Patriotism and the Nation-State

[Deleted]

American public transit doesn't have to be terrible. It just is because we don't fund it. Americans prefer driving themselves around, even when it results in traffic that makes you want to kill yourself and everyone around you.

One of the major problems I also heard it is very easy to mug someone on a bus or a train in America, as weird as it sounds, cameras on buses is totally fine, they're public places that do need security.

[Priestiality]

Wut. I call myself a Democrat because that is the party to which I align.

Nothing wrong with government. In fact, pretty much every problem with the current government is the result of the system's design. So blame the Founders.

Um, no? Foreign Aid, playing World Police, depriving citizens of their constitutional rights? None of those things were implemented by the founders. Those are all modern issues, resulting in a very "Un-American" United States. (Note: America is a super-continent, the United States is the nation which you people are referring to. Please remember basic geography.)

[Deleted]

Good. We could use another Western power bloc.

We can have that without being a huge Conglomerate of Country-states.


Being a decent trading union for one, We need Germany and France to step aside and be less controling first.

[Underverse]

opposing patriotism =/= opposing america

Your poll is a bit loaded

[pucGG]

None of the answers in the pole work for me. I'm Faroese, united with Greenland and Denmark in the kingdom of Denmark. Denmark is part of EU.
I'm a proud Faroese, I support the unity of the kingdom and I support EU. I see myself as patriotic still.

[Deleted]

Good. We could use another Western power bloc.

What about countries that want to remain independent yet remain a part of the EU?

[Laize]

One of the major problems I also heard it is very easy to mug someone on a bus or a train in America, as weird as it sounds, cameras on buses is totally fine, they're public places that do need security.

I live in a relatively small NJ town that's fairly well-to-do. I avoid New York City like the plague were still a thing in there. I wouldn't know much about public transit even if what you said were true.

Nevertheless, if a place like a public bus needs security, that's one thing. The cameras on your streets are more than a little creepy, though. I mean... you already live in the geographical location of Airstrip One... do you really have to turn your country into it for realsies?

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 09:04 PM ----------

What about countries that want to remain independent yet remain a part of the EU?

I'd assume "tough shit" would be the response of the EU government.

[Elegiac]

Um, no? Foreign Aid, playing World Police, depriving citizens of their constitutional rights? None of those things were implemented by the founders. Those are all modern issues, resulting in a very "Un-American" United States. (Note: America is a super-continent, the United States is the nation which you people are referring to. Please remember basic geography.)

First off, America and the United States are used interchangeably in layman's terms.

Secondly, all of those problems can be traced to the Founding. The former two are the progeny of the philosophical tradition that was begun with the creation of the American Republic, the latter is simply the government attempting to deal with the limitations placed on it at the founding (which is NOT a comment on whether or not I support said abrogations).

---------- Post added 2013-01-05 at 01:05 PM ----------

We can have that without being a huge Conglomerate of Country-states.

Being a decent trading union for one, We need Germany and France to step aside and be less controling first.

No one power within the current EU has the military or economic might to compete with the emerging power blocs in South and East Asia. Consolidation is a necessity.

[Deleted]

I'd assume "tough shit" would be the response of the EU government.

Even formulated differently would make that the dumbest statement ever. Having to choose between independence and economic suicide sounds way too Soviet.

[Laize]

Good. We could use another Western power bloc.

I disagree. American hegemony is pretty much essential for the peaceful functioning of the world. No matter how aligned our interests might be with such a nation, there would eventually be a power struggle.

[Elegiac]

What about countries that want to remain independent yet remain a part of the EU?

Either client states, or tough shit.

[larrakeyah]

If you also want to debate economics, you'll have to look that Full employment STILL has never been achieved as it's only a theoretical.

It has been achieved, when the people who want a job can get one, that's full employment for the layman. It's not 100% unemployment because a lot of people rationally don't want to get a job. Both Singapore and Australia (Australia a few months ago) achieved that, and probably more countries, maybe Hong Kong and South Korea?

In the coal mine where i worked 2 years ago the company had to go abroad to recruit people. The fucking Australian Army is paying a ton of money to U.S veterans to emigrate to Australia because they dont' have enough people, submarines docked for lack of people. That's full employment which is not the same as 100% employment.

[Elegiac]

I disagree. American hegemony is pretty much essential for the peaceful functioning of the world. No matter how aligned our interests might be with such a nation, there would eventually be a power struggle.

No, the most stable systems are multipolar ones in which a balance of power operates. That, and the US simply doesn't have the means necessary to sustain itself as the sole hyperpower anymore.

[Deleted]

Either client states, or tough shit.

Wow, you guys really seem to think of the EU as a new Soviet Union.

[Deleted]

I live in a relatively small NJ town that's fairly well-to-do. I avoid New York City like the plague were still a thing in there. I wouldn't know much about public transit even if what you said were true.

Nevertheless, if a place like a public bus needs security, that's one thing. The cameras on your streets are more than a little creepy, though. I mean... you already live in the geographical location of Airstrip One... do you really have to turn your country into it for realsies?
[/COLOR]

I'd assume "tough shit" would be the response of the EU government.

Honestly? I would agree with you about the cameras if I didn't know they were much better positioned than people let on, most cameras are in two places

A) High Streets

B) High Traffic areas

One stops muggers and violence.

The other stops pricks with terrible driving.

They're not the worst thing to happen really, Cameras are only put in residential areas when voted for by the residents.

[saffi]

I'd assume "tough shit" would be the response of the EU government.

Eh, all countries in the EU are there voluntarily. Nobody forced them to join..

[Elegiac]

Wow, you guys really seem to think of the EU as a new Soviet Union.

As said, the states that joined did so voluntarily. You cannot have a stable political union if people are permitted to go back and forward willy-nilly; hence why secession is illegal in the United States.

[Deleted]

Either client states, or tough shit.

Pretty sure the only people who'd want this are France and Germany.

UK don't even really enjoy the EU as is, we have better trading licenses through the commonwealth.

[Laize]

Even formulated differently would make that the dumbest statement ever. Having to choose between independence and economic suicide sounds way too Soviet.

Actually the choice would be between submission to the federal government or economic suicide.

Regardless, if your'e referring to nations that are a part of the EU without using the Euro... my response is "I'm not sure what would happen."

Such a government seems to simply be the most recent incarnation of close ties between nations. However these ties tend to be governmental in nature (In this case, in intent as well) and expansion of power is what government does best. I see no future for the EU that doesn't involve a federal union or collapse (Of the EU government, not individual European governments). And consideration the shared currency and dependence on the free trade the Eurozone creates... I don't see collapse being allowed to happen.

I'm no futurist... but if I had to predict a future for the EU it would be America 2.0 with Germany as your New England (Ruling bloc and economic center) and France as your California (Secondary economic powerhouse that finds itself at odds with the former).

[Elegiac]

Pretty sure the only people who'd want this are France and Germany.

UK don't even really enjoy the EU as is, we have better trading licenses through the commonwealth.

The UK stands to gain a lot from investing more energy in the EU. Outside it, it will be reduced to a junior partner of the United States.

As sad as it is, the British Empire is no longer the power it once was. She needs allies with which to work in the modern world, and the EU offers the Alliance with the most input.