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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zodrack View Post
    Deathguard Dillinger:

    Speaking frankly, the Forsaken of yesteryear were a sniveling, pathetic group. We huddled together in decrepit old human buildings, hiding from the Scourge, cowering from the Alliance, and groveling at the foot of the Horde.

    Look before you now, and see the product of the new Forsaken. We have made our mark here on Azeroth, and that mark will grow. Our dominion will soon blanket the world!

    You want my advice? Speak with Magistrate Sevren in Brill, down this road. He runs that town.

    I think that describes well what were the Forsaken and what they are now
    They weren't really hiding, cowering or grovelling before.

  2. #222
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    I'm curious about what the High Elves think of the Forsaken. The Blood Elves are sympathetic because of Sylvannas. The High Elves have that same connection.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I'm curious about what the High Elves think of the Forsaken. The Blood Elves are sympathetic because of Sylvannas. The High Elves have that same connection.
    If Quel'lithien and Quel'Danil are any indication, they don't get along.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 12:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    They're not whiny. They've accepted it to a great extent.
    Which is why they planted a second world tree, trying to regain it. ... I see ^^

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post

    Which is why they planted a second world tree, trying to regain it. ... I see ^^
    Putting up a new world tree is not whining, it's doing something about it

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Putting up a new world tree is not whining, it's doing something about it
    Pretty sure there was a lot of whining when it didn't work.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    How are the Night Elves crying over their past in any way?
    I don't know why some of you Alliance players are so much in denial really. You practically frown upon the stuff some of your precious Alliance races having be doing all along, yet if 1 Horde race acts in a similar fashion it's truly horrendous.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Pretty sure there was a lot of whining when it didn't work.
    Pretty sure there was a lot of "whining" when the humans of Lordaeron were turned into undead. Where there's tragedy, there is grief. But the Night Elves don't constantly complain about how bad fate has screwed them over. The new world tree has been blessed some time ago, and while the Night Elves are still mortal, if you look into it just for a bit you'll find that Night Elves have already accepted it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 03:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    I don't know why some of you Alliance players are so much in denial really. You practically frown upon the stuff some of your precious Alliance races having be doing all along, yet if 1 Horde race acts in a similar fashion it's truly horrendous.
    Nice argument, really. Doesn't answer my question at all, but it was still a compelling read. So I ask again, where are the Night Elves crying over their past? Are they running around Darnassus "Oh, the Sundering of the world 10000 years ago, I still cannot understand, why does bad stuff happen to us?". Are masses of Night Elves breaking into tears in the middle of battle "Oh why was our immortality lost to us, why is fate so cruel to us?"

    The Night Elves are probably one of the toughest races on Azeroth. They've been there for a long time, they've witnessed a lot, they fought a lot of battles, they beat down many foes, they've faced many dangers and they brought forth a lot of skilled fighters.

  8. #228
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Illidan was a Night Elf. He stayed super emo for thousands of years about being imprisoned and Tyrande not loving him.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Illidan was a Night Elf. He stayed super emo for thousands of years about being imprisoned and Tyrande not loving him.
    Illidan is quite the exception.
    Traditionally, Night Elves seem to snivel less, and murder more. 'Emo' doesn't exactly describe them. Whether or not their own lust for vengeance is an admirable trait or a despicable one depends on your point of view, I gather...

    When push comes to shove, Night Elves are still pretty much trolls.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Illidan is quite the exception.
    Traditionally, Night Elves seem to snivel less, and murder more. 'Emo' doesn't exactly describe them. Whether or not their own lust for vengeance is an admirable trait or a despicable one depends on your point of view, I gather...

    When push comes to shove, Night Elves are still pretty much trolls.
    There's also the imprisonment itself. Do they have a parole system? Or were they planning on locking him up forever. 10,000 years seems like a really long time to hold a grudge. Malfurion didn't even like Illidan being released when he was.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    The Night Elves are probably one of the toughest races on Azeroth. They've been there for a long time, they've witnessed a lot, they fought a lot of battles, they beat down many foes, they've faced many dangers and they brought forth a lot of skilled fighters.
    I get it dude, you're a Night Elf, and a Alliance fanboy. Nothing wrong with that. Kudos to you, but don't sit there and talk like Alliance races are noble, and how bad Horde is. There's been plenty materials stating how hateful and introverted Night Elves are. "There does seem to be some culture clashes between the night elves and the other races of the Alliance. Traditionalists within night elven society, notably former Archdruid Fandral Staghelm and Warden Maiev Shadowsong, have shown open antagonism or contempt for what they consider to be "lesser races" and "outlanders" (from http://www.wowpedia.org/Night_elves).

    Also, I like how you're sarcastic towards Blood Elves yet, Night Elves banished the use of arcane magic for how many years? Redemption my ass! You guys almost blew up the world and ruined Azeroth, and then look down on your own people that left and still use magic?? Really? How pitiful is that. You guys had 3 cool Night Elves, and 1 of them went mad, 1 decided to sleep for years, and 1 is just sitting there looking pretty while some of your most notable leaders *cough* Fandral *cough* schemed against your own society. But yeah the Forsaken are evil & terrible yada yada yada zzzz

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    To which Sylvanas all to happily took command of. On top of this they had no qualms about trying to kill everybody they came in contact with and as we're aware Sylvanas wanted to kill everyone. Then on top of this we have Southshore which is clearly Forsaken work.
    Oh my, it turns out there was a war there, and someone had to kill someone. And what a horror, they were good at it and fought without hesitation!
    Then we have them enslaving others despite the fact they as a race love to comment on free will, which I call hypocrisy.
    Examples. Raised mages and militia fought together with regular troops. Marshal Redpath and Lilian Voss were let go wherever they wanted.
    I do appreciate the Forsaken have a POV. However just because they have an opinion and/or POV doesn't make it right. I certainly don't think their POV and goals benefit anybody but themselves.
    Isn't it normal to think about themselves? Do humans think about well-being of orcs?
    Last edited by Haven; 2013-01-02 at 05:18 AM.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    I get it dude, you're a Night Elf, and a Alliance fanboy. Nothing wrong with that. Kudos to you, but don't sit there and talk like Alliance races are noble, and how bad Horde is. There's been plenty materials stating how hateful and introverted Night Elves are. "There does seem to be some culture clashes between the night elves and the other races of the Alliance. Traditionalists within night elven society, notably former Archdruid Fandral Staghelm and Warden Maiev Shadowsong, have shown open antagonism or contempt for what they consider to be "lesser races" and "outlanders" (from http://www.wowpedia.org/Night_elves).

    Also, I like how you're sarcastic towards Blood Elves yet, Night Elves banished the use of arcane magic for how many years? Redemption my ass! You guys almost blew up the world and ruined Azeroth, and then look down on your own people that left and still use magic?? Really? How pitiful is that. You guys had 3 cool Night Elves, and 1 of them went mad, 1 decided to sleep for years, and 1 is just sitting there looking pretty while some of your most notable leaders *cough* Fandral *cough* schemed against your own society. But yeah the Forsaken are evil & terrible yada yada yada zzzz
    In their defense, they didn't actually say Night Elves were 'nice.' Just tough.
    Humans are also bloody tough. More so than Night Elves. I'd say humans would actually take the cake in the toughness match, possibly being outshone only by the Silithid.
    Still; the Night Elves are pretty tough. Just not very nice.

  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Illidan was a Night Elf. He stayed super emo for thousands of years about being imprisoned and Tyrande not loving him.
    Now you're just being ridiculous.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 02:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    I get it dude, you're a Night Elf, and a Alliance fanboy.
    Most of my characters are Night Elf, Human or Draenei. I also have two Worgen, but I don't play Gnomes and Dwarves, I never really felt like it. On the Horde side I have less characters, but somehow I play every race, even Goblins. I'm not an Alliance fanboy but recent events make me speak out against the Horde. I would say that the Night Elves are my favourite race, but everything I stated about Night Elves was the unbiased truth. Nobody can deny that they are strong fighters, and painting them as winy saps is just chldish. Just like it is to discredit my opinion because my main is Alliance. Your character is a blood elf, so I can just call you a Horde fanboy as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    Kudos to you, but don't sit there and talk like Alliance races are noble, and how bad Horde is.
    The Alliance's races theme is nobility. Sure there's a bad egg here and there. But generally I would describe them as noble and the Horde races as "wild", to try and not make it sound judgemental.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    There's been plenty materials stating how hateful and introverted Night Elves are.
    No, they're not hateful. Not more or less than any other race. If there is one race I would call hateful, it's the Forsaken. The Night Elves looked down on other races in the past, but the events of WC3 showed them that mortals can earn their respect. They united with them, as they allied with the humans, dwarves, gnomes, draenei and worgen during WoW.

    Introverted? What are they some kid living in the basement playing videogames all day? I don't think introverted is really a fitting term in this context. They seem to be distrustful of outsiders. But I don't see that as a bad thing. That doesn't contradict the concept of nobility. Actually nobility sometimes comes with a bit of arrogance. I mean if you think you're noble, you're probably gonna think less of people who can't keep up with your standards. That doesn't mean that the Horde is free of arrogance either. Especially the Blood Elves, as elves usually are arrogant. You can thank Tolkien for that.

    If you can provide me with a couple of sources where the Night Elves are hateful, maybe I can adress that, but I think hateful is a term that doesn't describe them very well. Do they hate it when the Horde destroys their land in Ashenvale? Do they hate the Horde for what they've done in Theramore? Do they hate the Highborne for blowing up the Well and bringing the Sundering about? Sure. Everybody hates, when there's a reason for it. Like Lor'themar hates the Alliance for throwing out the Sunreavers, even though that was justified. Like everyone else in the Horde even now hates Garrosh.

    People hate. But I don't see the Night Elves sitting around in Darnassus and hating on everyone and everything in the world. They hate those who have deserved their hate. Like everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    "There does seem to be some culture clashes between the night elves and the other races of the Alliance.
    Of course there are. There are cultural clashes between almost all races. There are cultural clashes between Forsaken or the Blood Elves and the other races as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    Traditionalists within night elven society, notably former Archdruid Fandral Staghelm and Warden Maiev Shadowsong, have shown open antagonism or contempt for what they consider to be "lesser races" and "outlanders" (from http://www.wowpedia.org/Night_elves).
    Oh you mean that guy who was corrupted by the old gods and that bitch who killed her own people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    Also, I like how you're sarcastic towards Blood Elves yet, Night Elves banished the use of arcane magic for how many years? Redemption my ass! You guys almost blew up the world and ruined Azeroth, and then look down on your own people that left and still use magic??
    Uhm, it was the Highborne who blew up the well, who later became the High Elves, who later became the Blood Elves. So if you're blaming someone for the Sundering it should be your people, not the Night Elves, as you pointed out, they have banished those exact people, who were responsible for it. Those people didn't leave as you paint it to be. They were thrown out for exactly that reason. And even after the Sundering they haven't learned one bit. They still use magic, even became addicted to it and resorted to meddling with demons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    Really? How pitiful is that. You guys had 3 cool Night Elves, and 1 of them went mad, 1 decided to sleep for years, and 1 is just sitting there looking pretty while some of your most notable leaders *cough* Fandral *cough* schemed against your own society. But yeah the Forsaken are evil & terrible yada yada yada zzzz
    Now you're just being childish.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 02:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    There's also the imprisonment itself. Do they have a parole system? Or were they planning on locking him up forever. 10,000 years seems like a really long time to hold a grudge. Malfurion didn't even like Illidan being released when he was.
    First you're making fun of Illidan for feeling bad about being imprisoned for 10000 years and then you go ahead and defend him and explain how 10000 years seems too hard of a punishment?
    Last edited by mmocedbf46d113; 2013-01-02 at 01:25 PM.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    First you're making fun of Illidan for feeling bad about being imprisoned for 10000 years and then you go ahead and defend him and explain how 10000 years seems too hard of a punishment?
    For immortal beings they don't know how to let things go. Illidan stuck in his brooding for 10,000 years and Malfurion stuck in his anger for 10,000 years. Also, the Night Elves in general for their distaste for the High Elves/Blood Elves thousands of years after the Sundering.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    For immortal beings they don't know how to let things go. Illidan stuck in his brooding for 10,000 years and Malfurion stuck in his anger for 10,000 years. Also, the Night Elves in general for their distaste for the High Elves/Blood Elves thousands of years after the Sundering.
    He was trapped for 10000 years, what else was he gonna do, write a screenplay? And for Malfurion it wasn't about anger. He just thought that Illidan was too much of a threat to walk free.

  17. #237
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    He was trapped for 10000 years, what else was he gonna do, write a screenplay? And for Malfurion it wasn't about anger. He just thought that Illidan was too much of a threat to walk free.
    They could both get over it.

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They could both get over it.
    Well Illidan is dead.

  19. #239
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Well Illidan is dead.
    Merely a setback. Death in WoW is as much a revolving door as it is in comic books.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Illidan_Stormrage#Death
    During the Blizzcon 2010 World of Warcraft Quest and Lore Q&A panel, Chris Metzen was asked about the possibility of Illidan being revived or redeemed, and Metzen replied that it was something he would really like to do and that he is a sucker for a good redemption story.[12]

    At the Blizzcon 2011 World of Warcraft Open Q&A panel, Metzen was again asked about reviving Illidan. He asked the crowd if it was something they would like to see, the crowd exploded and cheered in response, and he said they would work on it.[13] He later revisited the topic during the World of Warcraft Lore Q&A panel, after being asked about the dead bodies of important villains. Metzen indicated that based on fan reaction they would most likely bring Illidan back, and would have to decide on a way to revive him, noting that his corpse would be very significant.[13]

  20. #240
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    Jesus, you're almost as annoying as I am.

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