Poll: Which?

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  1. #61
    that is actually TRUE communism, what we have seen thus far in the world is Maoism, Stalinism, and the only one even relatively close has been Cuba's Marxism.

    under true communism

    . There is no money
    . There is no military
    . There is freedom of speech
    . there is no religion


    under the true capitalism with absolutely no intervention you can look at Somalia.

  2. #62
    Legendary! Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warlocked View Post
    that is actually TRUE communism, what we have seen thus far in the world is Maoism, Stalinism, and the only one even relatively close has been Cuba's Marxism.
    Yugoslavia too.

  3. #63
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    We mostly live in mixed economies to varying degrees, and we have all experienced the damage too much regulation or too little regulation has caused. It's about moderation at the end of the day. All these choices encompass or endorse some of the worst excesses and consequences of the 20th century, so I think I'll go with the horrified "I'm just 12 years old and what is this?" response, as if that position needed undermining.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    And many other people work hard and can never climb in the social stair. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, the power in a completely unregulated market lies in those with more money. Its the law of the jungle, where lions do what they want and bambies get to run or be food.

    Go tell how good capitalism is to the 8 year old kids working on crop fields helping their father to get enough food just to feed themselves.

    Most people, while not being controlled, do bad things. The balance needs to be in favor or regulation or things get out of control. Things are too little regulated everywhere and thats how we are so bad.
    Yeah, I absolutely agree, the vast majority of ppl (on global scale) work hard just so they can have food on the table, they can only dream about luxuries like PC,TV, Phone, Internet etc. And it isnt because they dont work "hard enough", it is because capitalism can thrive only when other suffer, the rich are richer but poor are poorer.

    The profit from their hard work is taken (stolen) and exported to the "West", thats why US, Europe are wealthy, because someone else (cheap labour) works on them.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Toxigen's Avatar
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    Anyone not voting for Capitalism is either lazy, under-educated, or just plain ol' incapable.

    Gotta work and take risks to make money...I don't want to share the fruits of my labor with my fellow countrymen (just my family, friends, neighbors, etc)...most of whom I can't stand anyway.
    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
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    Not finding-a-cock-on-your-girlfriend-is-normal level of odd, but nevertheless, still odd.

  6. #66
    Bloodsail Admiral bekilrwale's Avatar
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    Fascism. Real communism might also be good, but none of these actually implemented "communisms".
    "Death is not kind. It's dark, black as far as you can see, and you're all alone."

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    Anyone not voting for Capitalism is either lazy, under-educated, or just plain ol' incapable.

    Gotta work and take risks to make money...I don't want to share the fruits of my labor with my fellow countrymen (just my family, friends, neighbors, etc)...most of whom I can't stand anyway.
    You do realize that under capitalism people work for pennies. In extreme capitalism you would work for only the essentials for you to survive, if you think that your boss will give any more money than that then you don't understand this thread at all. True capitalism is about the 0.001% living like gods and the rest living like rats.

  8. #68
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    In a perfect world, communism, but going on history, fascism. Because if you kept your head down in Hitler's Germany, you were mostly OK, but in Stalin's Russia, you were starving unless you were a party member.

  9. #69
    it's very telling how many of you think communism is a great thing (in it's pure form) i wonder if it's your youth(people tend to forget the horrible things of the past/and the average age of members on this site is what 25?) or the shift in the world to a more leftist mentality(give me something for nothing)?

    every country that has "tried" communism has killed it's own people in vast numbers. the idea of a true form of communism as being a good form of government is just not based in fact. when you have a strong central government you will have an oppressive government period. this is why the current shift in the US to a more powerful statist government is frightening to many, and something the founders clearly did not want, yet it has slowly but surely came to be. the US only has a matter of time before it's downfall is complete and the rest of the world will feel the pain just as stongly as the US population will.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Anarchy on an economic level though isn't really the same thing. Most of the people you see running around spray painting the A logo all over town and fighting with the police are actually communists, they just don't believe in state-run communism, they think it should be like a collective effort on the part of all members of society to keep each other afloat by pooling all of their resources among themselves by mutual agreement, with no overseeing body to enforce or enact law.

    Works great if you're a group of 5 friends following Phish around in a van all summer, but if you're an industrious person with ideas and desire to create and progress then not so much.
    Anarchism is a much broader concept then what you just described, there is anarcho capitalism that would be very beneficial to someone with financial muscles. It would suck pretty hard for anyone who is moderately succesful or wealthy though.... and for the poor of course... and the middle class.... it would suck for anyone but the very wealthy really. ;P
    Last edited by Jackmoves; 2013-01-03 at 08:55 PM.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  11. #71
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawney View Post
    it's very telling how many of you think communism is a great thing (in it's pure form) i wonder if it's your youth(people tend to forget the horrible things of the past/and the average age of members on this site is what 25?) or the shift in the world to a more leftist mentality(give me something for nothing)?

    every country that has "tried" communism has killed it's own people in vast numbers. the idea of a true form of communism as being a good form of government is just not based in fact. when you have a strong central government you will have an oppressive government period. this is why the current shift in the US to a more powerful statist government is frightening to many, and something the founders clearly did not want, yet it has slowly but surely came to be. the US only has a matter of time before it's downfall is complete and the rest of the world will feel the pain just as stongly as the US population will.
    All first world countries (read: highest levels of happiness and well-being, lowest infant mortality, highest income mobility, lowest levels of malnourishment, highest level of freedom) are all socialist in nature. They all have robust welfare programs and have some form of protection for the sickest, the youngest, and the oldest in their societies.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  12. #72
    For me the correct choice is the benevolent dictator. So far none has ever come to exist but the idea is sound, an individual dedicated towards doing whatever is best for his/her nation no matter the cost (often the public act contrary to what is actually best for them i.e. pay the bill now instead of leaving it for the next generation to sort or sacrifice some comfort to correct the damage done to our environment). Such an individual would likely be deeply unpopular as placing the long term (often thinking generations in advance) needs of the majority first would be a cornerstone of such a rule and would require so choice many would find controversial. Such an individual would also need to be divorced from any singular bias such as gender, race or religion.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawney View Post

    every country that has "tried" communism has killed it's own people in vast numbers. the idea of a true form of communism as being a good form of government is just not based in fact. when you have a strong central government you will have an oppressive
    The living standart was much higher before 1989 in my country then it is now. Most of the people I met and talked to has confirmed me that.

    Some numbers:

    Average monthly wage today: 550 €
    Sugar 1kg = 1,1€
    Milk 1 l = 0.8€
    Loaf of bread 1kg = 1,3€
    an egg = 0.16€
    rent = 250€
    gasoline 1l = 1.4€
    after paying rent = 300 € (54.5%, left for you)
    appartment 50m2 = 40 000 €
    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    Average monthly wage before 1989: 2500 Kčs
    Sugar 1kg = 7 Kčs
    Milk 1 l = 2 Kčs
    Loaf of bread 1kg = 4 Kčs
    an egg = 0.7 Kčs
    rent = 300 Kčs
    gasoline 1l = 7 Kčs
    after paying rent = 2200 Kčs (88% left for you)
    appartment = free from state
    Last edited by mmoc74dbc71507; 2013-01-03 at 09:31 PM.

  14. #74
    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatlatitla View Post
    The living standart was much higher before 1989 in my country then it is now. Most of the people I met and talked to has confirmed me that.
    So you tie a subjective feeling" living standard" to mean the previous form of government was better? Why not try to read history, specifically how many people were murdered in these oppressive regimes? In Russia, china, and other enlightened countries millions were slaughtered that didn't toe the line. In china some even resorted to canabalism. Not due to starvation but to eat to "horrible" business owners that communists hate so much.
    Last edited by tawney; 2013-01-03 at 09:21 PM.

  15. #75
    Bloodsail Admiral larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Capitalism, because hard work pays and laziness is not rewarded. Only practical option, both communism and fascism fail in practice (they are actually the same).

  16. #76
    Scarab Lord DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    Fascism is tyranny. Communism either is tyranny or would lead to tyranny as in pure communism there is nothing that would prevent the eventual rise of one who takes the power. Pure capitalism is not tyranny but would lead to tyranny as in pure capitalism there is nothing that would prevent the eventual rise of one who takes the power.

    Pure capitalism is the best of the three bad options. Pure capitalism with just a pinch of what Carnegie envisioned (making it not entirely pure capitalism but regardless) is what I think would be best over absolute purity of any of the three.
    Last edited by DEATHETERNAL; 2013-01-03 at 09:36 PM.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
    Revelation 6:8

  17. #77
    "Government" is just a word for things we do together. "Capitalism" is just a word for things we do together voluntarily.

  18. #78
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawney View Post
    [/COLOR]

    So you tie a subjective feeling" living standard" to mean the previous form of government was better? Why not try to read history, specifically how many people were murdered in these oppressive regimes? In Russia, china, and other enlightened countries millions were slaughtered that didn't toe the line. In china some even resorted to canabalism. Not due to starvation but to eat to "horrible" business owners that communists hate so much.
    The atrocities committed by countries and their leaders in the 20th century were not because of an ideology. Pol pot, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, ad nauseum were all authoritarian dictators. None of them followed the true tenets of their followings. Perversions, just like in religion, man corrupted.

    Again,all first world countries (read: highest levels of happiness and well-being, lowest infant mortality, highest income mobility, lowest levels of malnourishment, highest level of freedom) are all socialist in nature. They all have robust welfare programs and have some form of protection for the sickest, the youngest, and the oldest in their societies.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 10:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    Fascism is tyranny. Communism either is tyranny or would lead to tyranny as in pure communism there is nothing that would prevent the eventual rise of one who takes the power. Pure capitalism is not tyranny but would lead to tyranny as in pure capitalism there is nothing that would prevent the eventual rise of one who takes the power.

    Pure capitalism is the best of the three bad options. Pure capitalism with just a pinch of what Carnegie envisioned (making it not entirely pure capitalism but regardless) is what I think would be best over absolute purity of any of the three.
    No first world country is purely capitalistic. All first world countries (read: highest levels of happiness and well-being, lowest infant mortality, highest income mobility, lowest levels of malnourishment, highest level of freedom) are all socialist in nature. They all have robust welfare programs and have some form of protection for the sickest, the youngest, and the oldest in their societies.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  19. #79
    Bloodsail Admiral larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    No first world country is purely capitalistic. All first world countries (read: highest levels of happiness and well-being, lowest infant mortality, highest income mobility, lowest levels of malnourishment, highest level of freedom) are all socialist in nature. They all have robust welfare programs and have some form of protection for the sickest, the youngest, and the oldest in their societies.
    Homogeneous countries with less than 6 million people each. Big countries with robust welfare programs are on the brink of a cliff (France, UK, Italy...) Economics is not a "hard" science, you can't compare countries because not two countries are exactly the same. You can't experiment keeping "other things equal".

  20. #80
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    Homogeneous countries with less than 6 million people each. Big countries with robust welfare programs are on the brink of a cliff (France, UK, Italy...) Economics is not a "hard" science, you can't compare countries because not two countries are exactly the same. You can't experiment keeping "other things equal".
    Are you suggesting that the first world countries are going to lose their first world status? There is no clff for them, they will pull through and the Euro will stya strong.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

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