[Megathread] Path of Exile

[Fencers]

How come I shouldnt level my main gem? I admit to doing this. And playing an archer. :P

Because you can reuse the gems on another character. It isn't so much a problem w/ quest gems. Which I made the distinction for if you read carefully.

For example, ranking up Elemental Hit, Chain or Elemental Weakness w/o dupes or currency to buy one outright puts those gems out of reach of other characters. Not to mention the scaling of all gems in output and mana costs are not equal. This is true of quality on gems as well.

It's pretty common to see in trade people asking how to de-level a gem, or offering to trade a high level gem for the same gem at lower level or simply players expressing frustration that they have to level new gems all over again. The latter of which was daunting enough that several players from our guild quit soon after realizing this fact. Including another MMO-C mod [hehe].

These are newbie mistakes where the assumption is, "Oh hey I leveled. Time to increase the gem too!" Though in practice that is not always beneficial to the character or your overall cache.

Ranking up Spark or Burning Arrow will hardly matter. Though think for a bit before jacking up Lightning Arrow or Spell Totem. As access or mana efficiency is sometimes more valuable than an extra 1% on the gem 5 levels later.

[Vespian]

Because you can reuse the gems on another character. It isn't so much a problem w/ quest gems. Which I made the distinction for if you read carefully.

For example, ranking up Elemental Hit, Chain or Elemental Weakness w/o dupes or currency to buy one outright puts those gems out of reach of other characters. Not to mention the scaling of all gems in output and mana costs are not equal. This is true of quality on gems as well.

It's pretty common to see in trade people asking how to de-level a gem, or offering to trade a high level gem for the same gem at lower level or simply players expressing frustration that they have to level new gems all over again. The latter of which was daunting enough that several players from our guild quit soon after realizing this fact. Including another MMO-C mod [hehe].

These are newbie mistakes where the assumption is, "Oh hey I leveled. Time to increase the gem too!" Though in practice that is not always beneficial to the character or your overall cache.

Ranking up Spark or Burning Arrow will hardly matter. Though think for a bit before jacking up Lightning Arrow or Spell Totem. As access or mana efficiency is sometimes more valuable than an extra 1% on the gem 5 levels later.

My god, those people that quit are pathetic.... First of all, it's extremely obvious that a gem that receives xp and can be separated from the slot to freely distribute can't just be de-leveled. You can't de-level characters either. Second, it sounds to me like rage-quitting in a game of LoL.

Quite frankly, what you said only counts for support gems and most of the time not even all of them. Giving it as a strict rule type of advice is just counter productive and it's not a newbie reflex at all. If you want to be constructive, as you propose, than narrow it down. In detail!

If you don't play HC, it doesn't matter since your death is meaningless. You will always pop up again.

If you're HC, it doesn't matter, since you will lose the gem either way.

Having doubles, nothing wrong with it. Not leveling gems without having a functional reason for it (mana, most of the time), not an advice you should give to a newbie.

[Fencers]

My god, those people that quit are pathetic.... First of all, it's extremely obvious that a gem that receives xp and can be separated from the slot to freely distribute can't just be de-leveled. You can't de-level characters either.

It is possible to de-level gems. Recipe is scour + ranked gem.

It is a form of rage quitting. That is entirely the point of the advice- don't back yourself into a space where if and when you re-roll half your stash & gems are of no value. Minimizing leveling fatigue is important. Especially since your goal is to farm the last act of content in perpetuity.

Quite frankly, what you said only counts for support gems and most of the time not even all of them. Giving it as a strict rule type of advice is just counter productive and it's not a newbie reflex at all. If you want to be constructive, as you propose, than narrow it down. In detail!

Nah. I just ran a templar to merc act 1 using a page of un-leveled gems I keep for just such a purpose. Highest rank gem was level 3 sweep. Leveling gems is not wholly necessary for a long time in the content.

What I said about leveling gems in general is rock solid advice for a new player. Esp. in a new economy.

You just don't agree, which is fine. But of no value or weight to me.

If you don't play HC, it doesn't matter since your death is meaningless. You will always pop up again.

What does that have to do with mana cost and early skill access?

If you're HC, it doesn't matter, since you will lose the gem either way.

Original post was directed at someone playing softcore.

Having doubles, nothing wrong with it. Not leveling gems without having a functional reason for it (mana, most of the time), not an advice you should give to a newbie.

I gave the reasons pretty clearly; quicker access, re-usability, mana cost and scaling are factors to consider in gem pages.

[Vespian]

It is possible to de-level gems. Recipe is scour + ranked gem.

I gave the reasons pretty clearly; quicker access, re-usability, mana cost and scaling are factors to consider in gem pages.

I didn't know, thanks. But let's just say it's not ideal for anyone that wants to de-level a gem.

Last I checked, Sweep has a 2x damage factor. By memory, even though I could check the wiki, I went up from max 26 to max 52 damage between 5 to 6 or something like that. Obviously abilities are weapon based, but to me, keeping sweep at level 3 sounds even more noobish than your elite advice.

Original post was directed at someone playing softcore.

Yeah I gave that option as well. Softcore characters don't die, so you suffer no economical setback. If you want similar level 1 gems, just farm them. It's not like you'll lose your char in the process. If you don't want to farm them, sell something to buy them. Your point is moot. In HC it matters, but you need to have max level gems, most of the time, to make sure you don't just flatout reduce your own efficiency. In SC, who cares.

[Fencers]

I didn't know, thanks. But let's just say it's not ideal for anyone that wants to de-level a gem.

Scour, fuse and alch all are equal value. Purchasable from the act 2 vendor as well.

Last I checked, Sweep has a 2x damage factor. By memory, even though I could check the wiki, I went up from max 26 to max 52 damage between 5 to 6 or something like that. Obviously abilities are weapon based, but to me, keeping sweep at level 3 sounds even more noobish than your elite advice.

There was no need to level sweep while I was rushing to the final act. And I do use properly leveled gems at necessary difficulties.

However, a level 14 sweep +17 quality [character level 50-something!] was not too useful to a new templar at level 13.

I didn't suggest never leveling any gems. I suggested not rushing to level gems when you don't have anything else. It's quite easy to find yourself in a pinch, and sometimes an expensive one.

[Vespian]

Scour, fuse and alch all are equal value. Purchasable from the act 2 vendor as well.

There was no need to level sweep while I was rushing to the final act. And I do use properly leveled gems at necessary difficulties.

However, a level 14 sweep +17 quality [character level 50-something!] was not too useful to a new templar at level 13.

I didn't suggest never leveling any gems. I suggested not rushing to level gems when you don't have anything else. It's quite easy to find yourself in a pinch, and sometimes an expensive one.

No it's not, useful, get a new one. Or am I missing your point?

FYI, I would say it's not relevant for this discussion that gems can actually be de-leveled, in fact it would sustain my argument more than yours, unless you actively swap those gems between chars. The point here is, your friends rage-quit over it, you used it as an argument, while it's purely personal.

I am just responding to the definitive way of declaring it not-done, in your original post. In your second post, you're slowly crawling back from that, I just don't think it's enough.

[Fencers]

No it's not, useful, get a new one. Or am I missing your point?

Entirely.

I did use another sweep gem for a new character, one lower in level.

FYI, I would say it's not relevant for this discussion that gems can actually be de-leveled, in fact it would sustain my argument more than yours, unless you actively swap those gems between chars.

De-leveling gems was for your information. As you did not know it could be done.

The point here is, your friends rage-quit over it, you used it as an argument, while it's purely personal.

I used it as an example of how to not limit your options. My argument was based on leaving options open for yourself in gem accessibility, usability, efficiency, cost. All of which are inverse to leveling all gems exclusively.

I am just responding to the definitive way of declaring it not-done, in your original post. In your second post, you're slowly crawling back from that, I just don't think it's enough.

I gave general advice to a player asking for tips. Then further clarified as asked by others.

There is no conflict in:

The reason being that some classes [namely Witch, Shadow and Ranger] benefit a lot from the hand me downs and combination skill gems. A Templar or Duelist have access to red & blue and red & green gems early to mid game. Until you build a cache of items, flasks and gems early/easy access via either Templar or Duelist pays off big time.

Lastly, never level a main skill gem unless it is a quest reward gem or you have at least one copy of the gem at level 1 elsewhere. It's highly inefficient and a common mistake of "newbies". The option to level gems doesn't mean you have to level gems. If you follow my meaning.

Because you can reuse the gems on another character. It isn't so much a problem w/ quest gems. Which I made the distinction for if you read carefully.

For example, ranking up Elemental Hit, Chain or Elemental Weakness w/o dupes or currency to buy one outright puts those gems out of reach of other characters. Not to mention the scaling of all gems in output and mana costs are not equal. This is true of quality on gems as well.

Pretty clear I am talking about building a robust cache for yourself. Where exclusive skill gem leveling is in fact contra.

[Niku]

So, go nuts with quest reward gems but try to not level rare gems that can be used for alts.　Although　I like only using one char in these kinds of games.

[Lagwin]

So, go nuts with quest reward gems but try to not level rare gems that can be used for alts.　Although　I like only using one char in these kinds of games.

Pretty much or wait till you get a second one, the likes of frenzy or detonate dead though quest rewards don't need to be leveled depending on what you use them for...detonate dead raises it's mana cost quite a bit even at low levels and i only use it on ranged chars that need to clear corpses before a necro rezzes the room...not 2 hours ago i had a very tedious run through one of the dungeons and could only use it 4 or 5 times before having to use a flask, very slow going.
Frenzy if i remember right doesn't need leveled because its the effect you want not the out right damage from it so link it with chain or fork and you have easy charges

[Fencers]

So, go nuts with quest reward gems but try to not level rare gems that can be used for alts.　

Yea. Once high level farming sets in [which you get to much quicker by having low level access to gems & items] then skill gems pour in by the truck load. Esp. quality gems.

It's also quite easy to level gems due to the XP rate once at endgame. Which you are farming anyways for drops and precious maps. So the gems you do want to level can be ranked in a few hours and with finer control [gear flips, gcps, links, etc].

Frenzy if i remember right doesn't need leveled because its the effect you want not the out right damage from it so link it with chain or fork and you have easy charges

Yes, frenzy is one of those tricky gems best not rushed to level.

For example, some "Spork" or EK builds only use the frenzy for charges.

[Lagwin]

Yea. Once high level farming sets in [which you get to much quicker by having low level access to gems & items] then skill gems pour in by the truck load. Esp. quality gems.

It's also quite easy to level gems due to the XP rate once at endgame. Which you are farming anyways for drops and precious maps. So the gems you do want to level can be ranked in a few hours and with finer control [gear flips, gcps, links, etc].

Yes, frenzy is one of those tricky gems best not rushed to level.

For example, some "Spork" or EK builds only use the frenzy for charges.

I just noticed that lightning strike when leveled a bit gives and increasing chance for the projectile to pierce...and i was going to use it for my attempt at a spork templar...just using it for shock stacking with fork...but fork doesn't work if it pierces
So that's another one you should be careful on leveling

[Fencers]

Funny enough. I just scrapped a level ~56 Templar build that was based around Lightning Strike and Tempest Shield. Pretty strong early to mid game. But melee are just at a huge disadvantage in endgame. I didn't feel like sinking a lot of currency into getting over the 57-60 hump knowing maps were going to be slooooooow going.

Tempest Shield and Lightning Strike were great skills though. I think there is a lot of potential if GGG adjust the survivability/damage balance of melee at endgame.

Lightning Strike and Point Blank are great in combination. Didn't manage to get a good quality PB though.

[Perath]

God this game is far too addicting, especially when you like creating new builds like me...

I've always been an alt-a-holic, but this is just ridiculous. I've spent the last month or so trying to decide on a "main" build for open beta and all I've managed to do is multiply the amount of builds I want to do...

I can't wait for the 23rd, especially since I'll have about a week off, starting the day before.

[Lagwin]

Only really have the marauder above 60 and everything other than Vall and Brutus in merciless was no challenge...first map though was a wake up call :P
Think the main problem is not having the armor to cover the increase in damage my marauder was sitting of 36% armor and 2k health and going down 1% per level because i had no upgrades, then i picked up a 1 hand mace with massive damage allowing me to use a shield which helped a lot...even better my heavy strike only went from 3.1k to 2.5k dps so it wasn't a massive drop considering it's a 1 hander.

Though other melee builds will struggle if they can't stack resistance to a degree...marauder has it easy that way but there virtually bugger all near the other melee

[Perath]

Only really have the marauder above 60 and everything other than Vall and Brutus in merciless was no challenge...first map though was a wake up call :P
Think the main problem is not having the armor to cover the increase in damage my marauder was sitting of 36% armor and 2k health and going down 1% per level because i had no upgrades, then i picked up a 1 hand mace with massive damage allowing me to use a shield which helped a lot...even better my heavy strike only went from 3.1k to 2.5k dps so it wasn't a massive drop considering it's a 1 hander.

Though other melee builds will struggle if they can't stack resistance to a degree...marauder has it easy that way but there virtually bugger all near the other melee

The main issue I have with most melee builds, is the absolute lack of interesting aoe abilities. I've been trying to think of ideas for what they could do, but it's absolutely not easy designing melee aoe abilities that would rival things like chained projectiles.

I do plan on making a few melee builds though, purely for the heck of it. :P

[zalmatra]

I have been looking at a crazy witch build and have a few questions if its possible

can you dual wield wands...

[Fencers]

Think the main problem is not having the armor to cover the increase in damage my marauder was sitting of 36% armor and 2k health and going down 1% per level because i had no upgrades, then i picked up a 1 hand mace with massive damage allowing me to use a shield which helped a lot...even better my heavy strike only went from 3.1k to 2.5k dps so it wasn't a massive drop considering it's a 1 hander.

My SC marauder has almost 58% physical damage reduction and 70% resist all in Merc with a two-handed weapon.

With a shield, my defenses are even higher. Like 60-something and total elemental cap.

I still get trashed in maps if I am not REALLY careful.

As any ranged? Whatever. pressface2keyboard.

I touched on this in a previous post, but currently Path of Exile is a hard "linear warrior, quadratic mage" designed game. Ranged over melee & elemental over physical is fairly absolute.

On HC I have to alt f4 like crazy as a "tanky" melee. Hugest scare quotes ever around "tank" because it's not happening in any serious map play.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 06:13 AM ----------

can you dual wield wands...

Yes.

I ran a dual wield wand Witch and Shadow.

Was okay.

[zalmatra]

from what it sounds like doing crazy wand spec isnt that good?

[Fencers]

Using a wand + shield is godly. Wand + focus is decent for spellcasters. Dual wand for ranged non-spells? Terrible.

The problem is that there is no way to strike simultaneously with both wands as one would with dual wield melee weapons. So the second wand is only useful as stat stick or spell caster power.

However, Wand +Shield is very strong for the entirety of the game. Highly useable as every class.

One of the Build of the Week characters was a Marauder wandy.



Wand Templars are all the rage right now that Kripparrian made it 3rd place in the 1-week race. He played a beastly Wand Templar.

http://tinyurl.com/bcnhosx

[Repefe]

Wand Templars are all the rage right now that Kripparrian made it 3rd place in the 1-week race. He played a beastly Wand Templar.

Heavy armored ranged tank spellcaster ... that's too try hard for me Makes sense for hardcore though.