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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post

    Apparently everything is fine and tanks aren't doing too much and people are beaten by Tanks on dps have l2p issues.
    Its funny that you only mention fights where there are adds to kill. Any Single target fight that does not have a mechanic for a tank to gain insane damage (I.E Feng with reversal) then a DPS that gets out damaged by a tank needs to re-roll.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 12:38 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post

    GOOD GOD PEOPLE. I am just butthurt that I cant rank top 10
    Fix'd for you.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 12:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Have raided in MoP? Done any heroic modes? My argument is not baseless and I have shown enough proof. There are alot of people backing me up on this. Good dps used to out dps tanks in WotLK and Cata (in TBC tanks did little to no dps), not in MoP. Tanks can get upto 200k or more AP. You cannot outdps anyone with 200k more AP then you, anyone. 200k AP...
    Do you know how vengeance works? If you do not constantly get hit for the amount of damage that is causing you to gain 200k AP, you do not keep that 200k AP. Roll a tank and watch how quick that 200k AP drops back down to maybe 80-90k AP because you are not getting hit for 2 million unmitigated every second.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferstwin View Post
    Its funny that you only mention fights where there are adds to kill. Any Single target fight that does not have a mechanic for a tank to gain insane damage (I.E Feng with reversal) then a DPS that gets out damaged by a tank needs to re-roll.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 12:38 AM ----------



    Fix'd for you.

    You bring no good points to this argument like some other people have done. Don't expect you too. As you said you are tank and enjoying the top ranks disregarding everyone and everything else. GG to you. Now stop posting in my thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    You bring no good points to this argument like some other people have done. Don't expect you too. As you said you are tank and enjoying the top ranks disregarding everyone and everything else. GG to you. Now stop posting in my thread.
    Go cry more. You're just upset that you cant outdamage someone. You are right about one thing. This is a no good point arguement.

  4. #184
    The Unstoppable Force Resentful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferstwin View Post
    Go cry more. You're just upset that you cant outdamage someone.
    I second this mainly a tank learn2 damage imo let me see your profile to even salt the wounds

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    I second this mainly a tank learn2 damage imo let me see your profile to even salt the wounds
    Once again, looking at my gear gives you no imformation about my dps or skill or whatever you think might net you.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 12:47 AM ----------

    People need to start talking about vengeance and stop asking me my armory. Useless data is useless. I have given you world logs. You you ignore them. WTF are going to do with one players armory?
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  6. #186
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Blizz took away a dps' pride
    Pride? Seriously? May I lend you my club so you can find yourself a mating partner?

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    What will my armory tell you? It will show you my gear. That's it. WTF are you going to do with the gear I have? Nothing. My armory gives you no valid information about this topic. Stop asking for useless data.

    I have given world logs on two different websites. You choose to ignore it, but my armory means everything...
    Can you at least tell us what gear each of these tank spec'd people were using? Because gear is everything when doing damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    Murder can be justified and to a certain extent I believe genocide can be justified aswell.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Once again, looking at my gear gives you no imformation about my dps or skill or whatever you think might net you.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 12:47 AM ----------

    People need to start talking about vengeance and stop asking me my armory. Useless data is useless. I have given you world logs. You you ignore them. WTF are going to do with one players armory?
    So we can laugh at how bad you are.

  9. #189
    Well dps, as youve said all through wrath and cata, aoe damage doesnt matter and only single target damage matters, so well there's no reason for you to complain about tanks insane aoe damage now is there

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    So scrub DPS are mad that they are bad and freak out about an issue that was fixed?
    haha pretty much.

  11. #191
    Can we have sensible people start posting in this thread? The current replies just show how downhill the WoW community has gone.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 12:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokiii View Post
    Well dps, as youve said all through wrath and cata, aoe damage doesnt matter and only single target damage matters, so well there's no reason for you to complain about tanks insane aoe damage now is there
    Nobody said that. DPS might have said aoe dps on trash doesn't. Which doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Can we have sensible people start posting in this thread? The current replies just show how downhill the WoW community has gone.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 12:54 AM ----------



    Nobody said that. DPS might have said aoe dps on trash doesn't. Which doesn't.
    I'm a sensible person. I want to see the gear of the tanks beating dps compared to the gear that the dps they are beating is wearing. Stats are useless when taken out of context.

    edit: And they have to be from the same raid, too. Comparing a tank from one raid to a dps in another raid doesn't mean that tank beat that dps. It means the strategies favored tank dps in one fight over the strategy favoring a dps in another.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    Murder can be justified and to a certain extent I believe genocide can be justified aswell.

  13. #193
    I don't mind this either way as long as the encounters are balanced with the tank dps in mind. If this gives them more self-importance, it might also encourage more people to tank.

    I'm viewing the differences in the damage some tank specs are capable of dishing out compared to the others as a bigger problem.

  14. #194
    Vengeance is a horribly implemented mechanic, doesn't make the tanks who can pull dps without it look any better simply because it's there.
    The op, however, is just whiny because he feels useless in a role of "making up the numbers." Well, I don't pity him because in 25s most of the dps just do make up the numbers. Dps should not be there JUST to down a boss, that's a pointless role. They should be cc'ing adds, picking up stacks of scary fog to kill lei shi and other important roles. That's what they should be doing, not simply putting numbers on the board. Perhaps they should rename damage dealers to "Control" so people don't get misguided of the point that dps fill in a raid environment.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    The current replies just show how downhill the WoW community has gone.

    And the current threads show how much the wow community has turned into crybabies.

    Waaaaaaa tanks do more damage then me.. Who really cares, As long as the damn boss dies? Just shut up and be happy you get carried.

  16. #196
    I believe the issue is tanks are doing supremely amount of damage on encounters it craps on DPS and thus in theory renders them useless.
    As has been said countless times already, that is not actually a problem because you can't expect to replicate it with several tanks. DPS are not losing slots to tanks. They are not being rendered useless by tanks. They are not being wronged in any way whatsoever.

    Some seem to have decreed as a sacred moral principle that a tank shouldn't deal damage or be limited to half a DPS or other such arbitrary measure. Well, I have a problem with sacred principles : they're awfully hard to base a reasonable discussion upon. It's pretty much "I am right and why are you morons not seeing it already ?" So if that is indeed the case, please do not come up with an open question as the title of a soapbox thread, it's misguiding and wastes the time of people who mistakenly think you are open to arguments and reason.

    So if we're actually discussing (that means you, too, should come up with more developed arguments than "Because I say so"), here's one thing to consider : tanks doing damage make for a more active and challenging gameplay for a slot that has always been hard to fill. GC made the observation that more tank classes didn't equate an increase in the actual number of tanks in the game. That means the role of tank in itself should be interesting.
    Now with significant damage and active mitigation tanks have active mechanics they can min-max; they can make a very concrete and measurable contribution to the fight as opposed to merely "not dying" (which also depends on the healers) and "moving the boss around" (which doesn't sound particularly enticing to many a potential tank). Holding aggro with non-damaging abilities was fun for pretty much nobody involved.

    Tanks out-DPSing damage dealers ? Yeah, we've seen that, that's what you call a gimmick fight, and there is no reason to fret about gimmick fights. So what ? You would have brought a tank anyway, because you need one no matter what; why not have them doing their part in downing the boss' HP, while we're at it ? It's not like they can solo it and DPS are tagalong tourists.
    If a gimmick hurts your "pride", I think you might have a slightly misplaced sense of pride.

  17. #197
    The Unstoppable Force Resentful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Can we have sensible people start posting in this thread? The current replies just show how downhill the WoW community has gone.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 12:54 AM ----------



    Nobody said that. DPS might have said aoe dps on trash doesn't. Which doesn't.
    We are being sensible, We're telling you to learn to play better. That's being sensible and we all still want your profile to see if you even know your class *giggle*

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    We are being sensible, We're telling you to learn to play better. That's being sensible and we all still want your profile to see if you even know your class *giggle*
    You just won the game.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    On which of the fight outside of windlord does that happen ?
    It doesn't really, hence the phrase "up to" which you conveniently forgot to bold - though I've seen impressive results on Empress, and let's face it, tanks do top meters on fights straight out (so well over 100%).

    Point is, between not tanking and tanking tank DPS is getting a 10x-20x difference (as compared to DPS); what I suggested is to buff tank damage when not tanking much by 4x, and then to reduce the gain by tanking up to 2-3x, from 10-20x. Self-healing would have the same scaling as Live.

    For one example, on Wind Lord, tanks are seeing huge numbers, but also remember that DPS also see big numbers (just relatively much smaller), hence tanks are about doubling DPS by doing 800k-1m DPS. Tank DPS on Wind Lord would go down to about 300-400k by my "solution" - which still isn't an "insignificant" amount of DPS nor "nerfing to the ground" but rather, reducing the spread. Bad DPS will still get beat, but not good ones.

    - also, the fact that tanks scale so incredibly means that tanks basically are far more important for boss DPS/enrage than the DPS, since percentage changes in the main tank's output would make a much bigger difference than percentage changes in a single DPSer's output. So complaints aren't really that unwarranted in that direction.

  20. #200
    100% agreeing with OP, remove vengeance.. Its retarded and tanks shouldnt outdps any decent dps'er. I liked it better when threat actually was a factor in PvE and when stuff like misdirect and tricks would matter to help the tank keep his/her aggro, now threat is just an old mechanic that excists but doesent rly serve any purpose since any lame green tank can just autoattack a boss to get unlimited threat due to retardedly overscaled vengeance.

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