Bias against Freebs

[RoninaThorstone]

Good luck in changing f2p to free subscription.

What? You mean like Aion US?
Or like how in lotro you can earn turbine coins to unlock everything?

Personally, I prefer the ability to earn unlocks like most F2P games. Its a shame swtor bars hard mode + and ranked regardless of anything. Also, makeb.

In lotro you could unlock expansions with turbine coins which can be earned in game.

So which f2ps have you tried?

[Codyak]

What did they expect from a game that offered nothing new and made you bored within 5 minutes of playing it.

[Deleted]

Any f2p Ive tried that was at a minimum decent was like this. Its the primary reason I didn't come back to swtor. They should've kept it sub cut the servers in half and given it more than 7 months before shitcanning it. Such potential and fun ruined by greed. Good luck in changing f2p to free subscription.

¨

I'm an avid defender of a F2P model which... Hm, y'know what? Let me bring in the ol' Carrot vs. Whip example.

SW:TORs model has been designed as a punishment. They focus on taking stuff away from you. They purposely limit your playstyle and specifically or constantly advertise "If you sub or pay us money, you can unlock X feature". That's the whip. You punish people for not paying you money.

The model -I- support is the carrot. A model which is hard to implement in a game that already runs, granted, but works to reward your subscribers instead. When SW:TOR went free to play, you got the choice. Continue paying and you keep the stuff you got or stop paying and we'll take it away untill you pay us. You can argue untill the cows come home that loyal subs got rewarded with cartel coins and all that, but end of the day, that was essentially what happened. Between you and me, don't you think - if we apply this logic from the game and to an independant situration, that it seems more like a hostage situration? A situration where a developer is holding content hostage untill you pay a ransom for it?

It makes me sick. It makes me angry to see the way SW:TOR's F2P is designed. Microtransactions is such a WONDERFUL tool which can be used to create such great things for the gaming community and industry as a whole. But you don't whip people into paying, you lure them. Not by constantly showing them what they're missing out on, but by showing them "You could ALSO have this stuff" but making it more of a choice and less of an enforced decition.

When this model was introduced I said it and I stand by it to this day. This model was rushed and is the prime example of greed and frustration from the developers. What if; The developers (Note: I'll keep saying "Developers" to avoid name or company bashing, or to have words taken out of context in my description) had sat down and spent some time designing new and exciting rewards for subscribing. Many other games have had an easy time by simply designing quality of life material and it often makes players go "Oh, I'd love that, and I think it's worth it!".

While I have no doubt the intention of the punishment was designed to show current subscribers "Continue to pay or else.." you have to wonder where along the roads it became accepable for us, as a consumer base, to sit down and justify this cruel method of griefing. While you could argue, "They're only harming themselves, what do you care?" I'll say, I care because I -am- a consumer. I was a consumer of their product and I -was- planning to continue being so untill I stopped being able to play the game without feeling dubious moral issues with myself.

If I can support a branch of the industry that purposely tries to make their consumers lives more difficult if they are not paid money, how can I possibly call myself anything but just as bad as they?

I can't.

But I digress, I seem to have spun off topic and I am truely sorry about that. This issue just means alot to me, as it represents a dark stain on the gaming community as a whole, and will hopefully serve as an example in the future where developers will look at SW:TOR's F2P model and say "That is what we should strive to avoid". F2P is amazing. F2P is the modern technology of where YOU pay for what YOU want to enjoy, not because you feel forced to, but because you WANT to. Let's aim to have more of that.

But OT: Uh.. Yeah, I got some flame for being F2P, never hated on anyone while I was a sub, though. I guess my signature should kind of clarify why not and make this whole final part of the post self explanatory =)

[notorious98]

What did they expect from a game that offered nothing new and made you bored within 5 minutes of playing it.

Kind of similar to this comment, except I was bored within 2 seconds.

[Argroth]

Any f2p Ive tried that was at a minimum decent was like this. Its the primary reason I didn't come back to swtor. They should've kept it sub cut the servers in half and given it more than 7 months before shitcanning it. Such potential and fun ruined by greed. Good luck in changing f2p to free subscription.

Agreed to the bold part but that dosn't mean that people should be mean to F2P.

[Deleted]

No. It's not what "f2p is".

It's what people like you make it by expecting and accepting it as.

People like you. Glad there is no bias in this forum. Against anybody. Ever. We should - maybe - respect that there is no commonly accepted definition of "free to play", also that some people who pay 15 bucks get their money's worth and even more farfetched according to this forum even some people who pay nothing also get their money's worth.

Back on topic. Yes it happens. It's also extremely rare. There's also bias against girl's, young players, old players, people coming from WoW, people without MMO experience, pve'rs, pvp'rs. All that is rare too. Compared to WoW and Guild Wars the community is magnitudes more mature, helpful and friendly. YMMV.

[Deleted]

Back on topic. Yes it happens. It's also extremely rare. There's also bias against girl's, young players, old players, people coming from WoW, people without MMO experience, pve'rs, pvp'rs. All that is rare too. Compared to WoW and Guild Wars the community is magnitudes more mature, helpful and friendly. YMMV.

This is what I have encountered. There are a few idiots around who will hate on anybody for any reason and because it is current they choose the F2Pers, but on the whole the community is pleasant and helpful. That said I usually play from 21:30 so the number of immature players has usually reduced by then, /general does tend to get more 'interesting' (for the wrong reasons) the earlier in the evening I play.

[RoninaThorstone]

People like you. Glad there is no bias in this forum. Against anybody. Ever.

I would have also accepted "I've called the NAACP".

[ruzdu]

I am playing on a German server and have yet to see people really go at unsubed players. What I see sometimes is when someone complains too much about f2p not giving you enough stuff that they should subscribe.

[derpkitteh]

i think it's just a new form of trolling. i'll be running along on a planet, and out of no where randomguy39842049 will /rage in general "stoopid f2p nubs making servers crash" then an argument always follows. i think it was real towards the beginning of f2p, but when people noticed how easy it was to get an argument going with it, it turned to trolling.

[Kelimbror]

i think it's just a new form of trolling. i'll be running along on a planet, and out of no where randomguy39842049 will /rage in general "stoopid f2p nubs making servers crash" then an argument always follows. i think it was real towards the beginning of f2p, but when people noticed how easy it was to get an argument going with it, it turned to trolling.

Unfortunately it's mostly real and not trolling. The majority of SWTOR players, like we've said, are basically out to have an elite tea party. One where no one is invited so there winds up being no tea or biscuits to consume.

[Deleted]

Doesn't suprise me. Even BW/EA acts borderline illegally towards f2p players refusing them customer support and taking their money from cartel purchaces that don't even work. Why would the players treat them any better than BW/EA?

[Lilly32]

GW2 is F2play. SWToR IS NOT. Free to play means you can play the game as you normally would without having to pay as in GW2. Tons of people have leveled to 80, even multiple characters without ever buying anything from the cash shop. Its just not required. Yet SWToR is FAR from F2play because you cant experience the game as you normally would unless you pay the monthly sub fee.

2 Character limit
NO customer support at all.
Credit limit that once you spend you cant withdraw more
Limit on WZs you play
Limit on FPs you do
Limited use of the GTN
Nerfed EXP.
Limited Crewskills
Limited amount of companions you can send out on crewskill missions
Cant queue up items to craft
Cant wear good armor once you hit 50

Im sure theres a ton of things Im forgetting. You have to sub to actually correctly play the game so basically its not free to play at all.

[RoninaThorstone]

GW2 is F2play.

Just going to stop you right there.

You are wrong.

Gw2 is BUY to play. You pay 60 dollars for the game. It is not F2P.

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 04:40 PM ----------

2 Character limit
Limit on WZs you play
Limit on FPs you do
Limited use of the GTN
Nerfed EXP.
Limited Crewskills
Cant wear good armor once you hit 50

Im sure theres a ton of things Im forgetting. You have to sub to actually correctly play the game so basically its not free to play at all.

Well, everything here can be lifted without a subscription.
Also, there is no limit on the number of FPs you can do.

[notorious98]

Doesn't suprise me. Even BW/EA acts borderline illegally towards f2p players refusing them customer support and taking their money from cartel purchaces that don't even work. Why would the players treat them any better than BW/EA?

The cartel unlocks is a problem. Lack of customer support for F2P accounts is pretty much standard for the genre.

[Lilly32]

Just going to stop you right there.

You are wrong.

Gw2 is BUY to play. You pay 60 dollars for the game. It is not F2P.

Well then the same thing is true about SWToR. I dont remember getting mine for free last December.

[Deleted]

The cartel unlocks is a problem. Lack of customer support for F2P accounts is pretty much standard for the genre.

Could be so, don't really know about other mmo's. But i'm still having trouble thinking something like that is legal. Once you buy something from the shop doesn't that make you a customer of said provider?

[RoninaThorstone]

Well then the same thing is true about SWToR. I dont remember getting mine for free last December.

It went f2p nov 15 2012.

There is no more box price.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately it's mostly real and not trolling. The majority of SWTOR players, like we've said, are basically out to have an elite tea party. One where no one is invited so there winds up being no tea or biscuits to consume.

I wouldn't say it was the majority at all. I play in the late evenings and it's a handful of players in general chat or a few tools in FP runs. It exists but a 'majority' is a stretch too far imo. I'd say the majority want the game to succeed and are happy for the faster queues due to the F2P influx.

Besides I thought you wrote yesterday that you hadn't logged in in weeks? I know things were more heated 6 weeks ago when F2P launched but recently the animosity has died down a lot imo. Don't get me wrong, people still act up.

[notorious98]

Could be so, don't really know about other mmo's. But i'm still having trouble thinking something like that is legal. Once you buy something from the shop doesn't that make you a customer of said provider?

If it wasn't legal, they wouldn't do it. Buying a pizza and getting the wrong pizza doesn't entitle you to a refund or your product to be fixed. However, a company that refuses to fix the problem risks losing customers.