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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    I wouldn't agree with this at all. The CPU is going to be a major concern from next year onwards. Look at games like Watch Dogs and GTA 5. The graphics only do so much, in the end, the CPU is what's going to be driving the massive number of AI's/interactive objects, massive open world and so on and so forth. Graphics can continually be improved on, but we're hitting a point at the moment where most people just don't care that much if they get significantly better shading/water/shadows. We'll be heading into the uncanny valley range quite soon. What people actually want are immersive worlds to play in. Imagine increasing the population of say Skyrim two fold and adding in more interactions/autonomous activities for the characters within that world. That's what people are fascinated by now: Being in a world with hundreds of other people, whether real or AI.
    And? It's already been proven that GPU power does matter. PS3 and 360 games look like ass compared to their PC counterparts, so GPU's do matter greatly. The Wii U port of Mass Effect 3 looks a million times better then the PS3 and 360 versions do, despite the fact that it was coded poorly and has some minor frame rate issues, the textures and actually running in HD make it a superior version. These welfare GPU's in the PS3 and 360 can't handle new games without overloading the CPU to run effectively, and they still look like crap. If the next generation lacks anything more then mid range graphics, they are not going to be able to compete with PC graphics, nor will they be able to run new and more advanced game engines like Unreal Engine 4. CPU speed is only a portion of gaming performance, and part of the problem is that development has become so reliant on CPU speed so the GPU didn't matter as much, moving forward the GPU will have to matter in order to code games to run well. CPU speed wouldn't matter if the GPU could handle advanced textures and rendering effectively, and that is why CPU speed won't matter as much next gen, because games will be putting very little strain on GPU's for the first couple of years.

    Also larger worlds equates to a shit load more bugs. I don't want another Skyrim type of game where you can fall through the world at random or run up the side of cliffs on a near 90 degree angle before hitting a wall and falling to your death. And odds are, if you want all those advanced features of a more open world and more unique characters and things, you won't see it on consoles because consoles have to be affordable and they won't ever have the hardware to render those kinds of features effectively.
    Last edited by Rennadrel; 2012-12-31 at 05:51 PM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Also larger worlds equates to a shit load more bugs. I don't want another Skyrim type of game where you can fall through the world at random or run up the side of cliffs on a near 90 degree angle before hitting a wall and falling to your death. And odds are, if you want all those advanced features of a more open world and more unique characters and things, you won't see it on consoles because consoles have to be affordable and they won't ever have the hardware to render those kinds of features effectively.
    It doesn't have to be larger world on detail level of Skyrim or anything. Just something more than:



    A return to the 1990s style of maps instead of modern corridors:



    They should learn from games like Dark Forces 2 and Duke Nukem 3D which both had extremely varied and large maps without pretty much any of the "backpedalling" which stands as major excuse from players whom apparently never actually played any of the old school map type games.

    I'd love to play games with maps like this one from the Episode II of original Doom:



    Looks intimidating? Too labyrinthian? Well, it's filled with secrets and hidden passages but the main route that requires almoust no running back at all unless one is a degenerate and yet the design remains complex and rewarding to explore.
    Last edited by Wilian; 2012-12-31 at 08:50 PM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortera View Post
    I'd rather they not increase the visual capabilities and just increase the scale of things the systems can handle at one time. I'd much more enjoy games with current graphics but a larger world rendered. I really can't stand how every game I play, you can see that the world isn't rendered past 30-50 ft of your character, like in Skyrim. The popup from that knocks me out of my disbelief. It would also be nice to see sandbox games that don't just render pedestrians and vehicles based on where you are and then delete them once they are out of your proximity. I'd like to see GTA 6 or Saint's Row 4 have cars and pedestrians either rendered 100% of the time as if they have their own lives and are unique individuals or, at the very least, render them for double the amount of time they are now.
    That will require a shit ton of CPU power if you want a whole world in a sand box to do that.
    One example of a game that does do that, however not a lot of objects are in place is the X-Ray engine in STALKER.
    I doubt our current computers can do that, don't know about the 3960x though. Though obviously depends on the scale. Just don't expect Saint's Row or GTA to have that. Too big, too many people / object.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    And? It's already been proven that GPU power does matter. PS3 and 360 games look like ass compared to their PC counterparts, so GPU's do matter greatly. The Wii U port of Mass Effect 3 looks a million times better then the PS3 and 360 versions do, despite the fact that it was coded poorly and has some minor frame rate issues, the textures and actually running in HD make it a superior version. These welfare GPU's in the PS3 and 360 can't handle new games without overloading the CPU to run effectively, and they still look like crap. If the next generation lacks anything more then mid range graphics, they are not going to be able to compete with PC graphics, nor will they be able to run new and more advanced game engines like Unreal Engine 4. CPU speed is only a portion of gaming performance, and part of the problem is that development has become so reliant on CPU speed so the GPU didn't matter as much, moving forward the GPU will have to matter in order to code games to run well. CPU speed wouldn't matter if the GPU could handle advanced textures and rendering effectively, and that is why CPU speed won't matter as much next gen, because games will be putting very little strain on GPU's for the first couple of years.

    Also larger worlds equates to a shit load more bugs. I don't want another Skyrim type of game where you can fall through the world at random or run up the side of cliffs on a near 90 degree angle before hitting a wall and falling to your death. And odds are, if you want all those advanced features of a more open world and more unique characters and things, you won't see it on consoles because consoles have to be affordable and they won't ever have the hardware to render those kinds of features effectively.
    You appear to have completely missed the point. As I said, graphics can always be improved on infinitely, HOWEVER, the general public and gamers at large are no longer that concerned about the number of polygons in a scene. When you reach Skyrim~Battlefield 3~Far Cry 3 levels of presentation, people start to care less about visuals being improved further and want higher levels of interactivity.

    What's the point of having the best graphics in the world if the model's only got a handful of pre-set animations? Why is indie gaming so popular with no graphical benefits over the best of today's A-list games? It comes down to the game world on offer and what you can do in it. Minecraft is insanely popular for such a seemingly simple game, quite simply because of the freedom on offer. Why do you think that corpses and physics objects have to disappear in console games, but tend not to (or at least, not in such a short time) on PC's? The textures only have to be loaded the first time, then it's down to the CPU/Ram to maintain the game world around what the player has done.

    If the GPU and graphics as a whole were what consoles gravitated around, the Wii would've failed.

    Game worlds will become bigger and more interactive, regardless of what you think/want. The CPU has to be able to handle that. Even if the play area isn't as big as some sand box games, it's a simple matter of adding authenticity to the world the player is involved in - increasing the number of animations, more time given to AI cycles, reducing load times, more inventive usage of physics, etc, etc.

  5. #105
    God that image of a 1993 map vs a 2010 is depressing.

  6. #106
    I think it will be great if the new consoles are less powerful than current PC's. Will mean developers won't be able to ignore PC's like they did last cycle.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-01 at 03:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by howdydiddlydoo View Post
    They look better MOSTLY because the PC hardware can push resolutions higher.
    Right, because it's so easy to get a PC monitor that's better than 1080p... PC's have better anti-aliasing, but everyone is stuck at ~1080p until higher res screens become mainstream. Which is pretty pathetic considering CRT monitors had higher resolutions than that 12+ years ago.

    Main thing PC's have is more storage, more memory, more CPU power, um more GPU power... pretty much everything but resolution really. And of course they will benefit when next gen consoles force toolkits and artists to go the to next level.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-01 at 03:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BeerWolf View Post
    You'd be an idiot to compare consoles to PCs - you can't expect a next-gen console to have the absolute latest in graphics card, or w/e, to computers of today, simply because the timeline of making the console would already set "newest hardware" back a fair bit before it's finally released, making those components kinda outdated by then....
    You too young to remember the xbox and xbox 360 launches or something? They were practically a full generation ahead of the current PC hardware. It's not like they take some off the shelf part when designing the consoles, they're able to target 'the future' just as the people who make the GPU's are.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by morfraen View Post
    You too young to remember the xbox and xbox 360 launches or something? They were practically a full generation ahead of the current PC hardware. It's not like they take some off the shelf part when designing the consoles, they're able to target 'the future' just as the people who make the GPU's are.
    I think you're the one misremembering. Consoles have never been ahead of the best gaming PCs.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by morfraen View Post

    You too young to remember the xbox and xbox 360 launches or something? They were practically a full generation ahead of the current PC hardware. It's not like they take some off the shelf part when designing the consoles, they're able to target 'the future' just as the people who make the GPU's are.
    Doom 3 was out on PC at the time and Doom 3 on Xbox 360 looked noticeably worse. Also we were playing Battlefield 2, while the 360 chugged trying to handle CoD 2.
    Last edited by Shinzai; 2013-01-01 at 05:17 PM.

  9. #109
    As long as the fable series ends on the 360 im not fussed

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Festisio View Post
    God that image of a 1993 map vs a 2010 is depressing.
    Players have gotten used to the new map system. Going back to an old one, no matter how much more "rewarding" it might feel, is going to put off a huge amount of players.
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  11. #111
    Well I'm not disappointed completely in what will be the next gen. It's been PC over Console when it comes to graphics/physics/resolution/shading/frame rate for as long as I can remember. Anyhow i'm just in it for Mario, Zelda, and Halo. Everything else I either don't care about or could buy for half the price on Steam, so no big deal here. :S
    I guess you could pull out the consoles holding back PC's card though.
    Last edited by Libram; 2013-01-01 at 05:58 PM.

  12. #112
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    I have a Wii U and i love it personally. I can get all my Mario/Zelda games with hope for new metroid games... I don't plan on getting a 720 or PS4 unless of course kingdom hearts 3 comes out exclusive to PS4, then i might have to buy it...
    Wow <3 Korra<3 Giants<3

  13. #113
    *looks at the posts in this thread*

    You guys are smart. Where did you guys learn about all this console technology stuff? Anywhere you want to point out to me? I plan to google some stuff and look but if you have a specific place to guide me, I'd love to educate myself on this topic.

  14. #114
    Deleted
    Cant wait for the PS4 to be released.
    Means the price of PS3's will drop even further and then ill think about buying one =)

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by morfraen View Post
    You too young to remember the xbox and xbox 360 launches or something? They were practically a full generation ahead of the current PC hardware. It's not like they take some off the shelf part when designing the consoles, they're able to target 'the future' just as the people who make the GPU's are.
    I... Uhhh... Err... Wut? O.o

    Full generation ahead of current PC hardware on launch? Did you live in some paraller universe or something? By what outlandish standards they were one generation ahead in their launch?

  16. #116
    The PS Omni is the Gimmick, it turns all TV's into 3d Tv's.

    The PS Omni is the name of the next Playstation.

    There's source for this somewhere, I'll have to look for it again.

    Edit: And source has been delivered.

    http://www.psu.com/a017730/Rumor--PS...September-2013

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekenna View Post
    The PS Omni is the Gimmick, it turns all TV's into 3d Tv's.

    The PS Omni is the name of the next Playstation.

    There's source for this somewhere, I'll have to look for it again.

    Edit: And source has been delivered.

    http://www.psu.com/a017730/Rumor--PS...September-2013
    Seems fair enough to be believable. I can't see Sony putting together a console that they're losing as much as they did per sale as the PS3, so this seems reasonable to me.

  18. #118
    Fluffy Kitten Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rekenna View Post
    The PS Omni is the Gimmick, it turns all TV's into 3d Tv's.

    The PS Omni is the name of the next Playstation.

    There's source for this somewhere, I'll have to look for it again.

    Edit: And source has been delivered.

    http://www.psu.com/a017730/Rumor--PS...September-2013
    It's the rumor.
    I like to quote Markluzz post for this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markluzz View Post
    Let me first say, this is all RUMOR (all though the last two rumors this guy stated were spot on, but much smaller than this), and although there is some small plausibility to some of it, there is a very high chance that much (or all) of this is NOT true. Everytime you state these rumors with any factual evidence behind them a kitten is vicously mauled by a Grizzly Bear.


    http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/co...d-the-next-gen
    http://3dsforums.com/general-gaming-...nextbox-44575/
    Emphasis on the 1st part.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by inux94 View Post
    If you want a pure gaming machine these days all you'll need is an Intel i3-3220 paired with a 7850 & atleast 4GB of RAM, which will be able to run the latest games on high settings 1080p.
    The GPU alone would cost more then a current console. Not including PSU, Case, HD, OS etc.

    I think most people miss the point of consoles. They are suppose to be priced so everyone can access them, while providing a good gaming experience. It's not for everyone. I'm a PC gamer, but I see the point of consoles.

    What bugs me the most is the "well pc looks 10 times better then any console game" which is just an ignorant topic to dwell on.

    1) Consoles are 7 years old, yet are still running the latest games, near the quality of newer mid-ranged PCs. Good luck running Farcry 3 on a 7 year old PC
    2) When sat 5 meters away from the TV, you can't notice the differences anyway.
    3) When did graphics matter that much? I would take an optimized, clean, unbuggy game over a PC port anyday because 80% of the time PC ports are just bad.

    It's not like games on consoles are like GTA 4 and games on PC are like GTA 4 with ienhancer mod. Subtly changes in the way things are rendered, and everyone starts shouting to high heavens about how much consoles graphics suck. Notice how some of the games where graphics aren't an issue (WoW, Minecraft, Indie games) tend to be the ones that get the most support from the community?

  20. #120
    I think it's more about good game development and less about power and the like. The original Crysis for the PC is still the best looking game out there, IMHO, and that game is 5 years old and there has been 5 years of new hardware since and though I've seen a few pretty games since then, I still don't think anything can compare. Hell, even if you compare a game from when 360 and PS3 were new to say, Skyrim, you can see lots of improvements with no new hardware whatsoever. Yep, PCs look better and always will as far as I can tell, but that's also why a high-end PC cost a lot more money. People play on consoles because it's cheaper, easier to just pick up and play (as in low/almost none maintainence), for the ability to play popular games with friends or to play exclusive titles, which is the reason why I own both a ps3 and 360 (neither of which I picked up until the past year or so) in addition to my PC.

    Case in point, consoles look pretty good as it is for what they are and how old the tech inside is....I guess the point of the OP is why pay 5 or 6 hundred dollars or whatever the ridiculous price of the next gen ones for a minor improvement of the generation six ones, plus the inability to play used games if that is true, and that is a good question. But, when you can buy an entire console and possibly even some games and stuff for the price of a top-end video card that only gets you so far with the PC, I think consoles are a pretty good value. If you're looking for top-end graphics comparable to what a made-for PC game can deliver on max settings on a 2,000 plus dollar machine, then you're doing it wrong. Likewise if you think current console graphics look bad on old as shit hardware for a 250 dollar console.
    Last edited by PBitt; 2013-01-02 at 03:19 AM.

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