Are rogues a dying class?

[Coldkil]

Bringing my two cents.

Mostly everything has been said from "we're useless" to "rogues were OP once and have never been realy bad".

First: both are true.

Second: it's a class design problem. If someone goes to read all forum posts from late LK to MoP beta, you can find pretty much the same thing over and over (coming from good/experienced rogues) - the class needs a redesign. It's true that the core mechanics work still good after 8 years, and it's also true that rewoking a class isn't an easy task. But not even the new talents are going to change much. Explaination:

- Cloak and Dagger is ShS for openers, just to not make ShS mandatory; very probably everyone will get this + BoS.
- Prep as baseline won't change much into gameplay
- Marked for Death is a cool, useful, another cooldown. Pop it, kill mob, repeat. In boss fights, 1 more finisher evey X time. More interesting for PvP for sure.

While there are some good things, the fact is that we will still spam combo generator - finisher. Keep up snd and rupture etc etc. Which is the same thing we're doing by 8 years. That's what needs to change.

Nerfing BF to the ground won't make other specs more appealing for cleave fights. It will just make people to redo the math, and if BF still stays superior, we will still use combat for every cleave fight. If BF becomes useless, you will go for the best single target spec making the class actually a one-spec.

And that's only PvE. PvP is more complicated to talk about, due to the more variables included - still it's plagued by FotM rerollers, so the more represented class will always be the strongest one, and don't talk about balance because everyone knows that every season a best combo comes to light (in any case, skilled people can play a rubber duck and still own).

Peace

[Paladin885]

agree with the above. I've been playing a rogue as an alt for nearly 2 x-packs now and nothing really has changed. Spam combo pts, rebuff the bleeds and debuffs/self buffs, repeat with a finisher, then repeat step 1.

I like them in pvp because they feel like my main, a paladin (who I heal pve and ret pvp), and both of them have "if, than" CDs and utilities for almost everything (well, now almost everything).

I think that needs to be incorporated into the class for pve and not just pvp. I mean, seriously... other melee classes have at least 2 abilities they use with the other attacks being secondary (attacks that proc and/or cost rage/rp/hp/etc).

[discoepfeand]

I liked having a big toolkit and not dying in stuns in cata and before. Maybe that was overpowered (I never had vial of shadows or legendary daggers), but it was fun to play.

I think the really unexpected thing is that so many people in forums were asking to have energetic recovery moved from Recuperate to SnD. Now that it's happened, a lot of people hate it.

Having the fun of having prep, combat readiness, improved recuperate, deadly throw, feint for AoE reduction, shadowstep, prep, and dirty tricks all in the same build was a massive toolkit of fun. Now that they've taken these away, it's less fun, regardless of the numbers.

But I won't lie, the numbers help too. I leveled a warrior this xpac to see what pvp was like, and I did much better in BGs never having pvp'd with a warrior before, in crafted iLvl 450 gear and a 463 BOE pve weapon, than I'm doing now with a rogue which I've played since 2004 with 13/14 Dreadful glad, 1/14 malev glad, and the iLevel 480 BoE dagger.

I never had a problem with rogues not changing much because there were so many tricks we could use. Now that they've taken away some of the tricks, it does feel dull since we don't have big numbers also. My warrior kit feels smaller than my rogue's (maybe cause I'm new to him), but he's still fun to play since I wtfpwn with great fury and rawrs.

[xlord]

i used to like my rogue, but atm we are no longer the best stealth class, assa is boring as most dps is from autoattacks + poison (and its the spec i prefer above the others ).
but as 5.2 didn't change much about this (hoped they would be guessed they wouldn't), i think it's time to go back to my lock.

[Deleted]

Ive been playing the 5.2 PTR with my mate since it hit the servers and all i can say is that rogues are fkn insane atm on ptr.

If any of you rogues have thought about coming back, 5.2 is the time to do so. There will be rogues EVERYWHERE along with monks.

As a caster im really looking forward to this... not...

[Ryme]

Ive been playing the 5.2 PTR with my mate since it hit the servers and all i can say is that rogues are fkn insane atm on ptr.

If any of you rogues have thought about coming back, 5.2 is the time to do so. There will be rogues EVERYWHERE along with monks.

As a caster im really looking forward to this... not...

That really helps explain what's going on, with this new information we can now provide useful feedback and begin to debate what looks good and what doesn't.

Yeah, could you try that again? What's happening to cause what you're feeling?

[Deleted]

That really helps explain what's going on, with this new information we can now provide useful feedback and begin to debate what looks good and what doesn't.

Yeah, could you try that again? What's happening to cause what you're feeling?

The patch notes are official for you to watch if you are interested in seeing whats happening on paper.
Im just saying that it just doesnt LOOK good on paper, it is in reality some very good changes.

If you want a full on explanation on every mechanic and all the numbers then you need to go to elitist jerks or something.

You would like it there it seems

[Ryme]

The patch notes are official for you to watch if you are interested in seeing whats happening on paper.
Im just saying that it just doesnt LOOK good on paper, it is in reality some very good changes.

If you want a full on explanation on every mechanic and all the numbers then you need to go to elitist jerks or something.

You would like it there it seems

I'm sorry, I'm the one at fault here? Did you even read your post? You just spouted useless rubbish in anticipation of a response, you got one, calling you out. You have no real data, no real insights and until you do, your posts on these things are moot and at the very best, a personal opinion.

[Coldkil]

I don't know what you take as good, but if you're referring to the obvious MfD - KS - SD - Ambush/Finisher spam - dead trick, first it's a PvP-only issue, which will probably be addressed very soon, depending on how powerful it is (and i expect the nerf).

We're talking about the general feeling - the class just feels stale. It's not about numbers, recount, or PvP representation. It's the fact that no changes due to good mechanics and original design has lead to a steady decline from LK to nowadays which hasn't been solved even with free dedicated legendaries.

Rogues were OP as hell at the end of Cata, especially in PvP. Still, they were one of the least played class.

EDIT: calling rogues a dying class maybe it's too much. But we're not in a good situation. People finding the class not entertaining (myself included) tend not to roll an alt, they just leave the game especially if they have played for a long time.

I left the game in november for RL reasons, but now i'm not finding any reason to return on my rogue, even with 5.2 patch.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry, I'm the one at fault here? Did you even read your post? You just spouted useless rubbish in anticipation of a response, you got one, calling you out. You have no real data, no real insights and until you do, your posts on these things are moot and at the very best, a personal opinion.

If you say so!

[discoepfeand]

Ive been playing the 5.2 PTR with my mate since it hit the servers and all i can say is that rogues are fkn insane atm on ptr.

If any of you rogues have thought about coming back, 5.2 is the time to do so. There will be rogues EVERYWHERE along with monks.

As a caster im really looking forward to this... not...

What happened in the pvp you've done on the PTR that made you say this?

[Luko]

I'm sorry, I'm the one at fault here? Did you even read your post? You just spouted useless rubbish in anticipation of a response, you got one, calling you out. You have no real data, no real insights and until you do, your posts on these things are moot and at the very best, a personal opinion.

I have NO idea why people keep going on about "Rogues are OP again!" It's literally all you hear on the PTR. There are rogues everywhere like a plague and I find myself sitting on the server, scratching my head going ".... what?!" I jumped into one of those crap PTR guilds and bugged the shit out of people ranting about rogues. "Could you explain to me why rogues are so "op" now?" No one had an answer.

It's truly bizarre. It's like people saw patch notes, lost a few duels with their premade warrior and starting a domino effect about how the sky was falling and everyone just sort of jumped on board. It's the weirdest shit.

[Ryme]

Possibly because it's the first "fun" change and/or improvement we've had in years and the end of cata is still fresh in everyone's minds. Remember Ret 3.0 that last all of what, two weeks? They carried the stigma of being buffed too much and omg ret's op again for all of wrath and some of cata.