Welfare and Octomom

[Purlina]

Stop making shit up. Any person with a brain takes that into consideration when PLANNING to have a child. If your future job outlook is sketchy at best, do not have a child.

Yep, I am sure the average joe can easily foresee recessions...

Everyone saw this last one coming a mile away!

[petej0]

Then what was your point? No additional savings are had...

If they choose to adopt one of the octo-mom babies over any foriegn born baby then it is a savings to the tax payer. That is my whole point.

[Purlina]

If they choose to adopt one of the octo-mom babies over any foriegn born baby then it is a savings to the tax payer. That is my whole point.

It doesn't matter because there are plenty of other US babies to adopt.

Instead of adopting US baby A, you adopt US baby B.

In the end it doesn't make a difference...

[OrcD3vil]

I fixed that, but the point still stands. We would not save any money if her children where put up for adoption.

Adoption means they take custoday of the child and they pay for everything meaning no longer the state's responsibilty to pay for. So what the hell are you talking about this is not saving us money? As long as you do your checking and making sure the couple/person taking the child can afford it then you will not be paying anymore money from the state!

[Sarthan]

Actually it ''IS'' the doctors business lol. The fact that he put MORE EMBRYOS and lied about it, is clearly the doctors business. The fact he didn't care about her mental state ''IS'' the doctors business.

Themius if the Doctor would have said no because she is not mentally stable you would be here complaining about how the mean doctor took away her rights.

[sandmoth12]

First the cold logic approach: take the children from her since she seems to be mentally unstable. Place the children into foster care. Forcefully restrain her into custody and cut her tubes so that she can never have children again.

Now the approach with a little more emotion: urge her to get her tubes cut, and start a donations program so that she can feed her children.


Personally I see this woman had many chances so I would go with the first option.

[OrcD3vil]

Yep, I am sure the average joe can easily foresee recessions...

Everyone saw this last one coming a mile away!

Clueless are we? They are stating that if you are sitting well and can afford a kid and want a kid at the time go for it! SHE COULD NOT AFFORD TO PAY FOR HER 6 KIDS ALREADY SO SHE HAD MORE!!!!!!!! She didn't lose her job until she got pregnant with 8 babies and spend all her money on getting pregnant which means she had no money for her 6 kids while she was pregnant. She caused herself to lose her job, which is her own doing, then she spent all her money on getting pregnant which was her own doing.. EVERYONE was her own doing and now she is expect us to give her money via taxpaying dollars because SHE SCREWED UP SEVERAL TIMES and we have to pay or you call us horrible people? NO she is the horrible person for bringing 14 kids into this world not being able to take care of them NOT US. So take your bull and eat it.

[Purlina]

Adoption means they take custoday of the child and they pay for everything meaning no longer the state's responsibilty to pay for. So what the hell are you talking about this is not saving us money? As long as you do your checking and making sure the couple/person taking the child can afford it then you will not be paying anymore money from the state!

You missed the point, there is an OVERABUNDENCE of babies to adopt in the US. Putting one more baby up for adoption does not create a savings.

Why?

Because the number of babies being adopted is less then the number of babies up for adoption.

[TirielWoW]

I think what I find most amusing about this entire thread is that Themius keeps saying, "She was pro-life, she had to implant those embryos or they'd be destroyed!"

But that's not true at all. First, she apparently told the doctor she wanted fresh embryos, not the ones already in storage. He implanted 6 fresh embryos AND the 6 frozen ones, from what I can tell. Second, does no one understand that you can donate those embryos? Yeah, you can. You can donate them to other people who want to have children but are unable to conceive. There's no reason that the embryos have to be destroyed. She could have even paid to have them stored indefinitely.

So saying "she was pro-life so she HAD to get them implanted" is a cop-out at best, and downright ridiculous.

[Calamorn]

This conversation is ridiculous. When does personal responsibility kick in?

The woman had six children, as a single mother that is a very taxing thing. Pro-life or not, she's a mother, your responsibility is no longer to yourself and your values, it's to your children. It no longer matters what you want, it matters what is good for them. Regardless of the fact the doctor put in more than she wished, she wanted him to implant six, which gave her the very real possibility that all of them would take. Even if half did, that is still three, pushing her to nine. Additional children tax income and take away from what your current children have. There was no need for that, with each one added, their lives get worse individually. They could have been donated to women in need.

She was selfishly looking after her own interests instead of what was good for her current children, to me, that's the sign of a poor mother. I don't care she did porn, had nudes of herself made for money. You do what you need to do for your kids. She just made that distinction way too late, and now the rest of the people have to pay for it.

Fiscal responsibility is the part of a parent. It's part of what makes a -good- parent, providing for your children. Purposefully trying to have more when you know you can't afford it is living beyond your means.

Someone losing a job, having a crisis, going from healthy to sick... those are reasons you need help. Being irresponsible? That's on you.

[Roose]

Yep, I am sure the average joe can easily foresee recessions...

Everyone saw this last one coming a mile away!

And smart people that saved and are not supporting kids they can't afford are doing fine. Yes, you can always prepare for recessions. They happen. You know, saving for a rainy day. Something that people who do not have kids they can't afford do.

Kids are really fucking expensive. Having kids is a very serious decision. People should not have kids unless they can support themselves and their children through rough economic times like today.

Idiocracy.

[Twotonsteak]

Yep, I am sure the average joe can easily foresee recessions...

Everyone saw this last one coming a mile away!

Why don't we put all "what-if's" aside, shall we? Because, in this case, the post was about "Octomom." And the facts are as follows:

1. She had six children that she was struggling, at best, to care for financially. As I recall she was already on assistance at this point.
2. Knowing her current circumstances SHE decided that SHE wanted more children.
3. Now she needs more assistance.

I don't see any sort of mystery here. There was nothing that was unforseen. She couldn't afford to care for six and she decided to have more.

[petej0]

Why the heck not? Let's say you have 0 kids, and the doctor makes you have 8 instead of 1? Who is to blame, you or the doctor?

I fail to see your point. Everyone agrees the doctor is at fault for planting more embryos then was required for a normal IVF. Regardless Suleman ASKED for all remaining embroys to be planted. Well, 8 were planted, not the 6 she thought, it makes zero difference 12 kids or 14 kids, she still cant afford them.

Your point about going from zero to 8 is moot because the doctor in either case does not care how many children you already have.

[Purlina]

And smart people that saved and are not supporting kids they can't afford are doing fine. Yes, you can always prepare for recessions. They happen. You know, saving for a rainy day. Something that people who do not have kids they can't afford do.

Kids are really fucking expensive. Having kids is a very serious decision. People should not have kids unless they can support themselves and their children through rough economic times like today.

Idiocracy.

A rainy day is 6 like months, people have been out of work for much longer then that due to the recession.

I would the last recession a freaking tsunami.

[bergmann620]

The doctor should be sued, there should be a lawsuit, he could be sued I believe, and the doctor IS to blame for her having this many kids. He lied and implanted more than he should have.

You think taking a child away from their home and sticking them in foster care when they're older which will likely mean they won't get adopted and instead spend time between homes until they're 18, is better? It would be fucking traumatic.

You don't think living in a home with 13 other kids, a mom who's in the news for doing porn or nudes or whatever every third week, etc is fucking traumatic?

Coming from the abusive-as-fuck home I grew up in, I'll tell you straight up: The homes I stayed in felt like vacations compared to my house. I'll bet 9 or 10 of those kids feel the same. Every one of them, by 13, would likely trade damn near anything just for some anonymity.

[Melanieshaman]

My nephew and his GF did this..she had 2 kids from her ex, and they had another ..for more money from the government..they refuse to get married as they would have to add his income to hers...hers alone (which now that i think about it, i don't think she works)... is what keeps her on it.

[MaximusRex]

It's because she had 8 kids when she already had 6 and she was a single mother. Pretty much anyone should discern that unless you're independently wealthy, it's not going to happen financially.

It's basically a case of somebody's blatantly reckless actions costing taxpayers a sizable bill.

I agree that its a problem, but what's the solution? We force abortions/birth control/sterilization on people? We take their children away from them? We don't allow them to draw any assistance and let whatever happens happen? We buy a couple less fighter jets that we will probably never use and just accept it as the cost of living in a society?

[Rukentuts]

My nephew and his GF did this..she had 2 kids from her ex, and they had another ..for more money from the government..they refuse to get married as they would have to add his income to hers...hers alone (which now that i think about it, i don't think she works)... is what keeps her on it.

I also know someone who does this. It's not fraud in the legal sense (I don't believe), but it definitely comes off as fraudulent to me.

[bergmann620]

A rainy day is 6 like months, people have been out of work for much longer then that due to the recession.

I would the last recessioncall a freaking tsunami.

Nobody that is willing to work has been out of work longer than 6 months.

There are jobs out there, just not the jobs people want.

[Rukentuts]

I agree that its a problem, but what's the solution? We force abortions/birth control/sterilization on people? We take their children away from them? We don't allow them to draw any assistance and let whatever happens happen? We buy a couple less fighter jets that we will probably never use and just accept it as the cost of living in a society?

We give benefits based on average numbers of children. If they want to shoot out a few more that's their problem. If they cannot take care of them then the state will take them away.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 02:31 PM ----------

Nobody that is willing to work has been out of work longer than 6 months.

There are jobs out there, just not the jobs people want.

Pretty much this. I've seen posters on this board quit jobs because "they didn't like them". Well tough shit, you got to do what you can to get by.