just read up on the term or ask an adult, really.

[Buxton McGraff]

Wrong!

Biggest sublosses where when:
A) They made everything harder after WotLK < So difficulty-related instead of quality.
B) When DS was out for far too long < Quantity instead of quality-related.

As those two points easily proof: It has nothing to do with quality.

The big patch that had "the worst raid ever" according to some people on here (4.3) actually stopped all decline.

Notice you're strictly speaking about PVE. I'm talking about the overall quality of the game, not the specific quality of one raid... WOTLK and BS were the best times in WOW for me and most other players.

[Tomana]

Shadow priest.. how often did I get rejected because they wanted a) proper damage b) cc (mind control often wasn't usable and not widely accepted as reliable cc)...
Worst offenders: Shattered halls, S-Labs (dat oger trash :X ) and Mag-Terrace.

But hey, that's because the game was better! People who played hybrid specs were noobs anyway for not playing non-hybrid classes!
/sarcasm

---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 01:26 AM ----------

Even if MoPs release will keep subs higher than they were for a while, it's pretty naive to think it'll stay that way.

The game is too old to keep attracting more new people than old ones leaving. I'm just pissed off how this is used to determine quality.
If subs determine quality, Cataclysm was "twice as good" as classic (what does that even mean...?)

Each product has a life cycle with growth, maturity and decline. WoW is no different. But even given that, it's holding up several orders of magnitude better than all other similar games.

---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 01:29 AM ----------

How can you disagree the LFG/LFR system is flawed and takes the fun out of the game?

If by fun you mean assembling your group in Shattrath for 1 hour, flying to the entrance and saw 2 dps leaving after a wipe so that you start over again, then I'll pass on that fun, thank you very much.

Or do challenge modes, they require manual group composition and flying to the entrance, plus they're harder.

[Perkunas]

But hey, that's because the game was better! People who played hybrid specs were noobs anyway for not playing non-hybrid classes!
/sarcasm

I was an Elemental Shaman and I had no problems getting into dungeons and raids. I worked my way up from a crappy Karazhan guild on Emerald Dream into a tier 5 guild on Illidan that eventually ended up clearing Sunwell and I was forced to spec resto twice in that entire progression period. Main-spec Elemental Shaman in progression content during the most restrictive and difficult period of raiding in the game. All it took was dedication and not being terrible.

[Tomana]

I was an Elemental Shaman and I had no problems getting into dungeons and raids. I worked my way up from a crappy Karazhan guild on Emerald Dream into a tier 5 guild on Illidan that eventually ended up clearing Sunwell and I was forced to spec resto twice in that entire progression period. I was a main-spec Elemental Shaman in progression content during the most restrictive and difficult period of raiding in the game. All it took was dedication and not being terrible.

I know, I ran heroics with elem shamans, SPs and whatever we could find (medium-pop RP server, all that, so you cannot be too picky)

[Perkunas]

I know, I ran heroics with elem shamans, SPs and whatever we could find (medium-pop RP server, all that, so you cannot be too picky)

Spec didn't really matter. What mattered was whether or not you were a competent player. I did less damage than a pure caster, but my buffs to my group, my bloodlust, and my damage brought more than another pure was capable of. I honestly miss utility specs in the worst way.

[Tomana]

I honestly miss utility specs in the worst way.

I do miss utility spec sometimes as well, but when I think about the logistical nightmare it led to in raid organization, I suddenly don't miss them as much

[Granyala]

All it took was dedication and not being terrible.

Or it took randoms that weren't lazy and realized that you didn't need 2 mages in the group to do a dungeon.
Still, I'm glad they got rid of support specs and equalized the classes a bit.
Having almost no gear-scaling sucked when everyone around you could feel every new piece of gear.

[DeeEss]

I find it quite interesting how people long for vanilla when during vanilla alot of people whined about things we now have and take for granted. Also why do people get so bothered by random folk walking around with LFR epics? Why does it bother you..? I can think of a million reasons why people don't want to join a raiding guild but still like to do the raids and LFR gives them exactly thatm

All I see is just people talking big about an out-dated concept because they have nostalgic memories about it... Vanilla wow was amazing but it also had MANY flaws.

Those people have become the true WoW senior citizens, talking about how back in their day, everyone used to walk and like it because the horse hadn't been invented yet. Or some silly crap. There's nothing wrong with nostalgia, but people tend to forget the bad sides. It seems like people forgot how much of a PITA it was to stand around spamming what roles/classes you needed for an instance.

I was a hard core raider in vanilla and BC, but my guild lost too many good people by the end of Wrath and our hearts weren't really in it any more. Come Cataclysm, we only ran Firelands with PUG'd people and those on our dwindling friends list until LFR came out. I never cared if people had the same stuff I did, so maybe that's another reason I enjoy LFR. Whenever these arguments come up, I can't help but imagine some NFL star watching trophies being handed out in a peewee league and saying, "What?!? They get trophies too?!? Screw this! Make them stop! Take it away!"

[miffy23]

Posted in this thread like 6 pages ago, then went and actually PLAYED THE GAME. Came back to this trainwreck of a thread. Don't you think some of you with gripes about it should either move on to something else and leave well enough alone, or maybe PLAY THE GAME instead of whining on a board about it? Just sayin...

[Deleted]

Better go get those pitchforks and head to Blizzard HQ and demand he is removed from his position.

yeah! -.-

[Crashdummy]

As I explained in my previous posts that the LFG / LFR system took the RPG out of the MMO. The grouping in /2 and /4 was interesting so was going to the world and actually walking into a dungeon you know like a real MMORPG does instead of sitting in a queue all day. That's what MoP doesn't offer.

And as people explained to you, you are wrong.

The RPG element has nothing to do with spending one hour spamming "LF TANK for Shadow Lab and go", that has nothing to do with RPG.

And i seriously dont find interesting to spend 1 our in a city spamming chats with a single message.

---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 10:09 AM ----------

How can you disagree the LFG/LFR system is flawed and takes the fun out of the game? Why doesn't WoW have a queue system meny like COD then?

I disagree with it.

LFG/LFR is one of the best thing that happened to WoW, and its so good that has cbecome an idustry standard, and even fool companies that try to avoid including it end up doing once they realize how stupid is not to include it.

I never had fun in WoW making groups, and thats what LFG/LFR does for you.

Dailies suck, MoP is just a huge daily grindfest, but removing LFG/LFR would only make the game worse.

[Deleted]

LFG meant that they have to balance 5 mans around a random group with no coordination. I for one don’t like playing a game based around the lowest common denominator.

[Pull My Finger]

LFG meant that they have to balance 5 mans around a random group with no coordination. I for one don’t like playing a game based around the lowest common denominator.

Challenge mode too hard ?

[GhostShaman]

Do you know how many people even still raid seriously? It's like a 1% (HC and main raiders) vs 99%.

There are a LOT of Casuals that play WoW now, and they really enjoy LFR because not only do they get to see the content, they also get gear.

And it helps people, who don't want to struggle through Dailies, or make Crafted Gear, or find BOEs, get gear.

This could be part of the problem. The game has become a little too casual. It in no way promotes guild involvement, why even form a group or even try to learn the fights when you can go to a dumbed down LFR. Now unlike the OP Im not saying remove it all from the game, but where is the accomplishment anymore? There is none. A person that takes time to develop their classes and fine tune them, has nothing to show for the effort they put in. This could contribute to the 1% that you are talking about. What is the point of earning something when your given it for practically nothing. WoW is still the dominant MMO in the US but, if you look at the continual subs and unsubs versus a consistent subscriber base you will see that there is something lack luster about the game that drives players away, and its only when new content comes out that they want to comeback. This will only last a month because there is no real progression anymore.

So my point is that even though there are somethings the OP is not right on, there is one thing that seems to have a common theme. There is no more challenge and achievement in the game. Having a title, or special badge because you killed X whelps in so many seconds doesnt give anyone the personal gratification it used too. Honestly in my opinion (and thats all it is) Make 1 level of raids outside LFR. Keep LFR but drop the gear to high end blues. Get rid of all badge epics and make them just that...epic. Also we need to stagger the time between raids launching and hitting LFR. Give guilds a sense of purpose instead of letting this game be practically soloable.

[Tomana]

LFG meant that they have to balance 5 mans around a random group with no coordination. I for one don’t like playing a game based around the lowest common denominator.

Then play challenge modes.

[Deleted]

Then play challenge modes.

Yes, they put challenge modes in because they are realising their game is broken.