Thread: No flying 5.2

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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    Oh god yes.


    Gonna gank Envy big time.
    Kill Celeb for me, please.

  2. #162
    The Patient Foxsakes's Avatar
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    Bring it on! I can't wait to gank some hordies

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Drithiend View Post
    I disagree. Mists was designed clearly as a first step to taking things on the ground once more.
    Oh yeah. The Jade Forest and the Order of the Cloud Serpent clearly reflect that.

  4. #164
    Elemental Lord
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    [QUOTE=Drithiend;19786601]All zones have been designed so that players can play in them while not being able to fly,[/quest]

    Yes, to get through the questing and levelling process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drithiend View Post
    Spending most of your time doing dailies, flying around while doing so, does not mean that most of the game is about flying, since dailies are repetitive tasks. Except dailies, and those few areas, most of the content is designed to be grounded.
    Yes, most of the content is designed around being grounded. But most of the content is consumed in a very small portion of the time the average player spends playing. So even though you are technically correct on that point (which I never disputed in the first place) to all intents and purposes it does not prove that Mists was designed to keep people grounded. It was designed to keep us grounded for a certain period of time, after which point they would expect us to move on for the rest of the duration of the expansion and enjoy the game in a different way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drithiend View Post
    I don't know whether this is the first step or not. I phrased it wrongly. But, judging from what has been said by the developers on the subject, and the reversal of their policy on flying, I think, and hope, it is the first step. The people at Blizzard like to change things slowly when it comes to major design decisions. And this looks to me like such a process being underway. And I think it would be nice if in the next expansion there were a couple of zones to fly in, with giant floating islands to travel to while avoiding flying patroling enemies, climate conditions that can harm your mount, and taking advantage of currents and altitude, etc. While the rest of the game was on the ground.
    A lack of flying during the questing/levelling process works well because you travel over a set course once over the period of a month. As you finish up a quest chain it is a short trip to your next destination and so you move through the world. Who cares if you spend 20 minutes to travelling across one end of the Jade Forest to the other in between 100 quests spread over 5 hours of game time? With endgame content though, you travel significantly more.

    If WoW could come out with a new expansion every 2 months (ie a continent full of quests like Pandaria) and did away with raiding and daily quests then I would probably agree with you.

    But they can't. The repetitive content exists to keep the player base busy during the massive gaps between "real content" necessitated by the constraints of reality. If you think the complaints about this type of content is bad now, try removing flying mounts and see what happens.

    Keeping people busy is their objective, but keeping us busy by spending 90% of our time just getting from place to place to do stuff that only takes 10% of our time would just be idiotic.

  5. #165
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    Note to self: Consider changing to PVE realm or ignoring new dailies
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  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Drithiend View Post
    All zones have been designed so that players can play in them while not being able to fly, except for very few areas like Kunzen Village in Valley of the Four Winds. Spending most of your time doing dailies, flying around while doing so, does not mean that most of the game is about flying, since dailies are repetitive tasks. Except dailies, and those few areas, most of the content is designed to be grounded.

    I don't know whether this is the first step or not. I phrased it wrongly. But, judging from what has been said by the developers on the subject, and the reversal of their policy on flying, I think, and hope, it is the first step. The people at Blizzard like to change things slowly when it comes to major design decisions. And this looks to me like such a process being underway. And I think it would be nice if in the next expansion there were a couple of zones to fly in, with giant floating islands to travel to while avoiding flying patroling enemies, climate conditions that can harm your mount, and taking advantage of currents and altitude, etc. While the rest of the game was on the ground.
    Incorrect. The questing experience from 85-90 is designed for ground mounts, the end game is designed for flying. If it was completely designed for ground mounts then there would be a southern, eastern and western (an open western gate) gate to get to the zones conveinantly without having to go way around through 2 other zones in order to get to them. The questing zones are built this way so you can experience the lore storyline sequentially instead of just flying to the dread wastes. Jade Forest -> 4 winds -> A. Karasang wilds, B. Misty steppes -> Boat tunnel -> Kun Lai -> Townlong -> Dread wastes, also known as level 85 zone -> 86 -> 87 ->88 ->89 ->flying! If they wanted you to ground mount everywhere then Skyrange would be accessable from the ground.

  7. #167
    excellent move.
    very excited after reading this.

  8. #168
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post

    How is it a PvE nerf?
    It's actually a PvE buff, as normally you always miss the ground (environment) while flying, but now it'll be guaranteed to hit!

  9. #169
    Hurray, now it will be easier to engage in PvP with players who don't want to PvP!

    Give me a break.

  10. #170
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The price you pay if you play on a PvP Server with no PvP Gear.
    I play on a PvE server, and I don't want to deal with this no-flying bullshit that serves absolutely no purpose on my server.

  11. #171
    You know, not everyone is on a PVP realm and just want to do their dailies as quick as possible. At least that would have been the case for me if I was still playing! :P Waiting for a future patch or x-pac to bring me back ^.^

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 11:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    I play on a PvE server, and I don't want to deal with this no-flying bullshit that serves absolutely no purpose on my server.
    I'm with you on that!

    You know maybe make it no-flying on PVP servers, and flying on non-PVP servers? I'm sure they could work something like that out since that seems to be what PVPers want and non-PVPer's want.

  12. #172
    People flew all over outland in BC, people always engaged in world pvp at Halaa and in Hellfire. The issue has nothing to do with flying mounts and everything to do with players wanting to world pvp, places with real objectives to world pvp in, and real rewards coming from the effort.

  13. #173
    Location: PVE Server (US-Perenolde)

    Flying vs. PVP aside, I cannot understand for a moment the PVE crowd here complaining about having to kill mobs to achieve their goals. Part of the challenge of completing dailies is dealing with the Environment in PVE. If they follow the logic some on here suggest, we might as well be mailed the rewards after accepting the quest. After all, why should we have to do anything to earn stuff in game, right?

    Ugh, I think I need a vacation from the forums, because this level of communication breakdown and entitlement is childish.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Drithiend View Post
    I disagree. Mists was designed clearly as a first step to taking things on the ground once more.

    You can't fly until you get to level 90, and depending on your performance that may take several zones to do so. What is more a lot of variety as to where to quest is offered. That means that almost all the zones in Pandaria have been designed so a player can play in them without being able to fly.

    That takes a lot of work. Work that an entire developing team won't commit to, to satisfy just one person's opinion. Especially Ghostcrawler's who is not the one responsible for questing and world design, his priorities are things like the UI. This is an opinion shared by most of the developing team. It's the only way it would ever make it into the game. Ghostcrawler was just the one that transfered that message to the community.

    And anyway, flying won't go away most probably, which is not even this thread's focus. At most, it will partially be available in new content. New content as in next expansion. For instance, some zones will allow it and some won't. So both flying and ground mounts will be of use. Why is it that people almost always refer to the excesses of a concept, when most of what actually happens is somehwere in the middle? Is being a drama queen so enticing? (not directed that the person I quoted but a general observation looking at this and similar threads about almost everything)
    You can't disagree that it was his personal opinion and not the official Blizzard stance. Read his tweet. He says PERSONALLY

    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...39411524182016

  15. #175
    I dont know where this ideal of forced open world pvp on pve servers on the island thing is coming from. I have read many articles on PTR thunder isle experiences and none of them mention open world PVP, none the less on a PVE server.

    If you don't want to do PVP you don't have to unless you are already on a PVP server. If you are on a PVP server then you are okay with PVP.

  16. #176
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Edlarel View Post
    Location: PVE Server (US-Perenolde)

    Flying vs. PVP aside, I cannot understand for a moment the PVE crowd here complaining about having to kill mobs to achieve their goals. Part of the challenge of completing dailies is dealing with the Environment in PVE. If they follow the logic some on here suggest, we might as well be mailed the rewards after accepting the quest. After all, why should we have to do anything to earn stuff in game, right?

    Ugh, I think I need a vacation from the forums, because this level of communication breakdown and entitlement is childish.
    It's more like, why shouldn't we be able to use our hard earned flying mounts?

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    I'm not sure where I'm trying to state my opinions as facts, but ok. If you say so.

    At any rate, while there certainly is room for personal opinion in what someone finds fun and what isn't fun, there are also things which are proven to be generally good game design choices. Flying mounts and what they entail is not one of them. Or well, they were back in TBC, when they were expensive and only given at the very end of your journey. But now that they're an expected part of your repetoire from a relatively early point of your journey through the game, they're pretty terrible.

    Essentially, games (and RPGs in particular) are about gaining power. Journeying through the world, struggling against enemies, getting stronger as a result. One of the rewards for your struggles is the power gain itself, and the relative strength you now have against those foes you struggled against previously. It's rewarding to be able to go back and destroy the enemies who gave you a hard time previously. On a similar note, flying works into this by being the reward for struggling through on foot at first. Instead of taking ages to travel, you can now fly over everything with ease. Great!

    Except now, you get rewarded with flying far too early, at level 60. 1-59 really doesn't take long. So now, instead of being a reward, it's an expected part of the game. Except in this form, flying doesn't work, because it removes a lot of the struggle, a lot of the challenge which makes RPGs and games in general so compelling and interesting. It's just flying from point A to point B, doing a bit of fighting, then flying to point C, etc.

    So Blizzard replicate the 'reward for reaching the end of your journey' by taking away flying until you reach the new level cap. Then there you go, you're rewarded. That works. But then, level 90 isn't the end of our journey, is it? There's still plenty of progression to go, daily quests to do, etc.

    So they're removed again for these new dailies. They'll probably keep getting removed whenever Blizzard feel able. Because flying mounts are, honestly, a terrible game design decision.
    You said the game is better when you can't fly. That's a personal opinion stated as a fact. This post that I just quoted is chocked full of the same.

  18. #178
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I dont know where this ideal of forced open world pvp on pve servers on the island thing is coming from. I have read many articles on PTR thunder isle experiences and none of them mention open world PVP, none the less on a PVE server.
    That's not the issue for PVE servers, the fact that we can't fly for no reason (other than blizz catering for PVP servers and pissing off the PVE server population) is.

    Tbh, they should remove all PVP gear and gear vendors from PVE servers. Then the people who care so much about PVP will be forced to transfer to a PVP server and PVErs can celebrate and rejoice.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Edlarel View Post
    Location: PVE Server (US-Perenolde)

    Flying vs. PVP aside, I cannot understand for a moment the PVE crowd here complaining about having to kill mobs to achieve their goals. Part of the challenge of completing dailies is dealing with the Environment in PVE. If they follow the logic some on here suggest, we might as well be mailed the rewards after accepting the quest. After all, why should we have to do anything to earn stuff in game, right?

    Ugh, I think I need a vacation from the forums, because this level of communication breakdown and entitlement is childish.
    Unlike f______... doing the same thing time after time after time for 1h daily is boring.

    There is just too much mob to navigate to the objective without spending 20 minutes killing unrelated NPCs.
    Last edited by ipaq; 2013-01-11 at 04:38 PM.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Incorrect. The questing experience from 85-90 is designed for ground mounts, the end game is designed for flying. If it was completely designed for ground mounts then there would be a southern, eastern and western (an open western gate) gate to get to the zones conveinantly without having to go way around through 2 other zones in order to get to them. The questing zones are built this way so you can experience the lore storyline sequentially instead of just flying to the dread wastes. Jade Forest -> 4 winds -> A. Karasang wilds, B. Misty steppes -> Boat tunnel -> Kun Lai -> Townlong -> Dread wastes, also known as level 85 zone -> 86 -> 87 ->88 ->89 ->flying! If they wanted you to ground mount everywhere then Skyrange would be accessable from the ground.
    It would help if you read what I wrote more carefully. I did write that most, not all of the content is designed so that you can do it while on the ground. Dailies and some areas are designed to be played through with flying mounts. Which is the endgame, along with raiding, which includes no mounts. So, you basically disagree with what I said and then state the same thing...

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