Thread: <3 Ghostcrawler

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  1. #121
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Any business class I know of or operating business venture, that is a basic structure for dealing with customers. Customers are going to be Rude, so is the public, but when you are representing a company, you need to deal from the higher ground.
    If I went into a restaurant, ordered their lasagna, ate it, and then proceeded to barge into the kitchen and bitch to the entire staff about how the food was cold, the service was slow, the water was grimy, and that the owner must not give a fuck about his customers at a volume loud enough for the whole restaurant to hear, I guarantee you I would be thrown out and told never to return.

    If instead I told my waiter that the lasagna came out a bit cold, and that I wanted him to know so that future customers could be served a hot meal, then I'm sure my waiter would inform me that my feedback was appreciated.

    There is a right and a wrong way to leave feedback. A business should not be forced to coddle their belligerent customers solely because they spent money on their product. Customers like the one in my first example are not even worth the profit they bring to a business.
    Last edited by kleinlax21; 2013-01-06 at 03:06 PM.
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  2. #122
    GC is hilarious. I love the man, he will spank people if he needs to. He has no issue being blunt and telling people off, he's forward and sticks to his guns. He's good if you ask me. People who don't like him are just mad their class is weak compared to another by a few % points. People need to stop thinking there's class favoritism. It's in blizzards BEST interest to have all classes as balanced as possible.

  3. #123
    I think he does as good a job as any marine biologist could as an exec on an MMO.

  4. #124
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    As oppossed to antagonistic snide comments, directed at anybody not who expect GC to have to class and take the high road. What is his job, he is lead developer of World of Warcraft. His Dutys consist of making a game that potential subscribers want to buy, he interacts with the community to have a line of communication open to get direct feedback from possible current and new customers. And while he has his Blizzard hat on, he is a represenative of Activision/Blizzard and should conduct himself accordingly, and if and when he does have interactions with the public as part of what he does, if someone is being rude or disrespectful, he has the option of ignoring them, and answering a question from someone that he finds more acceptable.
    I fail to see where he is being rude. I'm sorry I just don't see that.
    He's sometimes "shooting straight from the hip"...
    He is communicating with clients or customers on a communication lingo level, which is widely accepted as such.
    I am willing to bet my testicles that if he would resort to a rather higher educated, official and neutral (which would reflect both, his education and position within the company) language, that this would draw out another group of people criticizing him for exactly that, and how arrogant he would be.
    Truth of the matter is......
    He talks "the people language" of the gaming community.
    He gives everyone a chance to communicate with the company on a rather upper level of decision making.

    And yet I still have to see his job description....

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    If I went into a restaurant, ordered their lasagna, ate it, and then proceeded to barge into the kitchen and bitch to the entire staff about how the food was cold, the service was slow, the water was grimy, and that the owner must not give a fuck about his customers at a volume loud enough for the whole restaurant to hear, I guarantee you I would be thrown out and told never to return.

    If instead I told my waiter that the lasagna came out a bit cold, and that I wanted him to know so that future customers could be served a hot meal, then I'm sure my waited would inform me that my feedback was appreciated.

    There is a right and a wrong way to leave feedback. A business should not be forced to coddle their belligerent customers solely because they spent money on their product. Customers like the one in my first example are not even worth the profit they bring to a business.

    I agree with you on your first part, You would be thrown out and rightly so, but that doesn't give them the right to act or behave anyway they want towards said customer, and i promise you the last thing that same restaurant will do is make a scene or add to his unacceptable behavior.


    Coddling and conducting yourself in a polite or atleast professional manner are completly different.
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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWC3587 View Post
    I think he does as good a job as any marine biologist could as an exec on an MMO.
    I'd argue that he does more people managing than he does actual game designing.
    Last I checked, most colleges don't offer a major in people managing.
    Also, iirc he has a masters in something slightly more relevant.
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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shampro View Post
    They will never leave, they have spend way to much invested in this game, and basicly hate everything about it, but thier addiction is too strong. Then they proceed to say'' I shouldnt have to leave, he should''. Quite hilarious i know, but is something that us sane ppl need to get use to. These kind of people will be here forever, the playerbase is just too big. And they will take their bullshit to any new MMO trying to get in the market.

    Also I find it hilarious that most ppl consider ''BUFF MY CLASS I NEEDS DIS AND X CLASS IS OP NERF!!!111'' as feedback. Reading people's tweets make me facepalm so hard, i dont think 90% of the WoW community knows how feedback works.
    I guess your right

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Because he ruined them, same as he is doing with WoW. he came around late 2008 and the first thing he did was TotC. He and the blind fanboys need to quit before they ruin the game.
    Ghoscrawler Joined Blizzard in Feburary 2008 way before TotGC or Wrath in general, shows how much you know . During Wrath beta he was talking on the old forums & interacting with everyone as he has today. Just back than we didn't have the whiiners & arrogant people we have today.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Ghostcrawler has brought more balance to the game than we've ever had. If you played in Vanilla, you'd know that. Vanilla had literally zero balance.

    Also, he may have given us TotC but, we also got ICC, Tier 11 and have you seen the new raid?
    Ghostcrawler is far more help to the game than the little children that think he should be fired.

    @Cybran - That tweet was completely uncalled for. All you seem to want to do is stir shit up. How about growing up a little instead. And quit the game while you're at it. Ghostcrawler isn't going anywhere.
    Ya I loved being 2 shot by Rogues no matter how geared I was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Let's make a poll about it?
    A) Cybran leaves WoW.
    B) Ghostcrawler leaves WoW.

    I don't think you'll like the result.



    Because that's when the game started getting bad according to him duuuuh, you know how those people use logics..
    Can we actually make that a poll or it against forums rules ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    That is right I choose to pay 15$, and to any business the bottom line is what the customer spends, you are right i am entitled to be treated respectfully and to hold certain expectations. You seem to think because Blizzard is a Billion Dollar Company they make games and do us all a favor, and that grants them special privilage. I assure you it doesn't I do have a vested interest in what i have but in, and I think it is reasonable for anybody who has put in 15$ a month to do that very thing, and when the Lead Developer decides to get smart mouthed and decides to spout off on twitter in a very disrespectful way, I think it is more than prudent for paying customers to say " Wait a minute, whether GC liked or disliked someones question" he always has the choice aswell to answer in a tactful way or simply ignore it and move on.


    Entitled brats feel they are owed something for nothing, a prudent consumer is someone who pays for something and demands to have the merchant be accountable for their product/
    Oh you would of hated it in Vanilla / TBC.
    Last edited by Arbs; 2013-01-06 at 03:25 PM.
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    I fail to see where he is being rude. I'm sorry I just don't see that.
    He's sometimes "shooting straight from the hip"...
    He is communicating with clients or customers on a communication lingo level, which is widely accepted as such.
    I am willing to bet my testicles that if he would resort to a rather higher educated, official and neutral (which would reflect both, his education and position within the company) language, that this would draw out another group of people criticizing him for exactly that, and how arrogant he would be.
    Truth of the matter is......
    He talks "the people language" of the gaming community.
    He gives everyone a chance to communicate with the company on a rather upper level of decision making.

    And yet I still have to see his job description....

    I just told you what his job description was in a nut shell, and talking in " THe people's language" speaking the LINGO?


    Is he a celebrity or a game designer, is he trying to be cool, or is he trying to maintain the development of WoW and communicate with customers and potential customers. He isn't there to pants people for the amusement and laughs of a few people any more than he is their to be anybodys whipping boy, that said, he is required to as a represenative of his company to act in a way that meets their business.
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  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by naturestorm View Post
    Except GC has poor PR skills. That's why he should talk less and do more. Aren't that what "Community Managers" job? While I understand that news comming from him feel more direct as he is the "Lead System Designer" I don't think I would have time or effort to answer as much on Twitter as he does...

    Kinda feel obliged to quote the <you had one job> and CG should stick to what his job is and let the "Community Managers" sweat-talks us with lies of future kick-ass PvE content and such.
    No, Greg have not poor PR skills. He does lots of blog entries that are very useful and well-received.

    The problem is that those blogs are walls of text. The complexity of the issues he aim can not be dealt in 140 characters. The need to cut the subject abruptly, so it can fit twitter limit already gave him the smirk fame. Twitter is a poor tool for a dev.

    Better to leave that to Kosak's spoilers on what's happening next. And Greg should stick to his blog entries.

  10. #130
    I respect the man for being able to put up with twitter people and not breaking down. He only gets a bit snarky at them.

  11. #131
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    I agree with you on your first part, You would be thrown out and rightly so, but that doesn't give them the right to act or behave anyway they want towards said customer, and i promise you the last thing that same restaurant will do is make a scene or add to his unacceptable behavior.


    Coddling and conducting yourself in a polite or atleast professional manner are completly different.
    I don't think GC ever makes a scene though.

    In his response to the guy who said he doesn't give a shit about the playerbase, all he said was "I am on twitter on a Saturday night talking to you guys" (paraphrasing here). It would be different if he responded with something like "Hey fuck off you pestering little cunt" and proceeded to go into a long, expletive-filled tirade about how his credentials are legit, etc.

    And even on some of his other more loose responses, I just don't see a problem with giving some attitude back when it is hurled in his face. To me, it doesn't compromise his professionalism or authority as a businessman/head designer when he insinuated people are retards when they act like retards. Or telling them their feedback is shit when it is actually shit feedback. I never really think of his responses as over the top disrespectful.

    I guess we just do not see eye to eye on this matter.
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  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    All you seem to want to do is stir shit up. How about growing up a little instead. And quit the game while you're at it. Ghostcrawler isn't going anywhere.
    I was here before him and i will be here long after he is fired.

  13. #133
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    I just told you what his job description was in a nut shell, and talking in " THe people's language" speaking the LINGO?


    Is he a celebrity or a game designer, is he trying to be cool, or is he trying to maintain the development of WoW and communicate with customers and potential customers. He isn't there to pants people for the amusement and laughs of a few people any more than he is their to be anybodys whipping boy, that said, he is required to as a represenative of his company to act in a way that meets their business.
    You did not tell me his job description, You told me YOUR opinion.
    You don't have his job description. I want official proof. I mean that literally.
    As long as you cannot deliver said proof, all you can do is to express your opinion. With which I happen to only agree in parts. Because I also cannot agree with your stance on the restaurant example. In that case the restaurant owner, and/or management is absolutely free to handle the case at their own freedom.
    And such customer, as described, most restaurants would not hesitate to remove them forcefully, if they aren't leaving immediately.
    In plain English. They'd get kicked out, literally speaking. Remember it's their house....

    And back to GC, it's again your opinion, and nothing else. I fail to see him mistreating Blizzards customers.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    But we are their bosses not the other way around, and if the customers whether you agree with them or you don't keep treating them like crap and of course people may stick around for WOW for the reasons i have given, but posion the water enough i is going to effect your bottom line as it is with blizzard.
    You're on of the funniest guys in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Because he ruined them, same as he is doing with WoW. he came around late 2008 and the first thing he did was TotC. He and the blind fanboys need to quit before they ruin the game.
    Again, you need to quit, the game is fine, so are the devs. You however, should quit to show how much you disagree with them.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    I was here before him and i will be here long after he is fired.
    It's safe to say that WoW is beyond it's zenith. There may be a couple more expansions, maybe. Also a little bit depending on how the industry moves in regards of technology and entertainment..
    I'm pretty sure that he will not get fired. He'd rather relocate internally to other projects that are catered to the newer tech abilities.
    The times for keyboard and mouse entry games headed towards their end. Sure, it's still ways to go to get there... But with new tech, customer behavior changes towards that. At some point in the near future people will turn to that new tech, and it results in declining subs. Not because WoW is bad, but because it's old.
    And WoW is too big of a monster, to keep it profitable with only 1 or 2 mio. on subs remaining.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    I was here before him and i will be here long after he is fired.
    Keep dreaming.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Aah yes, and what billion dollar company are you CEO of?

    I don't have to be, this isn't rocket science, it's a business like anything else, and if you know anything about that, you know that people and customers base make up that business or you don't have a business.


    So that's what you call overly emotional?
    How do you call it when you want the entire development team fired because they don't do exactly as you want?
    I call it a prudent response since the development team seems to be all in one of the same kind of attitude


    No, a lack of growth is only bad when you bring out an entire new product.
    Expansions are made to keep as much players as possible paying your monthly fee.
    That is basic gaming-industry.
    Business is always about growth. that is pretty much 101.


    If someone calls me at my work and tells us that our entire team should be fired because we are "ruining the company" then I'll laugh at them, call them an idiot and hang up.
    And my boss would fully support that.
    I hope you are kidding, because this sounds pretty unbelievable. No business or company i know of would ever tolerate that sort of nonsense. A professional would maybe seek to find out what their problem was, and if there was anything they could do to help, if they couldn't or were being abused, they would end the call.


    I suggest you actually run this scenario by your boss before you try it and if they would give you their blessing, then you are made for each other.


    And if the people deserve that because they are being rude and insulting?
    It's clear that most people support comments like that.


    No, nobody deserves to be abused, and to defend that kind of behavior in defense of more bad behavior is a clear sign of immaturity. Everybody has good days and bad days, GC isn't expected to be perfect, but he is expected to be professional.
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  18. #138
    I just have to say, it would be incredibly funny to see what WoW would become if the haters who say GC should be fired got hired to do his job. I know I would have some big laughs.

    It's amazing how blind those people are to how the game has improved under him. I guess people will always antagonize and find scapegoats for their frustrations in the game. At least it's wonderful that GC has a really thick skin and seems to know how to handle those people, for the most part.
    Yak. Yak never changes.

  19. #139
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    Can't stand him.
    But he's not solely responsible for the current state of Blizzard.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskobar View Post
    They all have also quit the game, and don't care bout Blizzard anymore, that's why they go around with their wow signatures, and updates armories while posting on every wow thread they find, like they're stalking an EX that moved on, but they just can't accept that the EX is not crying to have them back.
    As far as Blizzard crying to have unsubscribed players back, I can't speak for everyone but I get at least every 3 weeks about coming back to WoW. I still have no plans to come back, and Blizzard already knows what they would need to do to get me to come back, and it's not happening, and that's perfectly fine with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    I'm sure he was the sole designer, coder, visionary, and tester of TotC though, amirite? In that case, it most definitely was GC's fault, as surely nobody else could have possibly been involved.

    Ulduar, on the other hand, surely was developed when GC was taking his vacation months, as there is no WAY he could possibly have had anything to do with it, as it's the best raid ever since MC.
    I wanted to go into this specifically because it is a common argument back towards the belief that GC started his work on ToC. It is true that he was around before Ulduar came out. He actually first joined Blizzard in February of 2008, with Sunwell opening in April 2008. Ulduar was ready for reveal and testing by February 2009. Which means it is possible that Ghostcrawler worked on Ulduar a bit, at the very least he could have helped balance it. From what we know of how far in advance Blizzard plans things out though, we can assume much of the art, music, and design in general was already in the works by the time he joined, and was definitely in the works by the time he got settled in. So could he have worked on it? Possibly. I would bet further that he was first assigned to the refreshing of Naxxramas and other smaller systems and not onto their next huge project as a first job within the company. I could be wrong though, and there is no real way to know one way or the other so it's worthless arguing about it. I will at least say that my ideas about his work on those projects is based off logical assumptions and not "Nuh uh!" and "Ya he did!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Buu View Post
    No, Greg have not poor PR skills. He does lots of blog entries that are very useful and well-received.

    The problem is that those blogs are walls of text. The complexity of the issues he aim can not be dealt in 140 characters. The need to cut the subject abruptly, so it can fit twitter limit already gave him the smirk fame. Twitter is a poor tool for a dev.

    Better to leave that to Kosak's spoilers on what's happening next. And Greg should stick to his blog entries.
    The problem is not that he writes, the problem is HOW he writes. If you want to see good PR skills go browse red posts on the League of Legends forums. They make the stuff written by Greg Street look like the random scribblings of a social reject vying for attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    because this is the GC love thread. Where's the hate one, though? I seem lost!
    The hate ones are locked and deleted because the moderators here can't stand having both sides of an argument based out of the 'negative' threads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    It was locked last night because of the arbitrary assumptions and petty disputes it fostered.
    Because this thread has absolutely no arbitrary assumptions or petty disputes being fostered in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Ooh lol, are you serious?
    Anyone can say that everyone he knows agrees with him, but there is no way to check that.
    Because I have no real want to get into it with you, as you usually refuse to listen to reason if it doesn't fit into your imaginary world anyways. I wanted to respond to these for anyone else who might be able to respond logically. Giving any sort of feedback is how they get their numbers, the problem being when they post what they are doing because the silent majority thinks so is that the silent majority isn't giving anyone feedback, not even them. This is where people like me have issues with this, there will never be any numbers from blizzard about anything dealing with the community aside from hard numbers they can tell from server data. As far as how people feel about things, the best place they can get feedback is from the forums, and when they ignore forum feedback they are really just feeling around in the dark and hoping the changes they make aren't going to make some of the silent majority quit.

    Basically what it boils down to, is both Blizzard and the playerbase are trying to have a conversation with a mime. Blizzard on the other hand is trying to sound dominant and in control and says things with certainty to keep many posters feeling secure regardless of how they might actually be stumbling about.

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