Should we kill Sylvanas instead of Garrosh?

[Deleted]

The problem about this is, they hate the people who afflicted them with this curse, i mean before Cata their only motive was vengeance on the Lich King for bringing this curse of Undeath upon them.

Now they bring this very same curse upon others.

So you want them to cease to exist after they got their vengeance? While LK was their primary goal, the Alliance threated them like shit since the moment their race appeared on Azeroth, even though they knew that they arent bound to the LKs will anymore. And honestly, even if they hated what they become it doesnt mean that they wont be satisfied with their transformation, the Forsaken who get ressed and dont go back into their graves are very well okay with it. Also, DKs dont seem to hate what LK made out of them, he wanted to use them as gun powder against Tirion, which they got their revenge for, but over all they're happy being DKs.

From a military standpoint the Forsaken are the strongest force of the playable, they are Undead which allows them survive any prolonged Siege and they got the Plague, which pretty much the Nuclear Bomb of WoW.

From any point of view, the Forsaken are the weakest because they cant reproduce. Compare them with:

- Night Elves: used to be immortal, most of them are over 10,000 years old if not older. They got Priests and Druids (along with their demigods) sects on their side, which power they feed off. They call uppon tree soldiers during war - doubt those give a damn about some gas thrown at them.

- Dreanei: I dont know if they're immortal, but if you travel 25,000 years through the galaxy you have kind of be so. With the Naaru and Velen on their side they arent exactly weak.

You simply cant compare any other WoW race to this two. Blizzard is holding their true powers back in favour of not causing more lore fuck ups.

Sylvanas commited crimes as well, personally i blame her for keeping Varimathras as Majordomo of her City and it's consequences coming from that.

Could we stop accusing someone of war crimes? Its a purely objective thing in WoW - dont use RL logic on WoW. Also, Varimathras actually proved his loyalty by killing one of his brothers (thats a terrible no-go for Dreadlords).

Using that logic, you could blame Thrall for leaving the Warchief position to Garrosh or any other similiar situation ever happened in WoW.

And in terms of personality they got very close, both persons take any tool available to them to aqcuire more, no matter the consequences.

What consequences other than death for the opposite faction are we actually talking about?

I despise Garrosh since MoP, he's a dick, no discussion about it.

But Sylvanas has a fanbase which i cannot explain without saying that comes down to the fact that she's a female character.

She was cool in Wc3, in WoW she mostly achieves victory by using the Plague, a product of the person who betrayed and nearly killed her.

She has a fanbase because of her wastly development background and story. Actually, one of the few faction leaders who're doing something. Also, she fought against the LK 1v1 in WotLK and her Forsaken wiped out the Scarlette Crusade in Dragonblight. She is cunning and clever and using the Plague as a weapon is the most efficient way to not waste more of her already low population.

Doubt is more honorable to get killed by a mace breaking your head or an arrow penetrating your body over being turned into slime by the Plague. Forsaken are different than your usual living race and she wouldnt have to bolster her defenses if humans accepted them as what they are.

[Boogieknight]

What's this "instead of" crap? Is there a reason I can't kill both?

[Skorpionss]

her short story says other wise

they are just arrows in her quiver

they are NO LONGER just arrows in her quiver... at lest bother to read and quote the whole damn phrase...

[Sorraxe]

Off-topic, i think faction leaders will be involved in the Siege of Orgrimmar raid aiding the raid against Garrosch. I dont think thrall will be involved in this time, but Voljin, Sylavanas will definetly be there. Unlike Yogg Saron, i think the aiding part is included in the regular fight. Maybe there will be some kind of option to remove there help for ''Achievement'' glory kill or something.

But no, i dont want Sylvanas to die, and i dont think this is the last expansion where she is in the spotlight. There will be a day she will have another plote of her own together with the systers.

[Skorpionss]

Anyway lorewise I doubt Sylvanas and the Val'kyr are going anywhere anytime soon... how would new undead characters come into existence ? unless they plan to remove undead as a playable race then I don't see it happening... they need a way to keep the numbers at least stable if not growing and only way to do that is with Val'kyr... at least for now...

[Giants41]

I love Sylvanas !!

[Rhlor]

sylvanas is a great leader of the horde.

[Bluey111]

No, Garrosh is a hot head that can't think straight for 5 minutes, Sylvanas disobeyed because her people would have become extinct if she had not done so. Even Thrall thinks Garrosh isn't fit to be the leader of the horde as shown through that quest line in cata

[Wildberry]

Considering using the Plague against Warchief's orders and the whole Lich King 2.0 business nowadays, I honestly don't see how you can say Garrosh is the worse of the two...

Oh and Garrosh is actually pretty good with tactics, toss morality out the window, and Theramore was brilliant.

[foxHeart]

wrong, they are her shield, and she won't let people destroy her shield. they were her arrows, up until the lich king died.

k, that was interpreted completely incorrectly, somehow. lol

They are her shield - they protect her, not the other way around. She became scared because she realized what was waiting for her after death, this is why she changed her strategy, not because she suddenly developed a single benevolent bone in her body. It was not her intent to say she now desired to protect them - it never, ever was in spite of how the forsaken sheepishly follow her around like she cares about them - it was her intent to say 'oh shit, i've been a bad girl and hell is waiting for me, better stay alive and use these assholes to protect myself as long as I can'.

[Deleted]

Whichever drops the highest ilvl gear.

But seriously, some of the responses here are scary. It's just a game, these are just characters in a game, they haven't and can't hurt anyone.

[TheDangerZone]

Considering using the Plague against Warchief's orders and the whole Lich King 2.0 business nowadays, I honestly don't see how you can say Garrosh is the worse of the two...

Oh and Garrosh is actually pretty good with tactics, toss morality out the window, and Theramore was brilliant.

Theramore was not brilliant at all. At the end, he made that city and all their inhabitants martyrs of the Alliance. Nortwatch stands again, so the alliance still has their foothold Southern Kalimdor. Theramore was a gambit, a risky one, and it failed. It led to the ultimate return of the Kirin Tor to the alliance and a far more ruthless stance for Jaina, one of the few alliance leaders that advocated diplomacy with the horde.

The attack on Theremore might have been devastating, but it was shortsighted as fuck.

Sylvanas, on the other hand, has been incredibly measured and savvy of her resources (And even so, she got a bullet in the head. Garrosh has pissed a lot of more people) Now she stands like the most firm power in Lordaeron, even turning the almost disastrous reunification of Gilneas to the alliance in a stalemate.

[Haven]

Or, she is actually one of the characters with the richest story in this universe and people are argueing for whatever reason that she commits "war crimes" by killing the opposite faction.

Haha, well said

---------- Post added 2013-01-04 at 07:43 AM ----------

They were barely able to hold their own against a group of Worgen Survivors

Yeah, like that time when you alone slaughter 50 worgen with a cannon while they try to swim through the lake.

and had to resort to using not military based methods (Blackmail/Threaten) to attain what is a temporary victory.

It's war. Everything works in love and war.

Th Forsaken are definitely stronger than they once were but I still don't think they're as strong as the other races. So far their attacks have very much been sudden large scale shock and awe attacks, and now that the Humans are fully aware of what they up against they'll be prepared.

So far, Andorhal showed that Stormwind's preparations better include vaseline.

[Bosen]

I think they should find some way to restore Sylvannas and she can lead the Bloodelves. Give the Forsaken a new leader.

[Lord Pebbleton]

African Americans were slaves for centuries of America. Now, we live as equals with them. See how that works?

Gilneas was closed to keep "other people's troubles" out of Greymane's kingdom. It was built to separate his kingdom from the weaknesses of the Alliance. Also, attacking Gilneas during the cataclysm was Garrosh's command. The only "crime" Sylvannas commited was bringing dead Gileans to life to fight for the Undead.

I'm really failing to see what real crimes Sylvannas has commited. So far, it's all been Garrosh.

I don't think you can compare real life to WoW.
I have nothing against Africans, they are people just like me and you, and i don't like racism anyway.
But apart from the fact that the Worgen were slaves and closed behind Greymane's Wall, they are also wolves standing on two legs. I used to tame wolves with my hunter. It just feels... weird.
Even the architecture of their buildings feel out of WoW era to me.

I don't know what crimes Sylvanas committed and i don't know others' reasons, i just dislike her deeply because she opposed to Arthas. I dislike Illidan, too. I'd have loved to become The Lich King's undead champion.

[Maximus Testiculos]

She spent most of warcraft saying ' what are we if not slaves to this torment' , hating her condition and then now she kills people, steals their afterlife, raises them to undead without their will, throws plagues indiscrimenantly, melts whole towns with all the people in it.

Why did we even fight kelthuzad and the scourge if killing people and turning them to undead was an okay thing? She looks worse than kelthuzad now, at least he had the willing undead 'the cult of the damned'. Orcs' whole theme was hating the demons , how could they not see that she had a high ranking demon lord as her advisor.

Many groups and tribes were exterminated for less bad actions. I think she does not deserve any praise.

[Jawless Jones]

we must kill slyvanus because the forskan are evil and must be purged with rithgeous fire and alliance always belongs to lorderon

RARRGH I AM BIAS LORDERON FANBOY WHO ACTUALLY DOESNT CARE ABOOT LORE AT ALL HEAR ME RAWR

edit: also theres no such thing as a warcrime in azeroth coz theres no-one to deem anything a warcrime, where as we have the UN and humanitarian rights which dictate what is and what isnt a warcrime and is acceptable in a time of war... the forsaken are incapable of commiting a warcrime because no such thing exists in WoW

WAKE UP PEOPLE, FREE YOUR MINDS

[Maximus Testiculos]

People gave clear reasons why sylvanas does not deserve anything but you brush them away by saying you are all lordaeron fanboys even though some of them do not even play the alliance or care about an alliance lordaeron.

[Scummer]

It's war. Everything works in love and war.

You must be BFF with Garrosh then .

[Jawless Jones]

i didnt say sylvanas derserved anything either, im just pointing out that the majority of people are saying sylvanas deserves death and whatnot because they are biased towards the notion of a human controlled lordaeron